Drove a 2019 GTI Rabbit edition today. Thoughts inside

[CSM]

Not actively looking for a new car, but with my Fiesta ST paid off and gaining in age and mileage ('14 w/ 60k), I've somewhat considered moving up to a GTI, a civic Si (or type R), or maybe even looking for a Focus RS in good shape.

Anyways, ever since the rabbit edition of the GTI was introduced, I've been intrigued. Its a $1,300 package over the base GTI ($29790 MSRP) that gets you a cool paint job, black trim on spoiler, sidemirrors and wheels, and special plaid interior with rabbit logos throughout. I drive by a VW dealer every day and noticed they had one on the lot, so I said what the hell and pulled in for a test drive.

Urano gray with black wheels, and six speed manual.

Thoughts:

• MUCH more refined and roomier than the Fiesta ST. Its extremely noticeable how better the build quality is and interior components. Very comfortable, much less road noise. Would be a great daily driver car and for long distances.
• Engine has a lot more low end grunt than FiST, more torquey and you can definitely tell the Sport mode wakes up throttle response and engine/exhaust noise. Guy at the dealer was telling me with a simple APR tune these 2.0 VW motors will easily hit 300hp/300tq.
• Handling is pretty neutral, more body roll than FiST. It is not nearly as playful as the FiST stock, which tends to lift-off oversteer. I did like the LSD and the brakes though, much better than FiST

I once read that the FiST is the playful, eager puppy of hot hatches. Always eager to please. Always ready to go. Always wants to have fun. The GTI is a much more grown up hot hatch. Its more comfortable, a much nicer car overall, and faster too. But it just didn't bring a smile to my face like my FiST always does when I hop in and turn the key.

I'm not convinced any of the new hot hatches do as good of a job as the FiST in the fun department. The GTI was nice, don't get me wrong, but for $30k, I was hoping for much more fun experience than what I had on my test ride.

 

[RubenZZZ]

And thats the issue: the FiST is so much fun that other hot hatches seem boring.

I test drove a FoST a few months ago when my lease was almost up. It definitely felt more powerful, but it wasnt as lively as the FiST. Im sure some mods would make it even better, but i couldnt pull the trigger...that and my lease buy-out was like $12K vs $25K for a nicely loaded FoST.



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[M-Sport fan]

Are those front brake calipers just sliding deals with really fancy covers on them??

 

[Intuit]

Nice wheels and pretty calipers; color scheme is okay, but the styling and shaping is a little "off". One of the first things I'd want to do cosmetically is de-badge that front grill. (and I've left the FiST alone other than removing the front plate bracket and upgrading the lighting)

 

[Intuit]

A 2.0L with 228hp, the engine is 20% larger, but with only 14% more HP. But that 14% more HP does, best the 12.4% more poundage. (3,128 lbs vs FiST 2,743)

 

[CSM]

A 2.0L with 228hp, the engine is 20% larger, but with only 14% more HP. But that 14% more HP does, best the 12.4% more poundage. (3,128 lbs vs FiST 2,743)

If I were to purchase a GTI I'd get the APR Plus tune (think Mountune MP215 for GTIs...warranty friendly tune that dealer installs). 290hp/330tq. The tuning potential on the newer 2.0 TSI is pretty nuts from what I hear

 

[Intuit]

FoST is 252/270 at 3,241 lbs... a 113 lb difference... versus the 385 lb difference with the FiST. In addition, the FoST also has a 2.0L engine.

What really shows that the FiST is good more than anything, is the fact that everybody keeps comparing to significantly larger vehicles... and in many cases, still favoring the FiST. https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/19761-Fiesta-ST-vs-Veloster-N?p=342333&viewfull=1#post342333 But of course, the reverse would probably be true if the people on the other respective forums are comparing to the FiST. There's an inherent amount of bias here. But I truly do favor the size of the FiST. It's not too big, not too small. (note: the did cramp the front passenger a bit to make the driver more comfortable)

 

[JSWhaler]

Prior to my ST, I had a GTi with APR packages etc. It was fun, faster, and handled better (suspension upgrades), but it was a bit more muted in feeling. Of course build quality was better, but it doesn't have that visceral experience the ST does. Also keep in mind that everything for the VW was roughly twice the cost maintenance wise; even when doing it yourself. Honestly, I'd still be happy with my GTi, but the wife said ok on a new purchase and it was a done deal. Besides, the kids still fit in the back.

