Anyone Install/Run a TT S270* on their FiestaST?

[esp_martin]

So in my Quixotic quest for the best dollar-for-dollar + reliability + ease of installation journey I came across Turbo Technics S270 "hybrid". I couldn't find anyone on the forum writing about TT's approach to a bolt-on OEM machined turbo. It seems to be TT's take on what other hybrids do as it reuses the turbo housing? I'm not sure but Collins issues a 500 GBP refund if you return your OEM turbo. I think since they're removing the OEM wheel and replacing with their full turbine wheel this is actually a tiny big turbo. Can anyone weigh in on this? With the current exchange rate I could grab this S270 and a Vudu ported manifold and have a stock fitting upgraded turbo that can *probably* hit 300whp on a conservative e30 tune with uprated injectors all for around $2000-2300 and not having to mess around relocating parts/shaving engine blocks/changing the dynamic of the OEM FiestaST too much.

This might be a moot point as I can't find a supplier in the States and every British TT S270 won't ship stateside. My last hope is Collins Performance (which would be my first choice anyway but waiting on their CustomerSupport to respond back with a yes/no) but they use a proprietary WGA Collins Performance 1.6 Ecoboost Actuator - Collins Performance .
Edit: Well Collins got back fast. They quoted me a 180GBP shipping so factor in return shipping this is probably about $1500 once everything is said and done soooo about the same price as a whoosh hybrid. But based on everything provided this seems more like Collins' version of the Peron S284 kit. of a full bolt on turbo kit using their own WGA. From what I can tell by the pictures the only things I'll really need after this is a upgraded FMIC, tuner and the uprated injectors.


Here is the only British seller whose site provided the info on what's in an S270 TurboTechnics S270 Hybrid turbo kit for ST180 - H-Sport Performance (hsportperformance.co.uk)

 

[ron@whoosh]

the Peron S284 is in fact the S280 base turbo
Peron adds an uprated WGA and BPV to the kit which makes the TT S280 their own Peron S284
The S280 and S284 are completely different than the S270 which is has a modified stock KP39 turbine & CHRA with TT proprietary comp housing
The S280 / S284 do not use any KP39 components

In your quest for cheapest turbo possible you may have left out that we also take in your core so the whoosh hybrid is technically $1349 shipped to your door for comparisons sake
whoosh is also the only authorized Turbo Technics US distributor for Ford ecoboost turbos , we can supply anything TT offers

 

[esp_martin]

the Peron S284 is in fact the S280 base turbo
Peron adds an uprated WGA and BPV to the kit which makes the TT S280 their own Peron S284
The S280 and S284 are completely different than the S270 which is has a modified stock KP39 turbine & CHRA with TT proprietary comp housing
The S280 / S284 do not use any KP39 components

In your quest for cheapest turbo possible you may have left out that we also take in your core so the whoosh hybrid is technically $1349 shipped to your door for comparisons sake
whoosh is also the only authorized Turbo Technics US distributor for Ford ecoboost turbos , we can supply anything TT offers

thank you for the added info @ron@whoosh as i couldn't find anything about center housing rotating assembly. always appreciate when the power players on the forum drop some knowledge.

and while i understand many here are trying to squeeze as much as they can from a limited budget, i'm not out to find the cheapest new turbo. just trying to find the best middleground between performance and ease of install. edit: i compared this S270 to the Peron S284 as this Collins Performance package includes everything needed for install like the Peron does for the S280. i didn't realize i came across as trying to compare the two as apples to apples. sorry for that. unfortunately i don't have ready access to a garage so i need this to be as close to a "one and done" as i can be and just trying to explore every option out there and contribute to the forum when i can. having the car up on stands for an extra few days/weeks because i need to source an inlet elbow or figure out a boost leak that no one's seen before is not something i want to get into if i can help it.

for me the thinking is:
Mountune MRX + WOR Fabricated Manifold
whoosh hybrid + turbosmart WGA + whoosh ported manifold
Peron S284 + airtec tubular manifold
(and now maybe?) Collins Performance TT S270 + vudu ported manifold

Garrett turbos are now out of the question. The added top end for me just isn't worth the soft bottom end and no one really champions the MRX as the Garrett go to anyway.

