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2016 FiST Dyno Run (Stock vs Livernois Motorsports) - 219whp / 277tq

OffTheWall503

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#1
I ran my car at the dyno today at a local performance shop. I just want to start with saying that I believe my base numbers are a little high and possibly over compensated. I am more using these numbers to point out the gains I had with the Livernois Motorsports tune. The shop normally charges $75 for 3 pulls. I asked if they would be kind enough to allow me the opportunity to compare stock numbers, so they let me do 4 pulls today which was 2 stock and 2 tuned. I know this isn't the most accurate of methods, but I didn't want to pay $150 for two sets of (3) pulls. The best results showed gains of 14.5hp and 38.2tq (comparing best for best runs). All the pulls were done in 4th gear.



Stock pull results




All 4 pulls. I think the 4th run was dealing with heatsoak issues


The last dyno pull
[video]https://youtu.be/gpPb95DEvwY[/video]

Mods at time of dyno:
- Breedt RMM
- Cobb drop in air filter
- CFM symposer delete
- CFM valve cover breather
- Mishimoto oil catch can
- Mountune lower hard charge pipe
- Denso ITV22 spark plugs
- Livernois Motorsports 91 octane tune (on last 2 pulls)

1st pull (stock tune) - 205.2hp and 239.3tq
2nd pull (stock tune) - 202.7hp and 234.6tq
3rd pull (Livernois Motorsports tune) - 219.7hp and 277.5tq
4th pull (Livernois Motorsports tune) - 201.9hp and 265tq (I suspect heat issues with stock IC)
 


me32

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#2
Thats a great increase. Is this on 91 or 93 octane. Upgrade that IC
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #3
91 octane. And I plan on getting a new FMIC soon, just wanted to take this opportunity to get baseline numbers. :)
 


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#4
Thanks for getting the back to back pulls to show the true gains the Livernois tune provides OffTheWall503! People can't argue when its the same dyno, same day, same atmospheric conditions, same mods, same octane etc. Lots of people will appreciate what you have done and I suspect Livernois will sell a few more tuners thanks to your post.
 


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#5
Thanks for the Dyno. Nice gains. An FMIC will definitely maintain your gains and possibly allow you to run a little more aggressive timing for better gains if LMS has not already done it w/in the tune.

91 octane. And I plan on getting a new FMIC soon, just wanted to take this opportunity to get baseline numbers. :)
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #6
Thanks guys. I'm happy with the outcome for being "stock" and just flashing a tune. The shop has just told me they use a Dynocom dyno which is very similar to a Dynojet and is built in the USA.

For what it's worth also, I'm actually running 92 octane with their 91 tune. Livernois claims this will get you "near 93 octane" numbers.
 


LILIKE16ST

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#7
Thanks guys. I'm happy with the outcome for being "stock" and just flashing a tune. The shop has just told me they use a Dynocom dyno which is very similar to a Dynojet and is built in the USA.

For what it's worth also, I'm actually running 92 octane with their 91 tune. Livernois claims this will get you "near 93 octane" numbers.
Very solid numbers. Can't say I'm surprised this tune is beast. I'm running 93 octane fuel with their 93 tune with nothing but a k&n drop in for power mods outside of that and I hope to do this soon as well and I can add to the before and after dyno party. I need to speak with my local shop and see if I can work something out!
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #9
In response to your post and the other in the LM thread asking if it's better than the Stratified tune.

"Better" is subjective. Do I feel it's more powerful? Yes, I think so. Drive-ability is great, smoother shifting, feels like it pulls harder. I did not run at the dyno with the Stratified tune so I can't attest to which one gives more power but I feel that Livernois does from my experience of spending almost a week with the LM and about 2 months with the Stratified prior.

And yes, I sold the AP3 and bought the LM tuner off a member here. Basically I sold the AP3 for the same price as the purchase of the tuner and re-licensing with Livernois so I paid nothing out of pocket to switch over.