 

[CSM]

Prior to my ST, I had a GTi with APR packages etc. It was fun, faster, and handled better (suspension upgrades), but it was a bit more muted in feeling. Of course build quality was better, but it doesn't have that visceral experience the ST does. Also keep in mind that everything for the VW was roughly twice the cost maintenance wise; even when doing it yourself. Honestly, I'd still be happy with my GTi, but the wife said ok on a new purchase and it was a done deal. Besides, the kids still fit in the back.

Any regrets?

In one of my local ST groups' facebook pages, lots of people going from ST to GTI, not the other way around

 

[Intuit]

They're going from 252/270 at 3,241 lbs to 228/??? at 3,128?

 

[JSWhaler]

Any regrets?

In one of my local ST groups' facebook pages, lots of people going from ST to GTI, not the other way around

The only regret I have is that for daily usage it is a little bit smaller inside and the fuel. I am a competitive cyclist and typically have a bike on/ in car 4 days a week. With the GTi, I could fold the rear seats down, take off the front wheel and put my bike in with plenty of extra room for other stuff. In the ST, same procedure, but it's quite cramped. However, on both cars I have/ had a hitch install. The ST's hitch mount is almost 2"s higher than the GTi's meaning I don't scrape.
Secondly, although the ST gets better mileage, the tank is smaller causing me to fill up what seems more often (maybe placebo).
Lastly, my kids have complained that the back seat is smaller and that they don't have the pull down armrest, but they got over it.

 

[theblue]

I came from an A3 daily driver to the fiesta ST last year. The older I get, the more I laugh when people call luxury boring. I absolutely miss the luxury and power (area under the curve is what matter more than comparing peak numbers). My 2006 A3 had apr stage 2 (downpipe + tune) and made 270/320tq. It was an awesome car.

I love how my fiesta ST is a weapon when driven correctly thanks to the weight, but some days you wake up and don't want to have the only radio station be punk rock

 

[CSM]

Random update:

Looks like the new 6 speed manual transmission GTIs are having serious problems with stalling. 150+ confirmed cases so far, mostly stalling at low speeds but looks like some reports of highway speeds too. It is being escalated to NHTSA as VW does not have an answer for why it is happening and are actively buying back vehicles left and right.

Theories are that it has to do with thinner oil specs for this year along with an ECU update....cars are reportedly advancing timing so far in certain situations that it's leading to the engine cutting out and stalling.

So for anyone considering a 6MT GTI, wait until they are fixed. I was tempted to go look at a couple Rabbits recently as I've read they are selling for $26k out the door at some dealers, but I am going to hold off for a while until this is fixed.

 

[jmrtsus]

The warranty is a joke compared to the Ford Performance/Mountune, it is a third party deal and even states sometimes you have to pay for the repairs and apply for reimbursement. It also negates your VW factory powertrain warranty and is not legal in Cali. Also says they decide how much to pay and do not have any data on how much they pay for certain repairs.You must return to the dealer where you bought it or another APR dealer for repairs. With the Ford/Mountune warranty stuff Ford covers it at any Ford dealer. The VW reliability and repair costs makes it a no Bueno for me. Not to mention the APR shop near me is an independent service shop not a VW dealer. Thank goodness for FiSt's!

 

[HBEcoBeaST]

I was so set on a GTI until I talked to local owners. They all had a long list of unique problems they'd each had on the platform. Most of it was covered by warranty but they were really nervous to mod them in case something else broke and they'd have to take it in. I even heard of two people running piggyback JB4s and the dealer denied the warranty claim because they could detect the chip.

