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My adventure with BC coilovers

KKaWing

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#61
Just picked up BC BR at 5kg/3kg combo. Comes with camber plates which is useless because I don't want to drill a bigger hole on my strut tower. Using the phone protractor app, I'm about 2 degree front and 1 degree rear camber which is fine for me by my standard for street use.

Rides a lot more comfy than stock and doesn't bounce as much. I wish for separate dampening adjustment though... A lot more cornering confidence through the local mountain roads too :D
I guess you got the E-29 RA-style, BR-series coilovers? (so many letters @_@). I think we get the E-13 RS-style here with rubber mounts instead.
 


MOFiST

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#62
[MENTION=505]XuperXero[/MENTION] thanks for the feedback. Did you leave the camber plates off? Any install pics?
So I guess you're wanting for separate rebound/compression adjustment? Is the ride still a bit below expectations or why do you want that?

[MENTION=126]KKaWing[/MENTION] this is the set for sale over here in Australia. Are these different to US spec? link
 


KKaWing

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#63
[MENTION=432]MOFiST[/MENTION] Seems so. The main difference is the one you linked gets camber plates.

I base the info on BC's Taiwan/International site.
E-13 RS's http://www.bcec.com.tw/products_app/APP-BR-RS.htm and http://www.bcec.com.tw/products/productsRS.html ("NA" spec)
E-29 RA's http://www.bcec.com.tw/products_app/APP-BR-RA.htm and http://www.bcec.com.tw/products/productsRA.html ("EU"/"ST specific" spec)

Just ctrl+f (search) for fiesta to find the two listings. The "default" spring and dampers are the same between the two. That said, the bottom mount might be different as the E-29's are ST specific, in the listing at least.

Edit: Here is BC North America's application listing, you'll see they use E-13 for all Fiestas http://www.bcracing-na.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BC-application-list-2014.pdf
 


XuperXero

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#64
I guess you got the E-29 RA-style, BR-series coilovers? (so many letters @_@). I think we get the E-13 RS-style here with rubber mounts instead.
I have no idea.. I just looked through all the documentations and manuals supplied with it, with no mention of RS or RA style. It just says BR type for Fiesta ST +13.

[MENTION=505]XuperXero[/MENTION] thanks for the feedback. Did you leave the camber plates off? Any install pics?
So I guess you're wanting for separate rebound/compression adjustment? Is the ride still a bit below expectations or why do you want that?
Camber plates left on, didn't want to use the stock strut hats.
I used to drive a 350Z with TC Kline shocks that allowed for separate compression/rebound adjustment which was fantastic for tuning to absorb every bump on the road and without sacrificing cornering capability (but 3 times the price). The BC is combined compression/rebound adjustment so what happens is... Too soft, absorbs bump well at low speed but bounces at high speed. Too hard, stiff at low speed but stable and comfy at high speed. Can't have best of both worlds.

Currently set in between which is Front 8/Rear 7 clicks from soft. Over 10 is actually ridiculous on rural area of Chinese streets. Out of the box was 22 clicks all around. You can imagine how bone jarring that was. I definitely recommend you guys to start from 6 and work your way up.

Drop out of the box is 20mm rear, 25mm front. Had to raise the front 8mm after we discovered rubbing issues when turning hard. Pics below:




Car is still settling, it's lower than first picture now.
 


MOFiST

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#65
Thanks for the info.

So can you describe compared to OEM are you happy with them over all and what you feel has changed?

Also 16 inch rims would help soften up the ride, at the expense of less road feel but it is what it is. I'm seriously considering this as well once my tires are done.
 


XuperXero

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#66
Thanks for the info.

So can you describe compared to OEM are you happy with them over all and what you feel has changed?

Also 16 inch rims would help soften up the ride, at the expense of less road feel but it is what it is. I'm seriously considering this as well once my tires are done.
I'm satisfied. Most general roads it's a lot more comfy than stock, not much bouncing around and less roll. But if there's a deep dip or bump then it's a little stiff. It's also less tail happy now which I'm a little disappointed because I like tail happy :). Cornering confidence has improved, there's 4 consecutive corner on the way to work, used to take them at 120km/h at edge of my seat and a little nervous. Now... I can take it with ease. This is likely the result of more camber from dropping and less roll.

Going to Shanghai to watch F1 on Sunday, will report back on how it feels on the highway.