The one con here is that the tuner/calibrator itself leaves a lot to be desired. I won't boast that it's great, because it isn't. You basically have the option to return to stock, or flash the 91/93 octane tune. There is no way to live monitor or datalog, which is a huge disadvantage but if you are running a companies tune anyways it shouldn't really matter.

Also, I tried connecting the AP3 while flashed on the LM tune and the AP3 has to be installed to your vehicle to use the "gauges" feature, so you can't go that route if you want to have live gauges, either. So honestly I'm not sure how you would be able to datalog while on this tune. When I was on the Stratified tune, I literally placed the Accessport in the glovebox and never touched it again, so this doesn't really make a huge difference for me.

If you are a Protuner I have no doubt the AP3 is better in this case. But if you are looking for the best flash tune while stock or with some mild bolt-ons, Livernois may be the best option for the most power. I'm willing to sacrifice having some colored display monitoring for more power and better drive-ability.
 


LILIKE16ST

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#11
Me three lol. I had a hard time deciding when choosing a tune and the main hang up for me was obviously how awesome the ap3 is with all its gagitry. I like all the gauges (in particular the boost gauge) and would love to have those features but at the end of the day more power and better drivability trumps the fancy ap3 in my book. Livernois also provides free updates for life so its perfect for someone like myself who wants to throw the tune on now for a big power jump but plans to add more bolt on parts like fmic and downpipe down the road. I figure I can just run this tune which obviously adds more power (and according to those who have used several even better drivability) and I can just add on a boost gauge. As for datalogging back and forth there's not much of a need if the tune is spot on to start with. Livernois motorsports really know their stuff people especially with the ecoboost cars and have been around doing their thing for a long time. I come from the mustang scene so I'm very familiar with them but others coming from the import scene seem to think its Cobb or nothing. This is not a knock on Cobb they're a great company and I'll probably be running some of their parts before its over with. I'm simply stating that the fact they're known in the import scene has a lot to do with why they have more people running their tunes and stuff since a lot of FiST guys come from the import scene and that's what they're familiar with. It seems livernois motorsports is starting to become more known in the FoST and FiST scene and its about time because they really know their stuff. I consider my LMS 93 octane tune like my "secret weapon" out there on the streets it makes my little "stock" FiST not run so "stock" lol
 


fST

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#13
I would like to say thank you to everyone that took their time to share their reviews/commentary! Positive or negative we always want to know how else can we get better?
So I haven't responded yet to the actual gains received on the OP's car in either thread. I was sort of waiting for someone else to mention this but still no one has, so maybe this is just me and I'm missing something. I understand every car is different and every car may respond differently to mods. The OP didn't seem to get the gain that the original person got on the official Livernois tune thread. Neither did the 2nd dyno comparison I saw from another poster a while ago. So, I'm interested to hear any thoughts from you on what I just said and any thoughts on the OP's graph, if you don't mind. I also understand that the OP is using a 91 octane tune, however, I personally was still expecting to see a higher gain, since it was said before that the 91 octane tune would be only slightly less than 93 tune I believe.

I asked in the other thread about a custom dyno tune but apparently that wouldn't change much to be worth it over getting this remote tune. So basically I'm wondering if the gains on the original Livernois tune car is an anomaly or something. This is also making me wonder if a custom tune using Cobb's AP would net about the same gains as the Livernois tune. I'll have to dig around and look at some of the dyno graphs from others with custom tunes to get an idea on that. Any response with your thoughts is greatly appreciated. I was sold on the Livernois tune but this is sort of making me want to look at other options for custom tuning with the Cobb AP.

ETA: I just re-read the thread and read that the OP's numbers should be pretty close to 93 octane.
 


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Nice dyno comparison, for sure the Livernois tune is effective. You can see in the 4th pull that right at 4k RPM the torque drops dramatically, and based on how the ECU reacts to high IAT's it'll lower the output to stave off additional heat soak. A good FMIC would minimize or mitigate that loss. Also more time between pulls would allow the heat to dissipate.

