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Krug Throws Parts at His Car: The Thread

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#21
Ooops. I didn't even consider the bolt.

Now that you guys mentioned it, that does sound like a good idea.

Too bad my stuff is already shipped, that's a long trip for a single bolt.

But ... I hate removing sheared bolts from their holes.

Ill just use this as an excuse to buy a few more knick knacks with it [biggrin]
 


koozy

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#24
yeah, space is at a premium especially when the OE clamp is glued on and facing awkward. I think I ended up taking the pipe off and R&R'ing it away from the car.
 


HardBoiledEgg

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#25
I left the little box cause in my head I couldn't sleep. I was always worried the bolt would get sucked into my engine.
 


danbfree

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#26
Don't forget, that the hose and whatnot going back to the firewall pulls right out and you don't need to plug anything back there either.... but nice cheap solution for that, love it! Had I known about one that fit EXACTLY like that I would have done it much cheaper myself that way too!
 


danbfree

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#27
Yup, I twisted and slipped it off the elbow fitting behind the battery.

Not that I'm strapped for cash, but cost was the primary consideration for me on this part. I couldn't see the point in spending $20 minimum for a small aluminum plug. Hell, you can get 32mm aluminum Turbosmart blow off valve blanking plugs that are virtually identical to the symposer delete plugs for about $7 before shipping on SummitRacing.com, and I would have gone that route if I didn't plan on replacing my charge pipes entirely later on.

Also, CanadianGuy has a thread on here wherein he used two barbed PVC insert plugs to block off both the symposer hose and firewall hose for just $4, but those plugs are strangely difficult to source in my area.
Yeah, not even aluminum I paid $20 for the Whoosh silicone one, oh well...
 


TDavis

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#28
I might try this out. Still haven't deleted my sound symposer. Haven't had it annoy me enough if at all so far
 


danbfree

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#29
Deleting the symposer eliminates it as a source of potential boost leaks and has a supposed (read: possibly just placebo) benefit on throttle response. But there are also some guys that are running a symposer with big turbos and no ill effects. In fact, aren't you one? [biggrin]

You can see if the sound difference is worth it to you by simply disconnecting the corrugated hose from the symposer and going for a drive. Doing so will cause no ill effects and will simply prevent the symposer noise from being piped in. Give it a shot!
Yeah, I noticed after tuning and still having it on it got louder with the extra boost, and indeed, isn't annoying, especially knowing it's not some electric noise piped in but a real-time kazoo box to give you some feedback without a loud exhaust. But I did eventually do it and went with a muffler to glasspack swap, which still isn't too loud outside, and I did notice boost response was a bit better right away. I personally think it's worth it for anyone tuned, but you do need a bit of exhaust noise, for some a resonator delete is *just* enough. Some people are so much against it for no *real* reason, they can only use slurs for the term "lame" as their only reasoning, when they are the ones that are lame for hating on it with no real reason at all, hehe...
 


danbfree

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#30
OK, since I never bothered to look at your build thread before, I'll make some quick comments: Agree that EBC Red is the way to go for brake pads, FAR too many people don't realize they actually perform slightly better than the stock performance pads with 95% less dust, people are just too afraid of change and jump on the "stock performance pads FTW" bandwagon without knowing they can get easily just as much performance with a quality ceramic pad... Since I'm in wet Oregon, my car came with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3 all season tires and ceramic OEM pads. If you look up brake pads on RockAuto, the OEM ceramic pads are NOT cheap, almost $80 just for the fronts. They are VERY grabby, don't let anyone say otherwise, they just need to be warmed up before track use to get the full stopping power out of them but then they also have less fade than the stock performance pads. Anyway, at that price, might as well do the EBC Red Stuff.

As far as the turbo, I'm just a hybrid with stock fuel kind of guy. Whether you go Whoosh or X47R (I'm Switzerland on that one) you can easily get 315hp with stock fuel and have very close to stock spool, but if you want to make your car a high speed beast instead, that's your call, I prefer to keep it snappy off the line and out of corners. I personally recommend Dizzy just because his tunes are so smooth and refined. Having both on 93 tunes, I find that Stratified is like a Cobb Stage 3 with slightly better throttle response. Despite the higher peak boost and sounding more aggressive with Stratified, my Dizzy tune actually makes a little more torque and pulls better up high... It's a matter of personal preference but I was especially sold once I saw what Jason (Dizzy) could do with a 100% stock exhaust with a hybrid (315hp on an e20 tune, yes, e20, he found the sweet spot for stock fuel).

