Will E30-E40 Ethanol Blends Damage The FiST Engine?

[Rhinopolis]

I have been doing some reading online and have seen statements that running ethanol in concentrations greater than 15%, can damage valves and other vital engine components unless the engine and vehicle are designated as a flex fuel vehicle. I don't believe that the FiST is flex fuel.

I have ZERO background in understanding this, and I would like facts from more knowledeable forum members. I recently started running an E30 tune, and I am mixing at the pump a blend of 93 octane gas with E85 to get between E30 and E40. I utilize this calculator for my percentages.

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

I am now mildly concerned that I am going to somehow damage my engine by running E30/E40 , and my questions boils down to "will ethanol blends in the E30 to E40 range cause any long term damage to our engines that running pump gas will not?".

Thank you,

Ryan

 

[dyn085]

This was covered in the earlier days of the forum and I believe that the consensus was that the hardware is compatible with ethanol but that it isn't listed as flex-fuel capable because it can't support full E85. I wouldn't sweat it but if you're concerned then you could flush through a tank or two of E0-E10 every so often, utilizing the correct tune to support it, of course.

 

[Wimp Lo]

Almost all new cars are using E85 compatible materials in their fuel system. Manufacturers have figured out that it doesn't make sense to have two types of fuel line or fuel pump.

There are enough people using ethanol blends in EcoBoost engines that it is safe to say that the injectors and high pressure fuel pump are ethanol compatible.

One thing E85 cars may need is a big fuel filter with ethanol compatible media. Most people running blends don't have that but they seem to do fine.

Just make sure you have an ethanol blend tune and you should be OK unless your fuel is dirty or your gas tank is rusting inside.

 

[Rhinopolis]

Answers from the two forum members that I wanted to hear from most. Thanks and I won't sweat the E30/E40 stuff thumbsup

 

[OffTheWall503]

I'd be curious in hearing feedback from people that have been running E85 for thousands of miles. Has anyone logged in over 10,000 to 20,000 miles of constant E85 use?

 

[dyn085]

If you're talking about straight E85 then you're not going to find anyone. I think [MENTION=759]Hijinx[/MENTION] and [MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION] have been running blends for quite a while though.

 

[Wimp Lo]

I think people have been running straight E85 in the 3.5 EcoBoost V6.

I think I heard about that in the Ford Flex crossover SUV.

 

[dyn085]

I think some Chevrolet's are running straight E85 as well.

 

[Hijinx]

I'd be curious in hearing feedback from people that have been running E85 for thousands of miles. Has anyone logged in over 10,000 to 20,000 miles of constant E85 use?

I don't have anything significant to report with a rough guess of 9k on E30.

 

[Rhinopolis]

If we wanted to evaluate the effects of E30/E40 on our engines long term, what specifically would we monitor?

 

[Sourskittle]

I've been running E85 blends ranging from E20 to E60 for appox 35k miles and haven't noticed any issues to running it besides addiction to E85 pumps... I mostly have run E40 or more.

 

[Hijinx]

If we wanted to evaluate the effects of E30/E40 on our engines long term, what specifically would we monitor?

It's an engine. It's going to burn the fuel regardless, so I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the engine itself, aside from letting your car sit for an extended time with e85. There's a small chance it could gel. But, I think that's more of a worry with full E85 and storage over cold winter months.

To be honest with you, I don't really know since I'm not a tuner or engineer. An educated guess as a customer leads me to say you could monitor Fuel Rail Pressure and Low Pressure Fuel Pump PIDs as a starting point. But even then, you'd need some base numbers as a control. It occurs to the limited knowledge I have that the best way to gauge anything would be a physical inspection of the fuel system.

I've never been concerned so I haven't asked any questions. Hopefully, someone has the answers.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I would be far more concerned with the supply lines, tank, etc than the engine itself, those parts area pain in the arse to replace, the engine is fairly easy to swap out and dirt cheap in junk yards.

 

[Wimp Lo]

I've heard reports of E85 sitting in a gas tank for two years in a Mitsubishi Evo with no sign of corrosion or gunk.

