HELP Heavy Chatter - New Clutch, Slave, and Pressure Plate. WHERE DID I GO WRONG?

[Siege]

Hey Team, I need some help.

I replaced my Flywheel, Clutch, Pressure Plate, Hardware, and TOB Assembly/Slave Cylinder thing. After replacement I had some issues. Here are the scenarios.

1.) Start Car - Clutch fully depressed, in neutral - NO ISSUES, sounds normal
2.) Car Running - Release Clutch, in neutral - Heavy Chatter / Knocking sound from Transmission.
- Not sound only shows up in the last 10% of clutch throw
3.) Car Running - Fully Depress Clutch, and engage 1st gear - No noise, but tires begin spinning. (press brakes and you stall engine)

Clutch pedal has similar feel. I bled the clutch at the slave cylinder/port by using a standard method you would for brakes. Not sure if that effects/or incorrect procedure.

Please let me know your thoughts. I just spend 12 hours to get this thing in and out because of the clutch slipping at 60k. My only guess is maybe the Throw-out bearing part might be faulty, or completely screwed up the install somehow. Please let me know!

 

[Sekred]

Sounds like you may have damage something during the installation, possibly the pressure plate diaphragm spring. You may have bent the individual forks of the diaphragm if the transmission was not lined up correctly. Is there any pedal pulsation when you first engage the clutch? I have done the transmission 3 times now and each time I found needed to bleed the slave twice to get a full pedal and proper disengagement.

 

[Siege]

Sounds like you may have damage something during the installation, possibly the pressure plate diaphragm spring. You may have bent the individual forks of the diaphragm if the transmission was not lined up correctly. Is there any pedal pulsation when you first engage the clutch? I have done the transmission 3 times now and each time I found needed to bleed the slave twice to get a full pedal and proper disengagement.

I was really hoping that wasn't the case. I was solo and had to lift it by myself into position. Realized I couldn't get it to seat then brought a hoist. The petal itself feels perfect. No pulsating, perfect / expected pressure. I guess I will try to pull it again tonight... This is awful.

 

[Siege]

Sounds like you may have damage something during the installation, possibly the pressure plate diaphragm spring. You may have bent the individual forks of the diaphragm if the transmission was not lined up correctly. Is there any pedal pulsation when you first engage the clutch? I have done the transmission 3 times now and each time I found needed to bleed the slave twice to get a full pedal and proper disengagement.

I was really hoping that wasn't the case. I was solo and had to lift it by myself into position. Realized I couldn't get it to seat then brought a hoist. The petal itself feels perfect. No pulsating, perfect / expected pressure. I guess I will try to pull it again tonight... This is awful.

 

[Intuit]

You'll want to start with the simplest, cheapest theory and progress to the worst possible one. But the fact that you're getting a lot of loud rattling, doesn't bode well. You'll likely have to tear into it again. A little rattling, you may be able to ignore. Be sure not to confuse the direct-injection engine noise.

Bleeding at the slave is proper practice, generally speaking.

The most simple and cheap theory is that you're not getting full extension at the slave cylinder. I have no experience with this one, but replaced one master on my prior car. There was an adjustment that could be made at the clutch pedal. It has a push-rod, who's length could be adjusted. In that case, very tiny adjustments made a big difference. There were specifications in the manual for clutch pedal "engage" and "free-play" heights. Second, the hydraulic system could require additional bleeding or/and the master and slave are leaking. The slave could only leak externally, while the master most often had internal leakage failures. It also had a compartmentalized reservoir that made it near impossible to read the clutch master cylinder reservoir independent of the brake. So your clutch could be bone dry, but the shared brake/master would show normal levels. As a result one could let it get low during bleeding and suck in a little air without realizing it. Diagnostic wise, one could have an assistant pump the clutch pedal while you verified proper slave cylinder movement and extension at the transmission side. Unfortunately the slave cylinder on may transmissions, is internal. So that method of checking for leaks and movement may not be an option.



If the hydraulic system checks out, then it becomes apparent that there is internal damage that will require disassembly of the transmission.

 

[Siege]

You'll want to start with the simplest, cheapest theory and progress to the worst possible one. But the fact that you're getting a lot of loud rattling, doesn't bode well. You'll likely have to tear into it again. A little rattling, you may be able to ignore. Be sure not to confuse the direct-injection engine noise.

Bleeding at the slave is proper practice, generally speaking.

The most simple and cheap theory is that you're not getting full extension at the slave cylinder. I have no experience with this one, but replaced one master on my prior car. There was an adjustment that could be made at the clutch pedal. It has a push-rod, who's length could be adjusted. In that case, very tiny adjustments made a big difference. There were specifications in the manual for clutch pedal "engage" and "free-play" heights. Second, the hydraulic system could require additional bleeding or/and the master and slave are leaking. The slave could only leak externally, while the master most often had internal leakage failures. It also had a compartmentalized reservoir that made it near impossible to read the clutch master cylinder reservoir independent of the brake. So your clutch could be bone dry, but the shared brake/master would show normal levels. As a result one could let it get low during bleeding and suck in a little air without realizing it. Diagnostic wise, one could have an assistant pump the clutch pedal while you verified proper slave cylinder movement and extension at the transmission side. Unfortunately the slave cylinder on may transmissions, is internal. So that method of checking for leaks and movement may not be an option.



If the hydraulic system checks out, then it becomes apparent that there is internal damage that will require disassembly of the transmission.

Unfortunately in this case our Throw Out Bearing/Release bearing assembly does not have a cable to it, but rather hard hydraulic line direct to the firewall (that uses the master cylinder you speak of mounted to the firewall). I bled the unit with help from a friend at the transmission to make sure it was full of fluid. Again full and good travel. It sounds to me that I have catastrophically ruined something when setting the transmission back in. I will remove it tonight and inspect it. I video taped the sounds, and it's literally to embarrassing to post. First time I have ever messed up a simple clutch install. so disappointed.

 

[Intuit]

The vehicle I was referring to, was all hydraulic as well.

 

[Siege]

Ok team, I removed the transmission for the 2nd Time! Hooray!

The culprit was *drum roll* A loose pressure plate! I found grinding/metal shavings from the bellhouse. The pressure plate rubbed against it. For some reason some of the bolts were loose. All parts were removed and inspected - everything looked in perfect condition.
I re-torqued the pressure plate multiple times, reassembled and boom. Everything was great. So thank you for the help, and sorry I lost my nerve at my first issue.

Now I just need to figure out how to properly bleed the clutch, I thought I was doing it correctly, but it's still soft - not sure what's up. Same is going with my brakes.

 

[Quisp]

I had this happen 2k after engine replacement under warranty. Dealer never said what was wrong but new flywheel , disc and pressure plate all replaced no charge.

 

[Siege]

Sooo Last update - The clutch switch out did not fix my shuddering issue. While impart some of it was clutch slip, the main culprit was actually misfires. I decided to pull my spark plugs and found one of the ceramic insulators was destroyed. Funny enough this is the 3rd time if replaced the spark plugs in 60k miles. Each time the plugs are mostly fowled and show markings of too-high of engine temp. These were all at stock tune until the last 1,000 miles. anyways, do other people find that they are switching plugs this often? All plugs are exact OEM/Motorcraft.

 

[Quisp]

I've gone to 1 step colder NGK. But put many miles tuned on stock plugs no problems.