Thanks for sharing. To me more than anything it emphasizes how inadequate the stock FMIC is.
 


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So I haven't responded yet to the actual gains received on the OP's car in either thread. I was sort of waiting for someone else to mention this but still no one has, so maybe this is just me and I'm missing something. I understand every car is different and every car may respond differently to mods. The OP didn't seem to get the gain that the original person got on the official Livernois tune thread. Neither did the 2nd dyno comparison I saw from another poster a while ago. So, I'm interested to hear any thoughts from you on what I just said and any thoughts on the OP's graph, if you don't mind. I also understand that the OP is using a 91 octane tune, however, I personally was still expecting to see a higher gain, since it was said before that the 91 octane tune would be only slightly less than 93 tune I believe.

I asked in the other thread about a custom dyno tune but apparently that wouldn't change much to be worth it over getting this remote tune. So basically I'm wondering if the gains on the original Livernois tune car is an anomaly or something. This is also making me wonder if a custom tune using Cobb's AP would net about the same gains as the Livernois tune. I'll have to dig around and look at some of the dyno graphs from others with custom tunes to get an idea on that. Any response with your thoughts is greatly appreciated. I was sold on the Livernois tune but this is sort of making me want to look at other options for custom tuning with the Cobb AP.

ETA: I just re-read the thread and read that the OP's numbers should be pretty close to 93 octane.
The power difference based upon octane is going to be approximately +/- 6hp/tq per octane level. So the delta between them makes sense. There is logic that is built into our tuning to detect better octane fuels, and add power accordingly, but a 91 tune will never have the ability to match or surpass a 93 tune in performance.


You can also see that as the car was pulled on in a shorter time frame as the day naturally got warmer power creation was equal and opposite. This again is a natural occurrence.
 


fST

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#16
The power difference based upon octane is going to be approximately +/- 6hp/tq per octane level. So the delta between them makes sense. There is logic that is built into our tuning to detect better octane fuels, and add power accordingly, but a 91 tune will never have the ability to match or surpass a 93 tune in performance.


You can also see that as the car was pulled on in a shorter time frame as the day naturally got warmer power creation was equal and opposite. This again is a natural occurrence.
The gain difference between the OP's car in this thread and the OP's car in the Livernois tune thread is much greater than 6. By percentages, the OP in the Livernois tune thread gained 40% more hp and 40% more tq under the curve and the OP here like 10% and 15% roughly. Just wondering why such a large difference.
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #17
I think the lack of time between runs really did me in and contributed to heat soak. You can see that on my 3rd run I obtained the best numbers immediately after the flash, then did a pull quickly after where torque was still decent but power dropped considerably. The shop sort of "squeezed" me in at the last minute so it wasn't exactly a slow process. I am also on 92 octane, which Livernois says will give numbers close to 93 octane.

I'm sure the other member that posted the gains he had were at Livernois' shop dyno where they took their time between pulls and allowed the car to cool off in between. And if anything, these numbers are still better than what most "stage 1" tunes offer for gains so it's hard to dispute.

Nice dyno comparison, for sure the Livernois tune is effective. You can see in the 4th pull that right at 4k RPM the torque drops dramatically, and based on how the ECU reacts to high IAT's it'll lower the output to stave off additional heat soak. A good FMIC would minimize or mitigate that loss. Also more time between pulls would allow the heat to dissipate.

Thanks for sharing. To me more than anything it emphasizes how inadequate the stock FMIC is.
Thanks Ryephile! Like I mentioned above, that 4th pull gave considerably lower numbers and what you are saying about temps makes sense.
 


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#18
I'm assuming that dyno is calculating probable crank horsepower with that 202 readout stock. 15 hp is a nice power gain on maxed out turbo to begin with.
 


WeTheNorth

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#19
Induction hose next? Why buy the most expense ? U can get one for 70$ or around there
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #20
You have to have one that is 2016 specific because it includes an adapter for the venturi on the factory intake hose.

I got it for about $115 on presale so still a good deal.
 


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