On some of the rest of the stuff I have a bit of a differing opinion on, and that's OK, no need to discuss all those, I respect that we make what we will with our cars in how we want it. I will say I think a 4 point lower front brace over 6 point would be perfect and agree it''s important to factor in an LSD once going with a turbo upgrade... do you have any pics or are you 100% stock appearance and don't bother?
 


TDavis

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#31
Deleting the symposer eliminates it as a source of potential boost leaks and has a supposed (read: possibly just placebo) benefit on throttle response. But there are also some guys that are running a symposer with big turbos and no ill effects. In fact, aren't you one? [biggrin]

You can see if the sound difference is worth it to you by simply disconnecting the corrugated hose from the symposer and going for a drive. Doing so will cause no ill effects and will simply prevent the symposer noise from being piped in. Give it a shot!
Yes sir, I knew about the boost leak possibility and such. I haven't gotten annoyed with the drone yet. I might just try it out since it cost near nothing and isn't hard to do. I do like the tight engine note it gives off though compared to other cars.
 


danbfree

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#32
Thanks for the input!

Everything that's listed in black font is what is planned, but plans are always subject to change so don't take any of that to be set in stone. Anything in cyan is "eh maybe" status and likely will not be done. I'm actually not committed to or dead set on any particular turbo upgrade at the moment. I will very likely go with the Whoosh hybrid, to be honest. Stock fitment and stock-like spool is more important to me than having bigger peak output numbers. Another example of possible plan changes is the downpipe - I would like to stay catted and should it get released I will jump on a "V2" Whoosh catted DP with a beefier bracket than the V1. Or maybe stay stock, haha. I love the sound of the Thermal R&D exhaust, though, so that one is a certainty.

As for brake pads - yeah, I like the performance of the stockers, but I was beyond over them by day two of scrubbing my wheels clean. Even if the EBC Reds performed a bit worse than the OEM ones, I'd take 'em just for the lack of brake dust getting everywhere.

And ethanol tunes, I do understand and appreciate the effect that they have on our cars, but I have no interest in them. I grumble enough about mixing oil into gasoline for my two-stroke engines and I have a ratio-rite to make that easy! I don't want to deal with sourcing E85 and calculating appropriate ethanol content for a tune. I MIGHT try an E30 tune in the future, but mostly as a novelty. Until then, it's just gas and go! [burnout]

The LSD will very likely be purchased within a week, and installed within a month or so. I'll be doing it with the help of a good friend who recently did his own transmission replacement on his Chevy Spark, and I've been somewhat obsessively studying the appropriate service literature for this job and acquiring any necessary tools that I don't own. Now, I've heard that once you hit around 380hp in the FiST you can start to run into tramlining (following grooves in the road surface, etc) with an LSD, but I have no plans to push output that high and I want to avoid one-wheel-peels and have better traction overall.

If there is interest, I will try to document the LSD install process.

For the braces, well, if Hotchkis follows through on releasing their own I'll snap those up instead of Pierce. 2-point, 4-point, or 6-point, I've got no skin in that debate but I really like how the 6-point braces look and tie everything together. Now that I think of it, I should probably update the OP to reflect that I did grab one of those $86 Hotchkis RSBs and won't be getting the Pierce torsion bar. [biggrin]

Oh, and to answer your question, yes my exterior appearance is stock besides the mudflaps, so I don't care much about showing it off. It's a white platinum FiST, no different from any other. I like the look of many of the front splitter options we have, but I fear it'd be a ~$200 investment that will be promptly obliterated by a rock or something, as has been the experience of people on here and some others that I know personally.
Nice, I'm partially color blind so I can't make out the different colors that great, maybe if they were bold? :) Or maybe use the opposite colors, I would imagine red to be what is still up in the air/hasn't been done, maybe bold what has been done only? I'm a dork who just kinda left my build in my signature. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to do any more upgrades at ALL for a while, budget just isn't there. 7.5k oil changes done myself and car washes by hand for a while for me. :(

Anyway, mixing ethanol is another of those things that is made out to be far more difficult that it is. You are obviously a bright dude, so to get e20, for example, you literally just add 2 gallons of e85 per full tank, so if re-fueling at 1/4 tank, simply use 1.5 gallons of e85 instead. Ballpark is all that matters, truly, if anything just round up a bit if you want to, the most that will happen is slightly poorer mileage if you use more e85 than you really need, it doesn't have to be exact by ANY stretch of the imagination... BUT, 93 octane is just fine with a hybrid too, of course, just saying it's worth having the e20/30 tune around too for "play time". So many people who have never even tried an e30 tune with their stock turbo just don't realize how much of a difference it makes and how easy it is to "mix".