No way I'm going less than stock size. Car looks silly with anything smaller than 17's.
 


MOFiST

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#67
Good you're happy. Been playing wheel size back and forth. Honestly I don't really agree about smaller wheels looking silly if it's the right wheel. Assetto Gara for instance look great in any size on this car imo. It's all what your used to really. Imagine a formula one car on low profile tires? You'd think it looks silly? I really care less about convention and more about what works. For me this car will play street duty for the most part 90+% and it's not really a flashy car. As long as the wheels don't take away from the driving ability of the car. In 16's I reckon it'd still retain the magic.
 


XuperXero

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#68
Good you're happy. Been playing wheel size back and forth. Honestly I don't really agree about smaller wheels looking silly if it's the right wheel. Assetto Gara for instance look great in any size on this car imo. It's all what your used to really. Imagine a formula one car on low profile tires? You'd think it looks silly? I really care less about convention and more about what works. For me this car will play street duty for the most part 90+% and it's not really a flashy car. As long as the wheels don't take away from the driving ability of the car. In 16's I reckon it'd still retain the magic.
I still prefer not going smaller than the factory size. Look and feel is perfect. Our wheel wells are already way too big for what they should be which is why 17 still looks undersized despite having 40 sidewall.

Speaking of formula 1... They're testing 18 inchers :p
 


XuperXero

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#70
[MENTION=432]MOFiST[/MENTION] Seems so. The main difference is the one you linked gets camber plates.

I base the info on BC's Taiwan/International site.
E-13 RS's http://www.bcec.com.tw/products_app/APP-BR-RS.htm and http://www.bcec.com.tw/products/productsRS.html ("NA" spec)
E-29 RA's http://www.bcec.com.tw/products_app/APP-BR-RA.htm and http://www.bcec.com.tw/products/productsRA.html ("EU"/"ST specific" spec)

Just ctrl+f (search) for fiesta to find the two listings. The "default" spring and dampers are the same between the two. That said, the bottom mount might be different as the E-29's are ST specific, in the listing at least.

Edit: Here is BC North America's application listing, you'll see they use E-13 for all Fiestas http://www.bcracing-na.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BC-application-list-2014.pdf
Took the stock suspension loaded in the box that the BC racing came with home today. After more poking around, guess what I found. A sticker inside the box. It says E-29 and BR-RA. 5kg front and 3 kg rear.

You're right on the dot!
 


meFiSTo

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#71
Car looks silly with anything smaller than 17's.
First: I'm going to respectfully differ on the point of smaller wheels (mostly because it's such a flippant dismissal of a subset of valid wheel and tire options). Personally, those kinds of unequivocal disqualifications rub me the wrong way.

There are a number of reasons that someone might prefer them, as I do, for this car. While I'm not overly concerned about what they look like (who doesn't want their car to look reasonably good?), there are some cars with 15-inch wheels that look, to me, frankly dominant. They are far from "silly."

Here my two favorite examples:

RAAMaudio's car on his (now apparently gone) 15x9 track wheels


Rodmoe's monster on 15x8 inch wheels (slammed for humor effects)


I look at each of those cars and just know that underneath the sheet metal is a FWD, fire-breathing, track-day E46 M3 slayer. Both those cars are on BC coilovers (at least at the time of the photos). Now, I don't think Rod drives his car with that setting, but it can be done and looks dialed in for that look.

I also have 15-inch wheels (15x7) and BC Racing coilovers. I chose my wheels for the following reasons (largely related to tire options):

  • Light weight -- My application is as an alternative grocery getter and occasional weekend recreational lapper. The TD PR 1.2 15x7s (while not the absolute lightest) are awesome compromise wheels (low cost, stout construction/design, light weight, and custom fit). Having less unsprung weight is a good thing on lapping day.
  • Tire options -- Ah 205/50-15. There is no single tire size suitable to this car that has more viable options for my purposes. Thank you Spec Miata. Lord knows 205/40-17 is woeful (although you can get RA1s and NT01s in this size which is a plus). BF-Goodrich, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Toyo, Nitto, and Yokohama all make top-rated Extreme Performance or entry-level R-compound tires at really affordable prices for that size. It's not the biggest meat you can put on there, but the key descriptor for me in thinking about my car is "recreational" before the word "lapping."
  • Balanced driving characteristics -- It can be argued that a lower profile tire will handle better at the limit. I'll accept that and would love there to be more 215/45-16 options or perhaps 225/40-15s -- but there few if any down there. Furthermore, I did not want to go all out like RAAMaudio or even as far as rodmoe. I wanted to keep the car as close to stock as possible, while adding a some credible capability for track day. A side benefit is that the taller tires make driving around town, even with a pretty stout stiffness setting for the BC coilovers, completely livable. I don't even notice it and will leave it like this between events (20 clicks toward full stiff; that's 2 clicks softer than factory default). I might add back the 2 clicks and see how the cars does for the next event (and how it changes its street demeanor).