I may only have an interested audience of like two people but if I can help them out...maybe they can return the favor someday.

 

[NATYPE]

I personally love all the speculative discussion and build theory crafting that goes on around here. Lots of great, searchable info and discourse!

 

[Dpro]

That S270 kit looks exactly like the S280 kit. while you might not have the slight block clearance issue . (It’s really not much of an issue and some don’t have it.) Plus the savings vs hp? Does not look that large. That S270 is rated at 300bhp not wheel. Thats gonna limit it in my opinion. Which is ok if that’s where you want to be. Except you seem to be trying to spend a lot extra on different manifold ideas that effectively outweigh the possible $200-300 savings of it. Plus its a hybrid if you want a hybrid buy the Whoosh save money have stateside backing if there is an issue.

In the end unless you are trying to go for large numbers you can skip the manifold deal it’s a lot of extra cash to try and pick up a possibly 100-200 rpm quicker spool up. Honestly just adding a E30 tune to my S280 gave it crazy amounts of extra TQ and pushed HP close to 300 wheel. With Injectors I would be looking at 330-340whp and equal if not more TQ. That’s running a stock manifold.

I also would say if you want the donkey kick and keeping your hp in the 250-270wheel range just get the Whoosh and forget buying a manifold you really don’t need it. Unless you like spending money lots of money for small gains.

If you want to hit 300 or go big at up too just under 400hp or just like the idea of the nature of the s280. Which retains a really nice stock sleeper like low rpm then spools quickly around 400-500 rpm later than stock and pulls all the way to redline like a monster.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

s280 for the win, plain and simple

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTMh5-INb_c

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5NZ1iApGI4

 

[esp_martin]

i just want everyone to know i definitely understand a lot of people come on this forum to nitpick and give the OGs a hard time thinking they know more.

I am not one of those posters. and i understand most everyone here touts the s280 as the best solution. without exception.

That list above is just trying to show one-to-one comparisons. I've read that tubular manifolds really aren't necessary for anything other than GTX2860R and even then the difference is pretty minimal. The WOR manifold I've read is pretty necessary for peace of mind so you don't have to worry about the VBand nightmare to marry the manifold to a Garrett. So if I had gone that route, I woulda done that combo every day of the week. If everyone here is saying skip the airtech tubular and just stay stock manifold with the s280, that works fine for me.

The ported manifold/running e30 is more to make sure the engine runs cooler. if i went hybrid/BT the 93 tune would be really conservative (like 260whp no matter what; as I would only run that tune in the winter/when i can't get my hands on sweet sweet corn juice). It's a big reason I'm hesitant to go hybrid in general. with the s280 that might not be a problem full stop as to how much better it can breathe as a BT. again, i'm not saying i'm against going s280. i'm just trying to find out if anyone knows anything about the s270. maybe it breathes easier up top since Turbo Technics is the manufacturer.

i get that whoosh is the go-to hybrid. and i appreciate everything Ron does for this community. this isn't to throw dirt on any other solution. he pointed out this s270 uses the kp39 which for me probably means it doesn't have any advantages over other hybrids (i thought the literature said it uses different internals but i'm still learning)

 

[esp_martin]

I'm just kinda surprised at the responses. It just seems to me like Turbo Technics (the company a lot of tuners here sing to the high heavens) tried their hand at threading the needle of hybrd vs BT. The team that did the best job with the ST180 Fiesta took another crack at it with a somewhat different approach.

I'm not trying to say this is better than anything else. I don't know anything about this turbo. Just asking if anyone has any history with this kit. If no one does maybe I'll be the first.

or maybe I'll run as fast as I can in the other direction.

