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Article "Is the N mightier than the Ford? Hyundai i20 N vs Fiesta ST"

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#21
If you've priced a gt350 and got it to be 68k, more likely than not it's a gt350r. if thats the case, good luck with there being not some 10k adm, so likely you're looking at closer to a 65-70k car. Did not bother looking at them bc of that.
A base gt350 in the '19 and '20 years were closer to 60k base and the earlier years I recall started well below 60k. It was a good sweet spot and at some point you could get them without ADM although don't recall you could get them well under invoice either.

when I went car shopping in early '19, prices for Chevy were more attractive as C7s and Z1's were heavily discounted and one could nab a grand sport or zl1 for the mid 50s pretty easily.
I initially wanted to get either Fiesta ST (also good prices back then and regret not jumping on them) or ND, but lots of unhealthy obsessing and overthinking eventually got me trading my 12 mustang boss into a zl1-1le.
neither are really comparable to the Fiesta in any way nor was the gt350 I test drove (also really nice but the value wasn't as strong imo).
 


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jmrtsus

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I think that was one part of it.
The Mach 1 Coyote is a world car and you can still get over 700 hp with warranty on a Coyote here, Ford could not economically meet pollution in the EU with the Voodoo so the Shelby GT350 was dropped for the Mach 1 according to interview with Ford.
 


kevinatfms

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#24
The Mach 1 Coyote is a world car and you can still get over 700 hp with warranty on a Coyote here, Ford could not economically meet pollution in the EU with the Voodoo so the Shelby GT350 was dropped for the Mach 1 according to interview with Ford.
700hp is with the aftermarket supercharger kits. The showroom stock mach 1 is still a regular old coyote. Nothing more.

The voodoo was niche line built and was extremely expensive to build compared to the coyote. Id bet the bean counters figured out you could shove a Coyote into a GT350 and not lose the consumer base while targeting the EU emissions protocols.

So they killed the voodoo, killed the GT350 name to ensure it stays a "legend" vehicle nameplate while resurrecting another well known name plate to continue the enthusiast/track focused car.
 


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jmrtsus

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Thread Starter #25
700hp is with the aftermarket supercharger kits. The showroom stock mach 1 is still a regular old coyote. Nothing more.

The voodoo was niche line built and was extremely expensive to build compared to the coyote. Id bet the bean counters figured out you could shove a Coyote into a GT350 and not lose the consumer base while targeting the EU emissions protocols.

So they killed the voodoo, killed the GT350 name to ensure it stays a "legend" vehicle nameplate while resurrecting another well known name plate to continue the enthusiast/track focused car.
The GT350 is no more so stuffing a Coyote in it will be difficult, LOL! Ford does not own the Shelby name or designations. Shelby does. I am referring to the warranty friendly Ford Performance upgrades. I would not do a non Ford upgrade under warranty. The Coyote 460 hp is plenty and for a little over $1K you can go to the bullitt engine upgrade, only 20 hp up top but adds 42 lb/ft at 2000 rpm. We may do it in ours for the ECU remap.
 


kevinatfms

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The GT350 is no more so stuffing a Coyote in it will be difficult, LOL! Ford does not own the Shelby name or designations. Shelby does. I am referring to the warranty friendly Ford Performance upgrades. I would not do a non Ford upgrade under warranty. The Coyote 460 hp is plenty and for a little over $1K you can go to the bullitt engine upgrade, only 20 hp up top but adds 42 lb/ft at 2000 rpm. We may do it in ours for the ECU remap.
Ford has more than you think with the Shelby name.

The Ford "warranty" friendly upgrade is 650hp. Again, an aftermarket supercharger upgrade with a factory approved calibration. If you even think Ford Performance had anything to do with the Whipple calibration youre a fucking lunatic. Its a factory Whipple calibration that is tested by CARB. Ford Performance slaps their badge on it when it passes and ensures the warranty is accepted.

Non-approved Ford upgrades do not exist. Dont know what you are talking about. Its either use the Ford Performance Whipple kit or lose the warranty.

$1000 for the Bullitt Engine Upgrade? Its a reflash bud, that is it. Same engine, same drivetrain between Bullitt and GT.
 


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jmrtsus

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Thread Starter #27
Ford has more than you think with the Shelby name.

The Ford "warranty" friendly upgrade is 650hp. Again, an aftermarket supercharger upgrade with a factory approved calibration. If you even think Ford Performance had anything to do with the Whipple calibration youre a fucking lunatic. Its a factory Whipple calibration that is tested by CARB. Ford Performance slaps their badge on it when it passes and ensures the warranty is accepted.

Non-approved Ford upgrades do not exist. Dont know what you are talking about. Its either use the Ford Performance Whipple kit or lose the warranty.

$1000 for the Bullitt Engine Upgrade? Its a reflash bud, that is it. Same engine, same drivetrain between Bullitt and GT.
Bud.........do some research. Nothing you wrote is true. The Ford Performance Roush Supercharger kits go from 700 HP to 750HP with your factory warranty and use Eaton superchargers not Whipple.

The Whipple is one of the non-ford upgrades you say does "not exist". Whipple will sell you for $650 a 36K warranty if your car has less than 18K miles but your Ford warranty is gone on the powertrain.

The Bullitt upgrade is not just a reflash. It changes the throttle body to a larger size and cold air intake to the 480 HP Bullitt engine specs. The 480HP Bullitt and standard 460HP Coyote's are slightly different. Do you think Ford just says it is 480 hp without changes?

Ford does its own tuning, they don't buy a "calibration" from Whipple.