Now, I'll admit my car is not as sexy on its 15x7s as some other cars on bigger wheels, but so far the car has provided great recreational-style performance at the track after its first shakedown event. And that is what I care about most. More suspension and alignment tuning is to come, but it's pretty close now.

It took a while to get here, but my feedback on the BC Racing coilovers: Very, very happy I went this route. Looking forward to seeing how they hold up over the years compared to my prior car's KW V3s.

This reads like a "defense" of 15-inch wheels, but it's really just a comment for people kicking around options to mate with the BC coilovers. 17-inch wheels look great on this car. I kept my stockers for winter use with all-weathers. But smaller wheels can look awesome too and there are other real benefits as well.

No disrespect intended toward XuperXero.

YMMV.
 


XuperXero

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#73
First: I'm going to respectfully differ on the point of smaller wheels (mostly because it's such a flippant dismissal of a subset of valid wheel and tire options). Personally, those kinds of unequivocal disqualifications rub me the wrong way.

There are a number of reasons that someone might prefer them, as I do, for this car. While I'm not overly concerned about what they look like (who doesn't want their car to look reasonably good?), there are some cars with 15-inch wheels that look, to me, frankly dominant. They are far from "silly."

Here my two favorite examples:

RAAMaudio's car on his (now apparently gone) 15x9 track wheels


Rodmoe's monster on 15x8 inch wheels (slammed for humor effects)


I look at each of those cars and just know that underneath the sheet metal is a FWD, fire-breathing, track-day E46 M3 slayer. Both those cars are on BC coilovers (at least at the time of the photos). Now, I don't think Rod drives his car with that setting, but it can be done and looks dialed in for that look.

I also have 15-inch wheels (15x7) and BC Racing coilovers. I chose my wheels for the following reasons (largely related to tire options):

  • Light weight -- My application is as an alternative grocery getter and occasional weekend recreational lapper. The TD PR 1.2 15x7s (while not the absolute lightest) are awesome compromise wheels (low cost, stout construction/design, light weight, and custom fit). Having less unsprung weight is a good thing on lapping day.
  • Tire options -- Ah 205/50-15. There is no single tire size suitable to this car that has more viable options for my purposes. Thank you Spec Miata. Lord knows 205/40-17 is woeful (although you can get RA1s and NT01s in this size which is a plus). BF-Goodrich, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Toyo, Nitto, and Yokohama all make top-rated Extreme Performance or entry-level R-compound tires at really affordable prices for that size. It's not the biggest meat you can put on there, but the key descriptor for me in thinking about my car is "recreational" before the word "lapping."
  • Balanced driving characteristics -- It can be argued that a lower profile tire will handle better at the limit. I'll accept that and would love there to be more 215/45-16 options or perhaps 225/40-15s -- but there few if any down there. Furthermore, I did not want to go all out like RAAMaudio or even as far as rodmoe. I wanted to keep the car as close to stock as possible, while adding a some credible capability for track day. A side benefit is that the taller tires make driving around town, even with a pretty stout stiffness setting for the BC coilovers, completely livable. I don't even notice it and will leave it like this between events (20 clicks toward full stiff; that's 2 clicks softer than factory default). I might add back the 2 clicks and see how the cars does for the next event (and how it changes its street demeanor).

Now, I'll admit my car is not as sexy on its 15x7s as some other cars on bigger wheels, but so far the car has provided great recreational-style performance at the track after its first shakedown event. And that is what I care about most. More suspension and alignment tuning is to come, but it's pretty close now.

It took a while to get here, but my feedback on the BC Racing coilovers: Very, very happy I went this route. Looking forward to seeing how they hold up over the years compared to my prior car's KW V3s.