 

[Dpro]

snip happens…..

i get that whoosh is the go-to hybrid. and i appreciate everything Ron does for this community. this isn't to throw dirt on any other solution. he pointed out this s270 uses the kp39 which for me probably means it doesn't have any advantages over other hybrids (i thought the literature said it uses different internals but i'm still learning)

I don’t doubt the S270 is a quality turbo. If we were in the UK I would even hazard to say I would wholeheartedly recommend it. People used and bought Pumaspeed hybrids x37-x47 etc.. because they did not have stateside choices beyond Garrett setups. Pumaspeed also offered a fair amount of support. Now they do tend to have their detractors and whatnot , who doesn’t some less some more.
Though seeing as Collins Performance is the only company willing to sell you it stateside and the fact they are I believe a smaller business than Pumaspeed would bring into question the amount of support. In my opinion it’s more hassles than its worth when you have the Whoosh and S280 right here through Ron.
I get you want to be the different I did it my way guy to certain extent but sometimes that kind of stuff defies logic.
I would say the better thing to be doing would be deciding which particular turbo suits your wants and needs. Hybrid donkey down low with a better top end but still not the kind of mid and top you would get with the s280 and the drivability of the S280.
Hybrid fun till you get possibly tired of constant bottom end wheel spin. Unless your just a nut that way .
I am not going to tell you which turbo to buy I am pointing out what you should be looking at rather than just picking a turbo for the sake of a turbo.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

i just want everyone to know i definitely understand a lot of people come on this forum to nitpick and give the OGs a hard time thinking they know more.

I am not one of those posters. and i understand most everyone here touts the s280 as the best solution. without exception.

That list above is just trying to show one-to-one comparisons. I've read that tubular manifolds really aren't necessary for anything other than GTX2860R and even then the difference is pretty minimal. The WOR manifold I've read is pretty necessary for peace of mind so you don't have to worry about the VBand nightmare to marry the manifold to a Garrett. So if I had gone that route, I woulda done that combo every day of the week. If everyone here is saying skip the airtech tubular and just stay stock manifold with the s280, that works fine for me.

The ported manifold/running e30 is more to make sure the engine runs cooler. if i went hybrid/BT the 93 tune would be really conservative (like 260whp no matter what; as I would only run that tune in the winter/when i can't get my hands on sweet sweet corn juice). It's a big reason I'm hesitant to go hybrid in general. with the s280 that might not be a problem full stop as to how much better it can breathe as a BT. again, i'm not saying i'm against going s280. i'm just trying to find out if anyone knows anything about the s270. maybe it breathes easier up top since Turbo Technics is the manufacturer.

i get that whoosh is the go-to hybrid. and i appreciate everything Ron does for this community. this isn't to throw dirt on any other solution. he pointed out this s270 uses the kp39 which for me probably means it doesn't have any advantages over other hybrids (i thought the literature said it uses different internals but i'm still learning)

What exactly are you looking for? Mild bottom end with effortless top end power? I live in Oklahoma which arguably has one of the WORST summer time climates with highs over 105* combined with 30-40% humidity days. Other than some coolant temps, I have never had a turbo struggle with producing good power even in the heat. Nor do I attribute it to any engine failures. I totally empathize wanting the best bang for the buck which is what the majority of fiesta st owners are after, but until we have a good engine combo that will handle 600whp or more reliably, literally every combination of turbo is available. Anything from the Whoosh hybrid, s280, 2860/67 gen 2 setups, cover just about everything.

 

[esp_martin]

I was just researching as much as I could before I started gathering parts for my BT build. I wanted to go whoosh hybrid because of OEM fit and the HP I wanted but the donkey kick everyone talks about is not something I'm looking for and I would like it to breathe better up top when I do have opportunities to drive in Mexico. My e30 on stock turbo is already borderline too much low end torque. I stumbled on the s270 and the way it's built makes it seem like it has a foot in both worlds of hybrid and BT with OEM fit so wanted to see if anyone here had the setup. Maybe lessen a bit of the donkey kick down low but still breathe easy at 6500rpm. It seems like no one does have it to get numbers though.

I agree with @Dpro that it looks solid but if no one runs it in the States that comes with it's own huge risks. Community support is a huge factor in going aftermarket installs that void warranties. Also all my thoughts on how it runs are just thoughts. No YT videos or dynos to look at.

All that said the S280 pretty much checks every box I want and will probably go that way regardless and hold my breath and hope I have one of the straightforward installs.