That's a California climate and garaged, probably never got below freezing. I have also heard that California E85 is pretty clean and almost always tests at e85.

They went so far as removing the fuel pump to inspect the sock, pulling the injectors (not DI) and inspecting some rubber fuel lines. All was well and even sparkling clean in my opinion (the gas tanks I have looked in have been from 60s muscle cars and filled with crud).

 

[dyn085]

LOL, there's no way a tank of E85 is going to sit stagnant for that long without causing severe issues. It's hygroscopic and will have at least ruined the injectors within a month or two. Nobody with any sense lets a car sit with E85 in it for any extended period of time.

I wouldn't be worried about the hardware either. Ford already makes plenty of flex-fuel vehicles and the majority of the parts on a similar platform are all the same because it makes financial sense. Maybe there's differences in fuel pumps/injectors (for flow) and obviously there's differences in tunes but I doubt any of the common supporting parts would experience any sort of issue on any non-neglected car.

Technology has come a long ways; ethanol isn't something to fear anymore.

 

[Wimp Lo]

Ethanol is hygroscopic but if the air in the tank is dry and the gas cap seals well, it is not going to magicly turn to water.

I agree that sitting a car that long with a tank of E85 isn't a great idea but evidently it is not always disastrous.

 

[Hijinx]

#hygrospcopiclivesmatters

 

[Rhinopolis]

I've been running E85 blends ranging from E20 to E60 for appox 35k miles and haven't noticed any issues to running it besides addiction to E85 pumps... I mostly have run E40 or more.

Awesome, and it seems like nothing that needs to weigh on anyone's mind

 

[Rhinopolis]

It's an engine. It's going to burn the fuel regardless, so I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the engine itself, aside from letting your car sit for an extended time with e85. There's a small chance it could gel. But, I think that's more of a worry with full E85 and storage over cold winter months.

To be honest with you, I don't really know since I'm not a tuner or engineer. An educated guess as a customer leads me to say you could monitor Fuel Rail Pressure and Low Pressure Fuel Pump PIDs as a starting point. But even then, you'd need some base numbers as a control. It occurs to the limited knowledge I have that the best way to gauge anything would be a physical inspection of the fuel system.

I've never been concerned so I haven't asked any questions. Hopefully, someone has the answers.

I read online that ethanol could degrade engine components such as valves, and monitoring the fuel system makes more sense. If we wanted to see if ethanol was having a wear effect on valves, we could use a scope when changing out the spark plugs. Wouldn't the spark plugs also give a visual clue if anything funky was going on in the engine that was fuel related? Just thinking out loud, and based off the answers given so far I am not going to let running E30/E40 bother me as long as I don't let it sit in the tank for too long.

 

[dyn085]

Ethanol is hygroscopic but if the air in the tank is dry and the gas cap seals well, it is not going to magicly turn to water.

I agree that sitting a car that long with a tank of E85 isn't a great idea but evidently it is not always disastrous.

The problem is that the fuel system is not a sealed system, it's vented, and if it wasn't then people would collapse/explode fuel tanks in their cars all the time. From the moment that the fuel is made it's beginning to absorb/adsorb water in the air unless it's kept in a sealed metal 55-gallon drum. Marine engines are exempt from ethanol because of not only their proximity to water but also their frequent storage requirements.

I read online that ethanol could degrade engine components such as valves, and monitoring the fuel system makes more sense. If we wanted to see if ethanol was having a wear effect on valves, we could use a scope when changing out the spark plugs. Wouldn't the spark plugs also give a visual clue if anything funky was going on in the engine that was fuel related? Just thinking out loud, and based off the answers given so far I am not going to let running E30/E40 bother me as long as I don't let it sit in the tank for too long.

I don't think you would be able to see any effect on a regularly driven vehicle. It wouldn't hurt to have a baseline to compare against but as long as the car isn't sitting around for periods of time it should basically act like any other fuel. I would definitely flush through a couple tanks of regular if I planned on taking a vacation, but outside of that I wouldn't treat it any different than regular nor would I anticipate any form of measurable/quantifiable problem-especially considering the fact that it's a lower ethanol blend.