This reads like a "defense" of 15-inch wheels, but it's really just a comment for people kicking around options to mate with the BC coilovers. 17-inch wheels look great on this car. I kept my stockers for winter use with all-weathers. But smaller wheels can look awesome too and there are other real benefits as well.

No disrespect intended toward XuperXero.

YMMV.
None taken. I actually enjoyed reading your post.

I do realize the advantage and disadvantages of smaller wheels. Looks is all personal preferences. 15 will probably even suit me better on the roads of rural/outskirts of city (where i work). But, to me, it's still "silly". No offense [giggle]


Came back from watching F1 in Shanghai. Ran into some bad surfaced highway and I realized.. suspension is too soft at current setting because of all the bouncing up and down on rough roads. Especially flying upwards over long bumps due to lack of rebound. Will be turning up a few clicks to see if that helps. I'm also convinced that it's possible the suspension has settled more and become softer, then again it could be my imagination and getting used to the ride.
 


LT Berzerker

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#74
Completely agree with everything stated. I wish there were some good 16x8 or 16x8.5 options on the market in a 4x108 so that modifying hubs wouldn't be necessary. However, I'm very pleased with the quality of my team dynamics thus far. The turn in on 17x8 +38 on a 205/40 is astounding... If there was a good option for a 16x8.5 +42 I'd be all over it! Though I've seen someone run 16x7 slipstreams with 225 tires... Looks mean... Next purchase for tires will be 215/40 or test fit 225/35... Wish we could get some more pics in this thread of aggressive performance oriented setups... Anything from 17's to 15's
 


RAAMaudio

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#76
XuperXero,
I love having you on this forum, great posts, great stories, great adventures, cool you went to the F1 race as well, I have not been since 83, last F1 race at Long Beach, had passes to everything, even back then it was an incredible experience, I can only imagine what it is like now, tell us about it:)

------------

I do not expect them and asked, I talked to Brian at Goodwin Racing, where you can get lots of 4x100 roll formed wheels for cheap, they will bring out some nice 4x100, 17" wheels for the new Miata as it went back to 4x100, not likely 16" due to restricted tire availabity but it could happen. For now there is the RPF1 in 16x8 which I might run but they are a bit smaller inside and likely not fit my BBK that fit over just one 15x9.

------------

I have a new set of the same wheels as in the picture out in the shop, holding off mounting as still waiting on the Helix wheels I was switching to, misunderstanding made me think I would get them before the end of last month so I bought the same wheels I had sold to ensure I had some when I get the car ready for the next track event.

If I can get the Helix on time I will just sell the set in the shop, I could of sold a couple of dozens sets I had so many ask for them.

----------------

I bought the BC's as an interim setup while waiting for higher end coilovers to be produced but I am more than pleased with them so far and likely to just keep them instead.

I might look into the camber plates, any leads would be greatly appreciated.

Rick
 


antarctica24

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#77
Mine have been on my Fiesta St now for about a month. I am at +5 in the front and +7 in the rear. I have put about 4000 miles on the set so far. It is my daily driver. The car feels like a different vehicle. over 100mph the car feels much more compliant, doing what you think it should be doing. 360 degree exits can be taken at about 80mph without any movement from the chassis. All of this without upgraded swaybars. To be fair, the wheels, tires and BC's were all done at the same time. So I cannot report on just the BC's. I can say the Michelin AS3 now my 2nd set, These are by far the best all around tire for this car. The middle set was a Hanook V2, and what a POS. Car now has 86K miles on it.

For anyone reading this wanting to tackle the job worrying about the alignment, Mark your factory struts and their locations prior to removing. When you mount the BC's put then back in the exact same place. Alignment will be preserved. Old trick but it still works.

With that said. There is always bad with the good. Here in Raleigh on 540 we have some bridges which are fairly new, and some of the separators are violent, almost bone shaking. The BC's are absorbing a lot of stuff that the car was not absorbing before and like I said the car is smoother, but some of the stuff is ruff. Additionally, there is chatter coming from the rear of the car. It sounds like the springs are hitting the perches but there are no marks. I am tempted to drill the perches and wire tie them to the perch. Again called 2J about it, and no help. This is the last product I buy from them. Having the forum is great and there are some very knowledgable people here on the forum, but when you buy something from someone they need to stand behind it and support If they are not, then they should not be selling product. Period. When you call them and they say, "we cant help you all we do is sell the product" that is BS.

