Datalogging NGK LTR7IX-11 vs Denso ITV22

[haste]

Here are some results I have had trying both plugs. I gapped the NGK plugs myself, to the stock .031 gap. The Denso plugs I order are supposed to be pre-gapped, to which spec, I do not know.

I am currently running the Cobb OTS Stage 3 tune.

I have multiple logs using the NGK and do not see any negative corrections. I noticed soon after installing the Denso plugs I was seeing negative corrections on cylinder 1 and 3, frequently. Normally, if I do see a negative correction it is cylinder 1.

Both of the logs I am listing here are with the same fuel(same pump, same station), yet, some time has passed between the two fill-ups.

Here is the most recent log with new Denso ITV22 plugs installed. Check out 5500rpms on cylinder 1.

http://datazap.me/u/haste/denso-itv22-0?log=0&data=4-9-12-13-14-15

Check 2000-2800rpms on cylinder 3.

http://datazap.me/u/haste/denso-itv22-0?log=1&data=4-9-12-13-14-15


Log with the NGK, there is no negative correction.

Datalog #1:

http://datazap.me/u/haste/catless-c...uickspool-manifold?log=0&data=4-9-12-13-14-15

Datalog #2:

http://datazap.me/u/haste/catless-c...uickspool-manifold?log=1&data=4-9-12-13-14-15

Datalog #3:

http://datazap.me/u/haste/catless-c...uickspool-manifold?log=2&data=4-9-12-13-14-15


I will be purchasing a set of stock plugs and plan on posting my datalog results from that. My butt dyno doesn't feel a difference between the NGK or Denso plugs, but numbers don't lie and I prefer the numbers.


All runs done 4th gear from 2000-2200 rpm starting point. All runs were done at the same location as before.

 

[dyn085]

I would like to look at the logs but won't be able to until I get home. You'll definitely want to compare gaps and ensure both sets are the same for an even comparison. Same thing with the stock plugs, whenever you get them.

Also consider testing different gaps on one set of plugs to find out what's optimal for you, then maybe re-run you're comparison again. My car/tune preferred .026", fwiw.

 

[OffTheWall503]

Your charts are interesting. Did you get the Densos from Tune+ or from a vendor? I know if you get them from Tune+ Adam gaps them specifically for the Fiesta ST but I don't think he shares what the gap is.

Here are maps from Adam at Tune+.

I wonder if your Densos are not gapped right.

-Matt

 

[haste]

The Denso plugs I purchased came from Tune+.

 

[OffTheWall503]

I would like to see [MENTION=3805]Tune+[/MENTION] chime in with his thoughts then. I just paid for these plugs and seem to be doing ok but I specifically bought these with the idea that it would minimize correction. Maybe your Stage 3 map has something to do with it.

 

[Tune+]

The Denso plugs I purchased came from Tune+.

Double check the gaps to make sure nothing was damaged during shipping, or during install, you are looking to make sure they are all even. You probably won't have a feeler gauge to measure the gap accurately (I have .0005 increment gauges) so try with a .025" feeler and make sure all are about the same. Also make sure the brass connectors on the end are completely tight. If these are loose you will see negative corrections as you are getting poor connection.


Almost every Fiesta I tune has these plugs in it that they purchased from me, no issues to date with the plugs. The one issue I did have the plug was dropped into the cylinder during install and bent the ground strap and it almost had no gap!

 

[haste]

Will do, Adam. Thanks for the response.

I was careful installing these plugs, as always. I did not drop any. I don't think I'll have a chance to check the gap until next week.

 

[Tune+]

Will do, Adam. Thanks for the response.

I was careful installing these plugs, as always. I did not drop any. I don't think I'll have a chance to check the gap until next week.

We will get it sorted out, no worries. Even if I have to ship you another set.

 

[haste]

Forgot to update this thread. I pulled and checked the plugs with my feeler gauge and they were all fine. Nothing looked abnormal. After about two more tanks of fuel I stopped getting negative corrections. It must have been some mediocre gas.

 

[me32]

Good to hear

 

[Sam4]

An FYI - as an old parts guy, the "11" in the NGK stands for a 1.1mm gap, which off the top of my head is .044". I don't know what the Denso pre-gap is, but their catalog will tell you.

 

[Tune+]

That is correct, the NGK's are gapped pretty big off the shelf and need to be regapped.

I took a new look at the logs and the inconsistencies between the two sets of plugs is just from the tune in my opinion. There are throttle closures and the ignition corrections are all over the place. Ignition corrections should be consistent and be producing roughly the same positive corrections.

What I gathered from the logs is, you need a tune haha. Here is an example of what I am looking for when tuning.

 

[dyn085]

Most people don't know what they're looking for when it comes to determining if they have throttle closures or not. Using the trim function, trim your datalog to Accelerator Pedal Position % - 100%. Then pull up your ETC Angle Actual and it should read roughly 82 degrees during the same range. Anywhere that there's a sudden drop is a throttle closure. If you want to know what is causing the closure then you need to log Airflow Limit Source and bounce that off of Cobbs Monitor List, available for free download on their website.

Having consistent ignition corrections up to the max definitely looks nice but it's an indicator that there is still room for timing in the tune and that means there is still safe power left on the table. Different tuners use ignition corrections, knock sensor feedback, and OAR strategies differently so talk to them to find out what you should be seeing to find out if what you're seeing is ok.

Also, a 'negative correction' is any reduction in timing through the ignition correction, not just a timing correction that goes below zero. They are not necessarily a bad thing, depending on how your tuner users them, and are simply an indicator that the system is working as designed if knock (real or false) is encountered. The entire KS system is able to be calibrated differently so very few blanket statements apply across tuner choice.

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