And congrats on the smart decision of doing the LSD before the turbo, I have heard all the same pro's and con's, can't argue with you there, I'm just personally leaning towards M-Factory. I just don't see where I'll have a front wheel actually off the ground, ever, to expose it's only weakness, so why pay $300-400 more? But to each their own their for sure, just my logic on that one...

Also what about actual suspension? You have some great plans on bracing, any thoughts on shocks/springs/coilovers? Since I have a '17 ('17+ have the slightly softer springs/shocks w/fatter front sway and rear torsion beams) I'm leaning towards trying the Eibach springs alone and see how that does. I want just a very modest drop along with a bit of progressive rate to handle minor road imperfections at least. Also, I want a bit stiffer RMM since I do like the torque of e30 tunes but am unsure what to do. Not only does the durometer rating matter, but if the design is a small (AWR) or large (Cobb/Vudu,etc) bushing, that puts the durometer scale differently... I have a large bushing where both are 75a, so it's a bit stiffer initially than Cobb initially (68a/80a )but not quite as stiff on the secondary. I just wish there was more discussion on all that to help me find my sweet spot. I don't know what my street Powerflex upper mount inserts are technically, but they definitely added just about all the vibes compared to my RMM alone. So at least I know I can go stiffer there without adding much more vibes than I have now, which is where I want to be.

Anyway, great chat amigo, always love to talk cars!
 


TDavis

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#33
Side note about the Thermal exhaust. If you go big turbo the exhaust does get louder but not in a bad way. I can't imagine how iffy it sounds when straight piped and big turbo
 


M-Sport fan

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#34
M-Factory is my preferred choice here as well. Haven't heard a bad word about them. Funny thing is that helical LSDs and the FiST's "torque vectoring" are complimentary. The flaw of helical LSDs is that in an situation where one wheel has zero traction (such as lifting off the ground) they will operate like an open diff. The solution to this is to blip the brakes. This will cause the LSD to "perceive" the rotational/load difference correctly, lock, and operate as it should. Consider that the torque vectoring system reacts orders of magnitude faster than a human driver, and operates by selectively applying braking force... I imagine that you may never run into an "open diff" scenario with a helical LSD in our cars. IIRC, even disabling ESC for fun-time will not disable torque vectoring.
The Autotech Wavetrac DOES address the 'open diff' scenario, despite being a helical/Torsen type diff. [wink]

But yes, it is about the same co$t as the Quaife. [:(]
 


danbfree

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#35
I won't bother quoting again, I'll just touch on my thoughts...

So yes, no actual mixing, you just pump the amount of e85 first and the rest secondly. If coming off a tank with only e10 or e0, then you still change the flash at the pump and just give it 5 minutes of running after before you send it...

As far bad roads, that is exactly why I want to go with Eibach springs, they are the only true progressive rate to help soak up the bad roads. I've heard this same argument before, don't want to lower due to bad roads, do you mean you have really nasty speed bumps or steep driveways that will scrape? The Eibach only drop 0.8" and provide the cushioning for bumpy roads. From what I understand, on pre '17 cars you can get a bit of a bouncy ride but with the shocks softened a bit for '17+, I'm thinking they will be a better match. Owning my car from new, the stock updated suspension was bouncy until broken in anyway, especially the first few thousand miles. Another option to keep stock height may be using Koni Orange where it's like $379 for all four corners but with the Eibach only $229 and progressive, it's very mild drop, shouldn't be a big deal.I'll just make sure to not pull too far into a parking spot, which I already try to do now since our cars are so small anyway. :)
 


danbfree

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#36
Again, will spare you the quote and pics taking up the space... great example pics of the roads, I see what you mean! I'd personally look at maybe using 45 series tires for more tire height for wheel protection too. With Eibach springs being the least aggressive drop available other than *some* coilovers that I believe have adjustment starting at 0.5", you would get wheel well scrape at FULL compression, but how often does that happen? hehe... so yeah there are a number of combination available, I am actually pretty impressed with the stock suspension, I wish there were springs that lowered only .05" but also have the progressive rate to soak up the bumps a bit more smoothly...