There are other offerings out there especially ST. There a company that specializes in coilover technology, not a fly by night company supporting their racing.
 


XuperXero

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#78
So if we want camber adjustment we go with E-29 BR-RA? Is this correct?
Only if you want to drill/cut your strut tower. Otherwise it's about as useful as paperweight. The only way aside from drilling/cutting the strut is to remove and adjust and put it back on in which by the the alignment is no longer valid. I just left mine at 0 and will use stock factory method of adjusting when fully settled in.

XuperXero,
I love having you on this forum, great posts, great stories, great adventures, cool you went to the F1 race as well, I have not been since 83, last F1 race at Long Beach, had passes to everything, even back then it was an incredible experience, I can only imagine what it is like now, tell us about it:)
I do try to live my life on the edge ;). This being my first F1 race, I can't comment on how to compare to previous engine regulations. I have heard that the 2.4L V8 was much more aurally pleasurable than the current 1.6L Turbo V6's. But the wail is still unbelievable and pierced through Shanghai air with fury.

I had picked a good spot, I was in the grand stand at the end of the straightaway leading into the ultra tight hairpin, my seat was between the 50 and 100 meter marker. So what happens is I see them come flying in at 320+km/h and brake right in front of me at 90-100 meters before the turn. You'll hear 5 insanely fast downshifts and engine revving each downshift. This was enjoyable until... the last 10 laps (except safety car on the last 2 laps) in which everyone increased their pace and shortened their braking distance to what my eyes tells me was approximately 40 meters before the hairpin. 320+km/h to hairpin, downshifting 5 times, flames spitting out, and rotors glowing all within a distance of 40 meters! Now that was INCREDIBLE.



Sorry for OT :)
 


RAAMaudio

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#79
That had to be incredible! Even in 83" they were doing around 165 on the dogleg not very long main straight and hitting the brakes at the last second, I was no more than 30 ft from them and instantly the brakes turned bright red and howled! I am pretty sure these we manual transmission cars and turbo V6 with more power than today. Also racing were lay down twin engine karts, they hit 145 on that section of the track and just 2 seconds a lap slower than the F1 cars, insane to say the least.

------------

Back on topic

I will have to call BC to see about the camber plates, I already slotted the strut towers to enable changing the camber, drilled new holes, I would rather have the plates so will see what they can do.
 


XuperXero

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#80
Sorry to bring this thread back from dead.

It's been a month and half since I had BC's installed. Thought I'd give some feedback over this time.

I installed this in early April. Weather has been getting warmer and hotter during this time and what happens is... Dampers got soft. (I'm very well versed with this as I had to adjust my Koni's on my AW11 MR2 every season change. Winter was max soft and summer was max stiff).

I also lowered the tire pressure to absorb the misc uneven crappy pavement job of China roads, so what happens is this allowed to turn the dampers up a lot more which balanced the handling and comfort. Now I'm at 32psi front, 29 psi rear with dampers set at 18 clicks from soft at front and 16 rear. I'll be adjusting front dampers stiffer tomorrow as I did the 16 rear's today and went for a mountain run (it used to be 18 front 12 rear). Didn't feel as balanced since rear felt stiffer than front and on the mountain roads, it showed a lot more understeer than usual.

I also had to readjust the ride height a few times to get the height looking proper after breaking in. One thing I'm not happy with is that the rear dampers in the casing at maxed low is still not low enough even with the spring preload loosened as much as possible. It's still a lot higher than the fronts.
Current measurements (from bottom of rim to fender) are:
FL: 535mm FR: 536mm
RL: 540mm RR: 541mm

I'm gonna try 20 clicks front and leave the 16 clicks rear and see how that goes.

Highway is a lot more stable in the hotter weather and stiffer damper FYI.

Edit: due to lower tire pressures, after the mountain runs, I noticed I ride a bit of the sidewalls a lot more on the front, rear is fine. Hopefully adjusting front stiffness will help. If not, I'll either bump up the tire pressure or increase
camber.

Edit 2: I have a "Xiaoyi" (gopro knockoff) video of it. Who wants to see? If no, then I'm not gonna waste time uploading 2gb.

Edit 3: After further consideration, I would say 6/4 kgm spring rate combo is a better choice than the 5/3. It seems like dampers are doing fine but not enough to control the oscillation of the springs that are too soft. But of course, separate rebound/compression could easily fix this.
 


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