Shelby is NOT owned by Ford, I know because Ford has not bought my Shelby stock even though it is cheap as hell. Shelby itself has multiple companies. Ford can order all the GT350's they want from Shelby in the future if they decide to bring it back. You need to learn more about Ford Performance and Shelby, Bud.

FYI

"Copyright ©2020 - All Rights Reserved. SHELBY®, SHELBY GT®, GT500®, GT350®, SUPER SNAKE®, 289®, 289FIA®, 427®, 427 S/C®, the outward appearance of the 1960s Shelby Cobra vehicles® and SHELBY AMERICAN™ are registered trademarks and/or the trade dress of Carroll Shelby and Carroll Shelby Licensing, Inc. (Shelby)."
 


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XR650R

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The Bullitt upgrade is not just a reflash. It changes the throttle body to a larger size and cold air intake to the 480 HP Bullitt engine specs. The 480HP Bullitt and standard 460HP Coyote's are slightly different. Do you think Ford just says it is 480 hp without changes?
It also has the intake manifold from the GT350.
 


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Thread Starter #29
It also has the intake manifold from the GT350.
Not in the upgrade kit but I don't want the extra work on the installation. Installation price may go to 2 cases of beer. The Bullitt car has it I believe but Ford uses same engine power numbers for the kit. So they probably under rated the car engine. Can't see them using it without some power/drivability benefits. What we want is the remap and 42 lb/ft increase in low end torque. Ego thing for wife, does not want be "stock". I relate it to our MP-215, mild upgrade but brings it alive earlier.
 


kevinatfms

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Bud.........do some research. Nothing you wrote is true. The Ford Performance Roush Supercharger kits go from 700 HP to 750HP with your factory warranty and use Eaton superchargers not Whipple.

The Whipple is one of the non-ford upgrades you say does "not exist". Whipple will sell you for $650 a 36K warranty if your car has less than 18K miles but your Ford warranty is gone on the powertrain.

The Bullitt upgrade is not just a reflash. It changes the throttle body to a larger size and cold air intake to the 480 HP Bullitt engine specs. The 480HP Bullitt and standard 460HP Coyote's are slightly different. Do you think Ford just says it is 480 hp without changes?

Ford does its own tuning, they don't buy a "calibration" from Whipple.

Shelby is NOT owned by Ford, I know because Ford has not bought my Shelby stock even though it is cheap as hell. Shelby itself has multiple companies. Ford can order all the GT350's they want from Shelby in the future if they decide to bring it back. You need to learn more about Ford Performance and Shelby, Bud.

FYI

"Copyright ©2020 - All Rights Reserved. SHELBY®, SHELBY GT®, GT500®, GT350®, SUPER SNAKE®, 289®, 289FIA®, 427®, 427 S/C®, the outward appearance of the 1960s Shelby Cobra vehicles® and SHELBY AMERICAN™ are registered trademarks and/or the trade dress of Carroll Shelby and Carroll Shelby Licensing, Inc. (Shelby)."
You are right about the Eaton blowers. Ford Racing/ Ford Performance in the past used the Whipple kits. I'm assuming Eaton got a hold on the blower kits after the whole 03-04 Cobra debacle.

With that, THEY DO NOT MAKE THE TUNE. Roush does the tune and Ford "purchases" the rights to use that tune for the life of the package. Its not a Ford factory calibration in any way, shape or form. Stated right on the Ford Performance website. They validate the Roush tune to meet or exceed the Ford requirements for the factory warranty period.

The Bullitt upgrade has been the same since the 2001 MY. Bolt on parts from the factory bins and a slight tune for those parts. The long block is the exact same as the GT. So any person can make their own Bullit powered GT with the available bolt on parts. Same as the 2008 version.

Ford doesnt buy a single GT350 from Shelby. They manufacture, produce and sell the GT350/GT500. They pay for the trademark and that is it. Shelby doesnt build a single thing any longer. They are a bolt on manufacturer at this point. Shelby at this point is riding the coat tails of the GT350 and GT500. Once they are gone Shelby is going the way of the ghost.
 


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Thread Starter #31
I never said Shelby built the cars, Ford builds cars. Shelby owns the rights. Shelby is currently offering the Shelby GT for sale, a dressed up Mustang GT with a Shelby magic number. Ford cannot make a Shelby GT350 without Shelby's involvement in approving it and Ford paying for the rights. Ford can revive it whenever they want. FCA could offer Shelby's again or the Series 2 could be brought back. Historically Shelby companies always spend more than the make. My CSBI stock is trading for 20 cents a share currently and to my knowledge never paid a dividend. But the marketing rights will alway be worth $$ and Shelby will go on.........

You can mod your car all you want from Ford's parts bin, but if you want your warranty you will use the Ford Performance kits. I want mine in the Mustang or FiST.

Like Mountune, Roush has (or had like Mountune) a business relationship with Ford. Roush and Mountune were owned by the same company for a while. Roush knows the EPA crackdowns are comings and want the protection of Ford certifying their upgrades. These calibrations just like the legal Mountune upgrades use the Ford ECU with software modified by Ford for higher performance and reliability. This software is warranted and updated as required by Ford and the EPA for compliance and any changes by Ford requires a recertification. Roush stated the software was developed using (quote from Roush), "Ford calibrators and test facilities" so Ford could then EPA and CARB certify it and warrant it. It is to Roush's benefit to advertise the kits as warranty friendly and to Ford to sell a Ford Performance upgrades. Even Shelby sells a version of the Ford Performance supercharger (rebadged as Shelby) kit. The best thing is that Ford Performance prices are often discounted.
 


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