 

[gtx3076]

I was just researching as much as I could before I started gathering parts for my BT build. I wanted to go whoosh hybrid because of OEM fit and the HP I wanted but the donkey kick everyone talks about is not something I'm looking for and I would like it to breathe better up top when I do have opportunities to drive in Mexico. My e30 on stock turbo is already borderline too much low end torque. I stumbled on the s270 and the way it's built makes it seem like it has a foot in both worlds of hybrid and BT with OEM fit so wanted to see if anyone here had the setup. Maybe lessen a bit of the donkey kick down low but still breathe easy at 6500rpm. It seems like no one does have it to get numbers though.

I agree with @Dpro that it looks solid but if no one runs it in the States that comes with it's own huge risks. Community support is a huge factor in going aftermarket installs that void warranties. Also all my thoughts on how it runs are just thoughts. No YT videos or dynos to look at.

All that said the S280 pretty much checks every box I want and will probably go that way regardless and hold my breath and hope I have one of the straightforward installs.

Torque can be mitigated with the tune. If overall you think a hybrid is a good fit for you but don't want so much low down torque, just tell your tuner you want less torque when WOT.

 

[MO15Fiesta]

My s280 feels 90% like my Whoosh hybrid did down low. It spools very quickly. Once you get one and install, all of you worries go away. That being said, the hybrid is no slouch, even up top.

 

[dhminer]

I made my turbo decision based on who makes it more than what it does or what type of bearings are utilized. Some will argue BB vs JB, but IMO both work just fine as long as you take care of your stuff.

I don’t know who makes any of the hybrids nor do I know anything about Turbo Technics manufacturing processes. That’s absolutely not to say anything negative, simply that I don’t know.

Taking a look at Garrett - $3.6B revenue (2021) and over 8,000 employees. Nearly 20 million turbos produced per year. The fact that Garrett produces OEM turbos (very stringent quality control required) coupled with the fact that the GT, GTX, G series turbos we use on our cars are used on a ton of other platforms also gave me peace of mind that their is support if anything goes awry. I’ve spent most of my career in manufacturing and have worked for small companies and fortune 100 companies. I trust the quality control, supplier management, manufacturing engineering, etc. of a large corporation significantly more than (optimistically) a few hundred folks making in the thousands of turbos a year.

Not everyone thinks like me however, and that’s a good thing. I might be completely wrong, but I might not. Simply trying to articulate my thought process.

What is absolutely certain is that all of the options presented above will totally transform the car for the better and you’ll have a blast with any of them. This whole debate is like trying to get a locker room full of guys to agree if tits or ass is better. Some prefer one, some prefer the other, but at the end of the day they’re both awesome.

 

[esp_martin]

I made my turbo decision based on who makes it more than what it does or what type of bearings are utilized. Some will argue BB vs JB, but IMO both work just fine as long as you take care of your stuff.

I don’t know who makes any of the hybrids nor do I know anything about Turbo Technics manufacturing processes. That’s absolutely not to say anything negative, simply that I don’t know.

Taking a look at Garrett - $3.6B revenue (2021) and over 8,000 employees. Nearly 20 million turbos produced per year. The fact that Garrett produces OEM turbos (very stringent quality control required) coupled with the fact that the GT, GTX, G series turbos we use on our cars are used on a ton of other platforms also gave me peace of mind that their is support if anything goes awry. I’ve spent most of my career in manufacturing and have worked for small companies and fortune 100 companies. I trust the quality control, supplier management, manufacturing engineering, etc. of a large corporation significantly more than (optimistically) a few hundred folks making in the thousands of turbos a year.

Not everyone thinks like me however, and that’s a good thing. I might be completely wrong, but I might not. Simply trying to articulate my thought process.

What is absolutely certain is that all of the options presented above will totally transform the car for the better and you’ll have a blast with any of them. This whole debate is like trying to get a locker room full of guys to agree if tits or ass is better. Some prefer one, some prefer the other, but at the end of the day they’re both awesome.

i definitely wanted Garrett or BorgWarner spinning in my Fiesta but both companies refusal to make gen2 turbos for small displacement engines is interesting. i wanted to get the MTX system badly but everything i read says don't bother and go GTX but those turbos don't really work for what i want.

and i get the locker room talk for sure and appreciate everyone taking the time to answer. but i wasn't asking what's the best turbski. i was asking if anyone had heard of this one. be like if asked the dudes in the locker room if they had seen Sharon and all i got back were responses of their favorite girls or why i was looking for Sharon when I should be looking for Kate/Mindy/etc.

that said i still learned a lot and people did eventually answer so i ain't mad at all.

