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Will an ST ever make it back to America?

Jerickson88

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#22
I hope that it is so far into the future that I will not live to see it. ;)
I believe Motorsports will always be around, but in the future, your pockets will have to get deeper and deeper to play. I think we are closer to martial law and corralling all the firearms for meltdown before the government collects all cars for scrap and sticks us on AI Mass Trans though! I’ve been wrong before!


Before you know it all the motorsports guys will be wearing “come and take them shirts” with cars instead of guns lol
 


BRGT350

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#23
I don’t think it’s gonna be as soon as some think.
I hope it takes a long time, a really long time. I have heard everything from 5 years to 20 years for autonomy. I do think the electric car thing will arrive within the next few years. The rate Tesla is selling their mediocre and bland Model 3 is really making the automakers change their plans. Who knows how long this take rate will last when the newness and allure of a Tesla drops away. They are outselling BMW and Mercedes in the US and that is concerning for traditional automakers.
 


Dpro

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#25
Lol except Uber and Lyft are speculators pipe dreams neither of them are showing profit. They could be estimated to be worth billions but thats the good old dot com bubble effect. Unit they really show a profit, its all investor BS cash that they are bleeding through at alarming rates.
Valuations mean nothing unless there is a profitability margin to show. So far there is none.
Smoke and Mirrors at this point lol.

They have to turn around soon as autonomous fleets are not so soon as was proven last summer in Arizona. Loll
 


me32

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#26
Lol except Uber and Lyft are speculators pipe dreams neither of them are shwoing profit. They could be estimated to be worth billions but thats the good old dot.com bubble effect. Unit they really show a profit their is investor BS cash that they ar bleeding through at alrming rates. They have to turn around soon as autonomous fleets are not so soon as was proven last summer in Arizona. Loll
Lol
Just like Tesla
 


BRGT350

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#27
While there is a lot of investor BS money behind Lyft and Uber, there is no doubt that it is real money. Yes, it is based on speculation of a future. The automakers want some of that investor money. It was a huge shift when Tesla became valued more than GM. A company that has only existed for a few years, never made a profit, and had basically a single model was worth more than General Motors. Almost over night, the auto industry changed. Huge effort was put on advertising an electric future. Ford went from being a car company to being a mobility company. Products were axed. New products teased. The goal is to get a piece of that speculation investing. It is real money.

Talking to a few people in the industry, not only is the money a huge factor, but so is the aging baby boomers and anti-driving millennial. The two biggest cohorts are out there to be sold to. As the boomers get older, they won't be able to drive but don't want to give up their freedom. The answer, ride hailing, ride sharing, and autonomous. Millenials don't value the car as a status symbol, or a symbol of freedom, or a hobby, or even as a method of transportation. They see it as a nuisance. Car ownership is a hassle. Why own a car when your phone can snag one for you? Why drive a car when a computer can do it for you? Distracted driving is a major issue and it is killing people, but drivers won't get off of their phones. The solution, a computer driven car that will allow drivers to play on their phones. As much as the future sucks, you would be silly not to realize it will happen. The only question is the speed in which it happens. Consumers want the products. Automakers want to make the products. Investors want to invest in the products. There is way too much alignment for it not to happen and for companies not to works towards it.
 


Ford ST

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#28
I think people forget how old Millennials are becoming. It's not a endless generation. 1981-1996. Plenty of people in that age range like cars and enjoy driving.

Companies talk that doesn't mean anything's going to become a reality. I understand you work in this field but my opinion meetings and conferences tend to be a little big headed. At some point real profits have to be made. The Doom of humanity is when we put technology in charge. A lot of very smart people have pointed this problem out the last thing I want is a self driving car that can be hacked.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 


BRGT350

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#29
I think people forget how old Millennials are becoming. It's not a endless generation. 1981-1996. Plenty of people in that age range like cars and enjoy driving.

Companies talk that doesn't mean anything's going to become a reality. I understand you work in this field but my opinion meetings and conferences tend to be a little big headed. At some point real profits have to be made. The Doom of humanity is when we put technology in charge. A lot of very smart people have pointed this problem out the last thing I want is a self driving car that can be hacked.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
I am with you that I don't want a self driving car either, and there are plenty of skeptics and critics who aren't sure of the technology. Equally, there were people afraid of the car a hundred years ago.