And as far as the e30? My state doesn't even have self serve, NOR does the only place in town with e85 even have Premium or even Midgrade to top it off with... so I stop at the e85 station, have to have an attendant pump it for me and run my card on their old slow machine for like $6-9... Then drive a few blocks from there to another station with Top Tier midgrade, wait for the attendant to fill that up, etc... WORTH...EVERY...DAMN...SECOND so I do it whenever I'm in that part of town. If I had self serve and e85 and midgrade or premium all at the same station, I'd be overjoyed on how easy it is to get the big E bump! Yes, it makes THAT much of a difference to me, just like from going stock with 87 fuel to 93 tuned... that much more of a jump to e30 :)
 


Ford ST

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#37
dude doesn't understand you don't want to mix fuels and I get that, because I don't either normally I'm putting gas in my car after work and I'm pissed off. I was just talkin about why I'm not going to lower the car with my Wife, I was driving her to the pharmacy damn kidney stones today in my 2010 Ford Focus and scraped pulling into the parking lot and going back out. If the ST was lowered I would be concerned the front bumper would have nosedived into the entrance.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 


danbfree

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#38
danbfree, I'm 100% with you on the tire sizing. I plan to move to 16" wheels and 45- or 50-series tires for summer. I'm already on 185/60R15 and steelies for winter, since during the winter months the potholes are often camouflaged and I need a wheel and tire combination that will survive or at least be repairable after taking a king-hit from a crater.



It's cool, I can see he's a big fan of ethanol tunes and mixes and I get that. Hell, he might've convinced me to give it a whirl in the future. [biggrin]

Your scrape incident reminded me that I've totally avoided certain businesses around here because their parking lot entrances look like damn skate park ramps! I guess they prefer their clientele to be Jeep/lifted truck owners.
I've never scraped once at stock height, other than accidentally pulling too far into a parking spot and scraped the bumper curb thing maybe twice ever, but I'm seeing now how some people don't have it as good as I do out here I guess. We have some really little annoying bumpy roads here so that's why I actually want the Eibach springs since they are progressive and hope they can soak up those little bumps

And yeah, I'm going to sing the praises of running e30 forever... I mean why bother to do any work on your car, change your own oil, etc. at all if you are too lazy to simply use one pump, hang it up and use another? I personally can't wrap my mind around that, but to each their own, so I just try to explain just HOW much of a difference it makes! :)
 


danbfree

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#39
Relocated the symposer delete plug to the charge pipe and eliminated the rubber hose, per koozy's suggestion. Had to shave some rubber off the plug to get it to fit. Took her out for a test drive, and everything works great!
I had to go back and see what you meant, sorry but that's actually funny how you did that originally, have no idea how that way would even be thought of... I was such a noob to this car and working on it that I had to go look at like 100 pics and installation guides before I even ordered mine so definitely smarter than me there! :) But it does make me wonder if the next size down Dorman plug would work better doing it right on the piping since you had to shave some rubber off, hmmm... I mean, I have the Whoosh silicone anyway but doesn't look good, the top looks kinda warped and whatnot, wish I just went with the aluminum style or a simple plug now.
 


danbfree

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#40
I believe that the aluminum plugs measure 32mm and cap off the rubber hose rather than the charge pipe itself, so that's why that placement was the first one I tried with the Dorman 02601 plug. Worked great, actually! Koozy's placement inspired me, so that's why I decided to go back and change it. I've already picked up a Dorman 02600 plug during lunch today, which seems to be the next size down, for $3 to see if it will do a better job of capping off the charge pipe symposer outlet without modification. If it works, great and I'm still far under the cost of a "legit" symposer delete. If it doesn't work, I can just return it and keep the modified 02601.

Originally, I was just going to keep the symposer on until I replaced the charge pipes (with shiny red ones to satisfy my infantile compulsion), but the symposer drone was getting very annoying and this option is inexpensive and effective, which are both good things in my book.

Edit: Winner winner chicken dinner!
View attachment 20017

Dorman 02600 is the appropriate plug for this application.
Awesome! Glad we have a dialed in part # to recommend and now I can maybe grab one of those and dump my ugly wrinkled looking Whoosh silicone one! You rock man!
 


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