 

[Dpro]

I made my turbo decision based on who makes it more than what it does or what type of bearings are utilized. Some will argue BB vs JB, but IMO both work just fine as long as you take care of your stuff.

I don’t know who makes any of the hybrids nor do I know anything about Turbo Technics manufacturing processes. That’s absolutely not to say anything negative, simply that I don’t know.

Taking a look at Garrett - $3.6B revenue (2021) and over 8,000 employees. Nearly 20 million turbos produced per year. The fact that Garrett produces OEM turbos (very stringent quality control required) coupled with the fact that the GT, GTX, G series turbos we use on our cars are used on a ton of other platforms also gave me peace of mind that their is support if anything goes awry. I’ve spent most of my career in manufacturing and have worked for small companies and fortune 100 companies. I trust the quality control, supplier management, manufacturing engineering, etc. of a large corporation significantly more than (optimistically) a few hundred folks making in the thousands of turbos a year.

Not everyone thinks like me however, and that’s a good thing. I might be completely wrong, but I might not. Simply trying to articulate my thought process.

What is absolutely certain is that all of the options presented above will totally transform the car for the better and you’ll have a blast with any of them. This whole debate is like trying to get a locker room full of guys to agree if tits or ass is better. Some prefer one, some prefer the other, but at the end of the day they’re both awesome.

To offer a caveat to your argument of bigger is better. Sometimes in manufacturing that actually works against a product rather than for it.
Rule #1 in manufacturing is there is no such thing as 100% perfect . Product defect in the manufacturing process can and does happen. QC is the most important and how a company handles warranty issues should they arise.

In the larger companies and this is no particular critique of Garrett is the fact that sometimes the customer gets lost in the warranty process due to company largess. Send something here to get approved for instance . Boys in warranty have to check it out and then approve. There are larger manufacturers that are absolutely horrible in warranty issues due to the size of the corp. Mainly because of what I cite above. No local warranty center. No hands on help.

I only point this out because citing Garrett as a choice vs TurboTechnics because Garrett is a huge multinational company may work against the little guy. Whereas a company like Turbo Technics you can contact easily or have Ron contact them.

After all when the Revo thing went down .Turbo Technics stepped in and literally took care of stuff . In case you did not know the predecessor the the S280 was the Revo RT330 a Turbo made by Turbo Technics that Revo modded. It had issues which lead to Revo not honoring warranty claims here in the U.S. Turbo Technics sorted the whole thing out for those people. Revo bailed on them. Turbo Technics is represented in the U.S. by Ron. Revo is no longer represented .

Moral of story while not the size of Garrett Turbo Technics stepped up and proved worthy.
I look at it this way Garrett or Turbo Technics there are enough of each out there in the field being used with success that either one is good. Both have representation here as well.
So either one is a valid choice and this is a devils advocate type post to your statement above pointing out the alternatives to the points of your own assessment.

I personally will always pick something based on multiple criteria. I feel in this particular situation performance plays big into it. This is where I choose the S280 in large part to Garrett/Borg Warner really not addressing engines in our size range with the proper turbo’s. Any Garrett Borg Warner aftermarket turbo used on our cars is a compromise of sorts.
Whereas the S280 was designed specifically for our cars. Hmmmm in my book this pushes hard towards a S280 being the great choice.

As far as the other persons comment about tuning out the donkey ya you could but then your stuck with a lesser performance overall due to the fact you will never completely get the mid range and top end with the hybrids that a S280 or BT can give.

Again like I said in my previous post and Mo15 said all of this comes down to what the person wants from their turbo rev and power band wise which is what the OP should be thinking about.
Any of the Turbos mentioned will add fun just in varying amounts of ways .