Bar and Plate vs. Tube and Fin

[ron@whoosh]

I met George Spears and his wife at his shop located in Van Nuys in the '90s and used his core on my A2 GLI custom turbo with a Turbo Technics manifold as a base. Before Van Nuys they were located in West LA on Olympic.

In the 90s the choices were slim. You had HKS, Greddy a few other import options and Spearco. For the ease of application I went with Spearco and supported a local business who was supporting the booming local import aftermarket turbo scene. I had no issues with Spearco or their intercooler, but the industry has evolved since then and so have technological advancement with heat extractors/exchangers.

Garrett as it pertains to the Fiesta ST platform has set the bar. All things considered their GTX2860R Gen 2 is the most popular big turbo option many seek with it's proven performance and reliability. Garrett has been around along time servicing the aviation industry. The only other turbo mfg. I would consider their competition is Borg Warner.

I ran that same Spearco core on my 2006 Mazdapeed6
Was one of the first to fab up a front mount vs the top mount intercoolers they were equipped with from the factory
I could be wrong but remember that core being huge with the 1G Eclipse and Talon folks

 

[koozy]

Yep, same core with the 1g crowd back in the day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dpro]

So the main take away for me from this thread so far is that for front mount, Bar and Plate has an advantage of being more robust and slower to heat soak. Tube and Fin have better flow and will cool back down faster once it is heated.

Am I missing anything big?

I am also kind of figuring, 1..most any somewhat popular FMIC will better than what I have up front now, and 2...a lot of it depends on preference and intended use of the car.

Again...am I missing the point?

I still welcome any input...…"Knowing is half the battle" or something.

On the Robust front while it might be so is the trade off worth it to you. Sacrifice efficency in favor of somthing that may or may not be a bit more Robust?
As far as heatsoak goes I personally would prefer a intercoole that if it does heatsoak cools down quciker because that means less downtime. Remember if the cooler takes longer to heatsoak it means when it does it will take longer to cool down.

As far as being better than stock yes almost anything aftermarket name brand will be better than stock. Ford did not put in a intercooler large enough to handle higher temp regions of the world.

While the intercooler might be fine in say Britain or Germany , parts of the U.S. and places like Australia its a completely different ballgame.

So ya unless you plan on going big Turbo, or doing a lot of track time a Mountune would be better than stock.
I do know a guy with a Hybrid Turbo here in SoCal that has run Angeles crest and the canyons with a Mountune though it has not been as adequate as he needs he has managed it.

So ya lots more options purchase wise for Bar and Plate if want to be cheap like it seems a lot of the current gen of FiST owners seem to like.
Tube and Fin less options but some excellent ones if you do your homework and don’t expect stuff to be handed to you on a Silver platter. Lol

In the end the choice is yours it may not jive with my choice but thats ok . It’s your decision, I only put out the info for you that I have gathered and learned picking my options.

 

[Sekred]

If I buy a Intercooler I want to know 2 things.

One, the thermal efficiency in percentage by measuring the temp difference between the inlet and outlet of the IC. Compressor outlet temps are around 150c with the stock turbo and no mods. Hybrid turbos running higher than stock boost pressures will be 150c plus.

Pressure drop across the core at a set CFM relative to the engine I would be installing the IC on, let say 500CFM which would be plenty for most with a ST including BT applications.

Unfortunately I can't think of one manufacturer that provides that type of information. I see some suppliers saying something like " its good for 500hp" but I have really no idea what that type of statement is suppose to mean?. To me its complete BS.

Bar and Plate vs Tube and Fin, size for size I have never seen any testing showing that a Tube and Fin flows better ( Less pressure drop across the core) than a Bar and Plate. Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. Fin design is not rocket science but quality counts meaning you can't compare a cheap Chinese Bar and Plate to a quality Tube and Fin and expect an accurate result.

The rest of the thread I agree with, time to heat soak and cool down, weight advantage and damage from road conditions.

Link to a article written by someone who has done hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing and R&D.

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

 

[TyphoonFiST]

If I buy a Intercooler I want to know 2 things.

One, the thermal efficiency in percentage by measuring the temp difference between the inlet and outlet of the IC. Compressor outlet temps are around 150c with the stock turbo and no mods. Hybrid turbos running higher than stock boost pressures will be 150c plus.

Pressure drop across the core at a set CFM relative to the engine I would be installing the IC on, let say 500CFM which would be plenty for most with a ST including BT applications.

Unfortunately I can't think of one manufacturer that provides that type of information. I see some suppliers saying something like " its good for 500hp" but I have really no idea what that type of statement is suppose to mean?. To me its complete BS.

Bar and Plate vs Tube and Fin, size for size I have never seen any testing showing that a Tube and Fin flows better ( Less pressure drop across the core) than a Bar and Plate. Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. Fin design is not rocket science but quality counts meaning you can't compare a cheap Chinese Bar and Plate to a quality Tube and Fin and expect an accurate result.

The rest of the tread I agree with, time to heat soak and cool down, weight advantage and damage from road conditions.

Link to a article written by someone who has done hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing and R&D.

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

Very nice read! Good info!

 

[Ziegan]

If I buy a Intercooler I want to know 2 things.

One, the thermal efficiency in percentage by measuring the temp difference between the inlet and outlet of the IC. Compressor outlet temps are around 150c with the stock turbo and no mods. Hybrid turbos running higher than stock boost pressures will be 150c plus.

Pressure drop across the core at a set CFM relative to the engine I would be installing the IC on, let say 500CFM which would be plenty for most with a ST including BT applications.

Unfortunately I can't think of one manufacturer that provides that type of information. I see some suppliers saying something like " its good for 500hp" but I have really no idea what that type of statement is suppose to mean?. To me its complete BS.

Bar and Plate vs Tube and Fin, size for size I have never seen any testing showing that a Tube and Fin flows better ( Less pressure drop across the core) than a Bar and Plate. Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. Fin design is not rocket science but quality counts meaning you can't compare a cheap Chinese Bar and Plate to a quality Tube and Fin and expect an accurate result.

The rest of the tread I agree with, time to heat soak and cool down, weight advantage and damage from road conditions.

Link to a article written by someone who has done hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing and R&D.

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

I have been reading that article. It's a lot to absorb but does seem worth the read.

 

[Dpro]

I have been reading that article. It's a lot to absorb but does seem worth the read.

Ya that ARE article is great. I had read it in the past and it had a big influence on my intercooler choices. Those guys have been doing it a long time.

 

[koozy]

As far as Garrett is concerned I was long a proponent of their Turbo’s built feel the Borg Warner EFR series has eclipsed them.
I don’t know if anyone has tried to adapt a EFR series to our car.It is funny though as the factory Turbo is a Borg Warner if I recall correctly. Therefor stuff like the Revo is based off the Borg Warner design.

Hey, you should pick up the Revo RT330. They're real popular right now

Remember Crazy Gideon? "you can get them cheap! low low price" LOL

 

[Dpro]

Hey, you should pick up the Revo RT330. They're real popular right now

Remember Crazy Gideon? "you can get them cheap! low low price" LOL

Lol comedian you are. Actually future plans are looking at AET “Vudoo Inside” lol

 

[alexrex20]

Are they forged?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk