Help me guess at my cars past

[Stkid93]

Hey guys,

I’m going to start off by saying this is going to be all speculation and I’m not trying to actually figure out my cars past. But, I would like some opinions. I tried to ask the dealer for the previous owners information so I could talk to them but obviously they couldn’t do that. Figured it was worth a shot.

I bought my car in January of 2023. The car was sold about a year before I bought it. It was a 2017 with 11k miles on it. It was bought out of needham heights Massachusetts From muzi motors (a family owned dealer that closed shortly after they sold the car) the car was bought in June of 2017 and like I said it was sold right around the end of 2021.

My obvious first assumption was because of such low miles, that it was someone’s track car and to stay away. But I started to notice some things. The car was 100% stock down to every last detail. It still has the stock intercooler, radiator, sound symposer, the car had never been tuned because when I brought it for warranty work they didn’t deny coverage. (Correct me if I’m wrong but even if you I marry the accessport dealers can still tell the ecu had been tuned at some point) so even if they returned it to stock, the tune would have left its mark. It even had the original tires still on it from when it was sold.

this led me to my next logical assumption, because the car still had the stock summer only tires and the owner lived in a very snowy part of the north east, there’s no way he drove that car in the snow for 4 years on summer only tires. Meaning this car was a summer only joy ride for the guy, which explained the low miles.

If we go off the average of 12k miles per year in the us, and we factor in that he probably only drove the car when the weather was above 50 degrees, we can safely assume he only drove the car maybe half the year at most and if it was his summer joy ride car he obviously had another car.

so, he only took the fist out on weekends or exceptionally nice days. Possibly hoping the car would keep a ton of value being so low mileage (which it did). So 11k miles in 4 years is absolutely within the realm of possibility. Does this explanation seem valid to any of you? Please feel free to offer other opinions.

again the big reasons I don’t think he modified and returned it to stock is

1)the accessport thing and the car never being tuned
2) it would have taken a tremendous amount of effort to keep every little stock part down to the original tires and then put them back on.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

That explanation makes sense to me. These cars are second car for a lot of people.

 

[ronniec687]

Definitely makes sense to me. I too have a 2017 and it’s been sitting in my garage for a year now. Its my second car and never sees winter. Just hit 50k. I bought it with 15.5k on the clock about 4 years ago.

 

[Frisk]

I don't think the ECU "mark" thing is true, but your explanation makes sense. it's essentially what I'm doing with mine.

 

[dhminer]

I don't think the ECU "mark" thing is true, but your explanation makes sense. it's essentially what I'm doing with mine.

My understanding is they can see how many times it’s been flashed, but not with what specifically.

 

[WannabeST]

I don't think the ECU "mark" thing is true, but your explanation makes sense. it's essentially what I'm doing with mine.

I have friends at various dealerships and they all pretty much can tell when a vehicle has been flashed. How or where exactly? no idea tbh. But I've heard multiple stories from multiple dealer friends telling me how a claim got denied due to a flash, even if it was flashed to stock with oem parts

 

[WannabeST]

Hey guys,

I’m going to start off by saying this is going to be all speculation and I’m not trying to actually figure out my cars past. But, I would like some opinions. I tried to ask the dealer for the previous owners information so I could talk to them but obviously they couldn’t do that. Figured it was worth a shot.

I bought my car in January of 2023. The car was sold about a year before I bought it. It was a 2017 with 11k miles on it. It was bought out of needham heights Massachusetts From muzi motors (a family owned dealer that closed shortly after they sold the car) the car was bought in June of 2017 and like I said it was sold right around the end of 2021.

My obvious first assumption was because of such low miles, that it was someone’s track car and to stay away. But I started to notice some things. The car was 100% stock down to every last detail. It still has the stock intercooler, radiator, sound symposer, the car had never been tuned because when I brought it for warranty work they didn’t deny coverage. (Correct me if I’m wrong but even if you I marry the accessport dealers can still tell the ecu had been tuned at some point) so even if they returned it to stock, the tune would have left its mark. It even had the original tires still on it from when it was sold.

this led me to my next logical assumption, because the car still had the stock summer only tires and the owner lived in a very snowy part of the north east, there’s no way he drove that car in the snow for 4 years on summer only tires. Meaning this car was a summer only joy ride for the guy, which explained the low miles.

If we go off the average of 12k miles per year in the us, and we factor in that he probably only drove the car when the weather was above 50 degrees, we can safely assume he only drove the car maybe half the year at most and if it was his summer joy ride car he obviously had another car.

so, he only took the fist out on weekends or exceptionally nice days. Possibly hoping the car would keep a ton of value being so low mileage (which it did). So 11k miles in 4 years is absolutely within the realm of possibility. Does this explanation seem valid to any of you? Please feel free to offer other opinions.

again the big reasons I don’t think he modified and returned it to stock is

1)the accessport thing and the car never being tuned
2) it would have taken a tremendous amount of effort to keep every little stock part down to the original tires and then put them back on.

Sounds reasonable to me. especially with the tires. I have an uncle with a tacoma TRD pro and he only puts maybe 3-5k miles a year on it because it's a weekend/ camping vehicle for him and it's always in his garage otherwise. In the future when I get my fiesta ST, it will primarily be a track/canyon car like my mustang so my SE can be just a daily. My Mustang currently only gets driven maybe 2-3x a month.