Even if you don't believe me, which is fine since I don't know the future and can't possibly know exactly what the future of transportation is, I would suggest following where the automakers are putting their money. Talk is one thing, but moving resources is another. That is a real indication of what a company is doing. Ford has pulled a lot of resources away from traditional gas powered engine development, discontinued almost all of their car product line, heavily investing in mobility. Ford purchased an entire building to build into a center for new transportation development. Either bought outright or heavily invested in an automated driving start-up. GM has another new automated driving start-up venture. Lots of automakers working with and developing ride sharing/hailing companies/technologies. Changing from a typical car ownership model to a rental type model based on much shorter durations than a lease or purchase. A large part of the Willow Run airport has been changed over to become an autonomous proving ground. Follow the money and it depicts the future. You don't see Ford running a fleet of Mk8 Fiestas and ST's around the US. Nobody is photographing camouflaged compact cars driving around Detroit or any of the test areas around the country. No shortage of SUV's, electrics, trucks, and autonomous testing. My assessment could be 100% wrong, and I hope it is, but looking at where the automakers are putting their resources tells a story.
 


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#30
Well, all this money being dumped into meat transport appliances, is pretty much going to utterly murder my two favourite hobbies. RIP motorcycling. RIP driving.

I’m all for tech solutions for societal issues, it just seems to me that without independent AI that functions at least with the thought power of a small dog, all of these manufacturers are pissing money away. The amount of money required to develop pure sentient AI would probably be equal to the world’s entire budget for military spending for a decade. Unless the aim is for virtual trains, which for commuting and freeway driving, wouldn’t be that bad, and far cheaper than autonomous plus independent and individual control systems.

I’m grudgingly accepting of electric drive trains, but energy storage NEEDs to be better than current ICE ranges. If they get to 1000 miles between recharge, and ZERO loss from external temps, with 5 minute charge to max range, sign me up. Until then, it’s a niche market.




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#31
If/when gas his $5 a gallon and the economy is not doing amazing I can see the business case coming back. I don’t expect this to happen any time soon
 


Ford ST

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#32
Well, all this money being dumped into meat transport appliances, is pretty much going to utterly murder my two favourite hobbies. RIP motorcycling. RIP driving.

I’m all for tech solutions for societal issues, it just seems to me that without independent AI that functions at least with the thought power of a small dog, all of these manufacturers are pissing money away. The amount of money required to develop pure sentient AI would probably be equal to the world’s entire budget for military spending for a decade. Unless the aim is for virtual trains, which for commuting and freeway driving, wouldn’t be that bad, and far cheaper than autonomous plus independent and individual control systems.

I’m grudgingly accepting of electric drive trains, but energy storage NEEDs to be better than current ICE ranges. If they get to 1000 miles between recharge, and ZERO loss from external temps, with 5 minute charge to max range, sign me up. Until then, it’s a niche market.




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Not to mention or electrical system cannot deal with the power to charge all these vehicles. Heck some companies try to get you to install a device to cut your AC system off during peak usage. How in the world are we going to charge all of these electrical vehicles?

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 


Jerickson88

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#33
Not to mention or electrical system cannot deal with the power to charge all these vehicles. Heck some companies try to get you to install a device to cut your AC system off during peak usage. How in the world are we going to charge all of these electrical vehicles?

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
I’m thinking on board CNG generator to charge battery, possibly have the electrical motor be self generating like a stator?
 


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#34
Not to mention or electrical system cannot deal with the power to charge all these vehicles. Heck some companies try to get you to install a device to cut your AC system off during peak usage. How in the world are we going to charge all of these electrical vehicles?

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
If it comes down to it, I’ll build a wood fired generator... heh..


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#35
I’m thinking on board CNG generator to charge battery, possibly have the electrical motor be self generating like a stator?
Hmmm, raise demand on cng.. what else do we use that for... Currently my gas bill is about $140 CAD per month. $100 for fees, and $10 carbon tax, and $30 for gas.. ugh.

Batteries are shit in the winter. I’m guessing there might be 120 million of us that live where there is real winter(in North America). There needs to be some serious flux-capacitor inventing before the electrics really take over...