With basic bolt ons these GTIs are putting down 300whp+/300+ft lb on E blends. I really like the interior and ride quality. The AUDI numb feeling can be dialed out with chasis stiffening, suspension and wheel upgrades. BUt I'd never own anything I wasn't confident in it's reliability. I need something I can mod and I'd be hesitant to risk it's warranty. Plus I commute at off hours and getting stranded isn't fun.

The FiST is the most fun street legal car I've driven. Minus a couple things like air door blend actuators and the cooling system recall, everything else can be fixed or tuned to the owner's preference. And for not that much $$$.

 

[Hypergram]

My dad just bought a new Rabbit. Sucks to hear about their issues. :/

 

[Wes7]

I just sold my 18 GTI and got a FiST. Everything JSWhaler said is on point. The GTI is undoubtedly a nicer car, and the ergonomics are a lot better - everything falls to hand nicely, the seats are great, and the driving position is better. It is also quicker than the numbers look. I recall a few folks dynoing stock cars and finding them to be underrated, and seeing a thread where FoST owners found stock GTIs stiffer competition than you would expect. Some of that may be the DSG, which is excellent. It is the perfect answer to the “hey car guy, what car should I get?” question. It does everything well. It did family stuff as well as my wife’s Tiguan, it was sporty without being punishing, quick without being thirsty, and comfortable without being soft.

And that was the GTI’s problem for me. It was so polished it lacked any real personality. I’m sure you could fix that with mods, but like the car itself, those are more expensive - a downpipe was over $1000 in most cases. And as was mentioned, you lose that super-long warranty on an expensive-to-repair car.

The FiST’s interior is weird and sad in comparison, it is cramped inside, and the build quality is laughable; but it is a riot on wheels. The steering is sharp and communicative. The size penalty pays off with the feeling you can put the car anywhere in a corner or in traffic. It isn’t as nice, but everything for it is so cheap that I don’t have to worry so much that I’m going to break something by modding or going to the track.

They are both great cars, but if you are the kind of person that likes the FiST, I doubt you’ll fall in love with a GTI. I wouldn’t be surprised to find a lot of the folks who “upgrade” back in the market in a year or two. I sold my GTI primarily for financial reasons after having my second child, but I wouldn’t trade back given the option.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I’ve owned enough VAG products to decide I never want to own another modern vw without a warranty lol

Another consideration for modders is that vw tends to build with just enough clutch for stock power levels, meaning those easy apr flashes usually mean a clutch in your near future.

Dsg’s are great now that they behave in traffic. First gen dsg’s in traffic were... not smooth.

One of my favorite vw’s was a.... 2008? Vw golf 2.5 5 cylinder. Super reliable and a really neat engine sound, did its job of lugging server equipment while being easy to park admirably. I beat and neglected that car and it just kept taking it. I’ve also owned a few gti’s and I do not know whom at vw signed off on the plastic intake manifold but they deserve a beating.

 

[jeff]

Great thread.

I drove a GTI and Golf R before purchasing my Fiesta back in 2015. Everything everyone says here is exactly how I felt. Great cars, super luxurious, fast, etc. But (even with the R and my buddies S3 which is comparable) after driving those cars I just felt the experience was vanilla.

Drove the FiST shortly after those test drives, instantly felt something was special, the cheap interior and quirky nature didn't matter. Price wasn't as much an issue for me, but it did help that the FiST was significantly less than the VW products. And reliability.

 

[CSM]

Great thread.

I drove a GTI and Golf R before purchasing my Fiesta back in 2015. Everything everyone says here is exactly how I felt. Great cars, super luxurious, fast, etc. But (even with the R and my buddies S3 which is comparable) after driving those cars I just felt the experience was vanilla.

Drove the FiST shortly after those test drives, instantly felt something was special, the cheap interior and quirky nature didn't matter. Price wasn't as much an issue for me, but it did help that the FiST was significantly less than the VW products. And reliability.

Jeff I think I'm gonna go your route and keep the FiST and get a fun daily beater.

*Searches for Preludes and Civic Si*