 

[Capri to ST]

I have friends at various dealerships and they all pretty much can tell when a vehicle has been flashed. How or where exactly? no idea tbh. But I've heard multiple stories from multiple dealer friends telling me how a claim got denied due to a flash, even if it was flashed to stock with oem parts

I'm going to attach a document I found in which Ford tells dealers how to look for performance modifications, and possibly deny warranty claims if they are found. Basically they have an ignition counter, they can tell how many times a car has been started since it was flashed. If that's inconsistent with the age or service history of the car, then that tells them that it has probably been flashed.
Here's a quote from the document-
Compare ignition counter (IGNCNTR) value to vehicle service history. If counter value is
abnormally low and there is no history of a recent reflash, investigate for an unauthorized
reflash and signs of aftermarket tuner connections.

Here is the document attached, it's very detailed, they have quite a number of ways to look for modifications. On page 16, it discusses determining the existence of an aftermarket calibration.

 

[Frisk]

Oooh, super interesting! thanks for posting that.

 

[NOVA_Ranger]

Sounds like you bought somebody's well-maintained and stock second/fun vehicle. I was able to find something similar about a year ago, with a few extra miles on the clock.

Having tuned several of my vehicle over the years, 2 of which went in for extensive warranty work at some point, I've never seen evidence that Ford and/or dealerships techs do any sort of "forensics" to hunt down tuned vehicles. On one of my vehicles (2013 SHO), I even told the service manager my car was tuned and asked if he needed it back to stock before they worked on suspension/steering issues. With my 2019 Ranger, I just tuned it back to stock before they rebuilt a faulty transmission...never mentioned it and they never asked. I suppose if you go crazy on a tune/mods and grenade the engine, they might start asking questions. I never subscribed to the "tune anxiety" that I see on a lot of forums and no issues here to date, but to each their own.

 

[rallytaff]

Have never had a problem taking my car for work at the dealer. They know it's tweaked but no questions asked. Treat them right, they'll look after you.

 

[NATYPE]

Weren't there insane deals on leases for these later in their life? I'm positive that's where my 18 came from. Dealer maintained, mileage in the teens, no signs of modification etc. Seemed to make perfect sense.

 

[Frisk]

I got mine (19) from Carmax with 1380 miles on it in 2021, and the carfax reports said it traveled from a dealership in kansas to a dealership in florida where it was bought by a private individual. They (for some reason) put bilsteins on it and installed a mishimoto coolant temp sensor block, but apparently never put the sensor in. For whatever reason (assuming life happened at great speed) they drove it to Michigan and sold it a year and change after their purchase.

I assume the plan was to track the car, but that apparently never happened. Most of the mileage when I got it was the distance between where it was initially sold and where I bought it.

 

[WannabeST]

I'm going to attach a document I found in which Ford tells dealers how to look for performance modifications, and possibly deny warranty claims if they are found. Basically they have an ignition counter, they can tell how many times a car has been started since it was flashed. If that's inconsistent with the age or service history of the car, then that tells them that it has probably been flashed.
Here's a quote from the document-
Compare ignition counter (IGNCNTR) value to vehicle service history. If counter value is
abnormally low and there is no history of a recent reflash, investigate for an unauthorized
reflash and signs of aftermarket tuner connections.

Here is the document attached, it's very detailed, they have quite a number of ways to look for modifications. On page 16, it discusses determining the existence of an aftermarket calibration.

I believe it, on my obd2 scanner, I can see how many times the car has been started and miles driven since the codes get cleared. I've used it a few times to diagnosis issues on personal cars. I wouldn't be surprised if that is possible with being flashed also.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm going to attach a document I found in which Ford tells dealers how to look for performance modifications, and possibly deny warranty claims if they are found. Basically they have an ignition counter, they can tell how many times a car has been started since it was flashed. If that's inconsistent with the age or service history of the car, then that tells them that it has probably been flashed.
Here's a quote from the document-
Compare ignition counter (IGNCNTR) value to vehicle service history. If counter value is
abnormally low and there is no history of a recent reflash, investigate for an unauthorized
reflash and signs of aftermarket tuner connections.

Here is the document attached, it's very detailed, they have quite a number of ways to look for modifications. On page 16, it discusses determining the existence of an aftermarket calibration.

I've always wondered if that ignition counter 'counts' a battery disconnect the same as a flash?!?

 

[Stkid93]

I’m not exactly sure how each company checks this. The ignition cycle explanation makes sense. i have always heard the high end scan tools have a way to see if the ecu had ever been tuned. But I know for a fact company’s have ways of seeing if a car has been tuned. They may not be able to say 100% the car was tuned. But they can make very educated guesses based on what they find. Will every dealer care? No. Will some dealers be cool And the look the other way? yes. but they 100% can void your warranty.

This is what lead to the lawsuit that made it illegal for companies to deny warranty claims for stuff that has nothing to do with the modification. For example if you have lower springs and your engine blows. They cannot void your engine warranty for the springs. They can however refuse any suspension claims. I don’t remember the exact lawsuit but it was huge In the car modification game and heavily benefits the buyers. now the dealer has to provide legit proof that your mod directly caused or could have directly caused the issue

 

[XR650R]

Lucky you! You found the little old lady from Pasadena who only drove her car to church on Sunday's car.
Keep it bone stock.

 

[Stkid93]

I have already done some very minor mods such as intercooler and motor mount and intake and tune but I kept all the stock parts. I just couldn’t keep it stock as much as I wanted to. But I kept all the stock parts like I said

 

[XR650R]

Perfect.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I don’t remember the exact lawsuit but it was huge In the car modification game and heavily benefits the buyers. now the dealer has to provide legit proof that your mod directly caused or could have directly caused the issue

I am not sure of the specific court case which informed it's legislative development, and signing into law, but it is The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.