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TyphoonFiST

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#36
Not to mention or electrical system cannot deal with the power to charge all these vehicles. Heck some companies try to get you to install a device to cut your AC system off during peak usage. How in the world are we going to charge all of these electrical vehicles?

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
Good point! I like your style....My next thought on top of that is what do we do with all these batteries being produced? I know we can recycle some....but look at all the raw material needed to do it and a way to dispose of it all? you cant just launch a car into the yard with those inside them still. [nono]
 


Jerickson88

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#37
Hmmm, raise demand on cng.. what else do we use that for... Currently my gas bill is about $140 CAD per month. $100 for fees, and $10 carbon tax, and $30 for gas.. ugh.

Batteries are shit in the winter. I’m guessing there might be 120 million of us that live where there is real winter(in North America). There needs to be some serious flux-capacitor inventing before the electrics really take over...


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Basic generator By Michael Faraday



Maybe a gas engine that kicks over to charge the battery when the voltage gets too low? Is it impossible to think that thru a gearbox assembly that we can’t make an electric motor charge itself?

Also keep in mind that starting amperage is higher than it is when it’s running consistently


Of course I’m describing a hybrid vehicle.. someone just needs to make a universal design to widely commercialize and flood the market..


I like my fun sporty little cars, but to see technology progress is also neat. If they can flood the market, their cost will decrease. I also work in a specialized field. I am a Service Tech for Forklifts and other material handling units, and we can just about charge what we want. We are competitive inside our own industry, but this differs from automotive in the fact that there’s service companies, not Ma and Pa shops or shade tree guys that you can just swing your lift by on the way home from work. So that by default makes hybrids expensive by saying they have to go to certified shops, so when these cars are produced they have to get every dime they can out of the sell because not as many are being put on the road.
 


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#38
Basic generator By Michael Faraday



Maybe a gas engine that kicks over to charge the battery when the voltage gets too low? Is it impossible to think that thru a gearbox assembly that we can’t make an electric motor charge itself?

Also keep in mind that starting amperage is higher than it is when it’s running consistently
Hybrid?[emoji6]

I don’t think that generating power is the bottleneck for electric ubiquity. Storage is the issue. Current batteries suck for cold weather use, suck for their rare earth element constituents, suck for electrical demand from the grid, suck for durability, suck for volume of production(if we experience a mass ban on hydrocarbons), suck for disposal, suck for the odd electrical fire(not a huge issue currently, but will spike if even a 10% take rate becomes the norm).

And they want these things to think for themselves!

The present rate of investment by manufacturers is huge, but it feels like a drop in the bucket relative to what it would require to fully embrace electrical propulsion. Not to mention the infrastructure investment and political will needed to turn our backs on what has been a cash cow for public investment and political “investment” for a century. The current rise of populism is a massive roadblock for the global implementation of policy that would be needed to completely change the present conditions into something that functions favourably for a global transportation paradigm shift. Auto manufacturers are hedging their bets, but it sure seems like a candle in a hurricane to me.

More on topic, I’m sure that there will be electric ST/RS models coming, but Ford better remember what the ST/RS formula has been, or it’ll turn into just another badge slapped on to fat raised minivans. Which, seems to me, is where their current leadership is heading. Even if they try to market Edge ST and Escape RS, and (puke) Ecosport ST, they better capture the JOY and Tossabilty that has been the earmark of ST/RS up till EDGE ST. Which, by the reviews, is just an Edge Sport(which they damn well should’ve left as its name), that isn’t any faster, or funner than any other Edge Sport, yet rides harsher... dumb.


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#39
I’m thinking on board CNG generator to charge battery, possibly have the electrical motor be self generating like a stator?
Is it impossible to think that thru a gearbox assembly that we can’t make an electric motor charge itself?
Maybe I'm not understanding these questions (or it's rhetorical), but literally almost every single motor can also serve as a generator.

Example: Tesla's induction motor or practically any permanent magnet motor.
 


Jerickson88

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#40
Maybe I'm not understanding these questions (or it's rhetorical), but literally almost every single motor can also serve as a generator.

Example: Tesla's induction motor or practically any permanent magnet motor.
Yes and no. So basically Golf carts require a stand-alone charger. If we have the ability to recharge batteries based off of the motor used for propulsion, why are hybrid cars even a thing? Why isn’t this already being implemented? Maybe it is and I don’t know.
 


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