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Hybrid turbo
- Thread starter Stkid93
- Start date
I could see a shop charging 7-8hrs to swap a turbo. I would highly recommend attempting your self if you are some what mechanically inclined, or the install could cost almost as much as the turbo. Any upgraded turbo will make 260-280 on 91/93 pump premium fuel. Most hybrid turbos are capable of low to mid 300s whp if you have enough fueling. To hit your goal of 300-320whp, I'd recommend getting a set of the Bosch injectors (https://whoosh-motorsports.myshopif...-st-free-shipping?_pos=2&_sid=bbb347630&_ss=r) as you can make near 350whp with them, if the turbo is capable. If you haven't chose a turbo yet, I'd recommend going with either the Whoosh hybrid or the s280. I have had both and they are tons of fun. Shoot me a message if you need any help!
OP
Thread Starter
#3
Thread Starter
#3
yea there's no way i would trust myself changing a turbo. I took 4 years of automotive class in highschool but we never did anything that advanced. I also dont have any tools really. Plus my car is a 2017 with only 12k miles i would hate to mess something up and destroy whats basically a brand new car, I think my best bet would to pay a mechanic who is willing to do the install as a side job and would charge much less than the typical shop labor.
Be careful of who you chose to do the install if done on the side* You would be better off finding another Member on the forum who is near you and seeing if you can do it over the course of the weekend. But remember Parts are harder to get on the weekend especially if its OEM/ Fomoco stuff. So come prepared with all gaskets and Bolts ..Nuts ..etc. and Buy extra because it cant hurt...especially if you butter finger a nut or bolt into the precipice of the engine bay cave
Turbo swap really isn’t hard. Learn from my mistake - even the “experts” can fuck up the install as they did on mine. Almost had to get a new head due to their incompetence. I had never done anything like a turbo swap before, but the folks on this forum were immensely helpful and I got it done perfectly. 2 years later, I’ve had the turbo on/off at least 5 times with each one taking less time than the previous.
Hit up some homies on here, I’m sure if there’s someone nearby they’ll help. Otherwise take it slow and hit us up with pics, videos, etc. and we’ll help along the way.
if you do elect to have a shop do it, expect to pay around $1,000 +/- a few hundred.
There are tons of good turbos out there. S280, whoosh, Garrett, etc. it just depends what power band you’re after. Read on here like a mofo and decide from there.
Hit up some homies on here, I’m sure if there’s someone nearby they’ll help. Otherwise take it slow and hit us up with pics, videos, etc. and we’ll help along the way.
if you do elect to have a shop do it, expect to pay around $1,000 +/- a few hundred.
There are tons of good turbos out there. S280, whoosh, Garrett, etc. it just depends what power band you’re after. Read on here like a mofo and decide from there.
Turbo swap is all about access. It's easiest to take out from the top. Possible with jackstands and 10, 13, 15mm sockets, a torx t30 and some hose clamps.
I too had no experience as in only oil changes and brakes in my repertoire, prior to doing a turbo swap. It felt so good to get it running afterwards, I actually accomplished my task. Well after that I have had the entire engine in and out by myself 3 times. Experience is learned only one way, just do it
I too had no experience as in only oil changes and brakes in my repertoire, prior to doing a turbo swap. It felt so good to get it running afterwards, I actually accomplished my task. Well after that I have had the entire engine in and out by myself 3 times. Experience is learned only one way, just do it
can't recommend enough reading as much as you can on this forum before making any big ticket/time intensive purchase. read through the s280 turbo thread, any number of the hybrid turbo threads, and the uprated bosch injector thread.
pretty much filter out anything before 2020 when it comes to turbos/fueling. there's really good info, no doubt. but a lot of it is based around aux fueling since no one had tried uprated injectors yet and the s280 really hadn't won the community over before 2020. garrett was really the only reliable big turbo kit in town until turbo technics came out with their s280. Even still, the s280 isn't a true BT, it's just a lot bigger than the hybrid turbos that get put on our engines.
also i'm not knocking your choices, but you *really* need to decide how important hitting 300WHP is to you. getting turbos to 260-280WHP is pretty straightforward and the stock Fiesta can handle it well. that last 30-60WHP is something you're never really gonna see in responsible street/backroad driving and you're going to have to upgrade a lot of things to get good reliability.
lol, all that said i really wanna hit 330+WHP too and all my plans are to that end. good luck!
also a quick list of turbos you'll come across on this forum from biggest (and coincidentally most expensive) to smallest:
Garrett g25-550 (waaaay outta most people's depth and the Fiesta engine cannot handle what this turbo can dish out...but some brave souls still try)
Garrett gtx2860r (the true big turbo that some Fiesta tuners here love. a lot of lag compared to what's below here but it's ball bearing turbo with a long history and great pedigree)
TurboTechnics S280 (journal bearing big turbo that most tuners here swear by but don't just go by what people say, do your own research; way better on lag than a Garrett and more linear power/torque delivery than a hybrid turbo)
pumaspeed x47(r) ("we don't talk about pumaspeed" "they who shall not be named" ; they are one of the biggest players in England but had some serious issues at one point with their hybrid turbos and screwed over the North American market pretty bad on their exit. there are tuners here who still run and love the x47 platform and with the British Pound cratering in value it's a lot of turbo for the amount you have to pay for it. i've read that pumaspeed fixed whatever issues the original turbo had but not sure. that said you won't get as much support troubleshooting it since there aren't that many people in the States who have it)
whoosh hybrid (the gold standard in hybrid turbos in the States. great value and can keep it simple and just swap the OEM turbo with the whoosh and you're getting 260ishWHP instantly without having to change anything else. that said it's been argued the S280 install is just as straightforward and the whoosh hybrid does have a ceiling. you can push it past 300WHP with ethanol mix and uprated injectors but a lot of the tuner crowd here recommend against that. you're sacrificing reliability for power in ways you don't have to with other turbo systems. however if you decide you're good with 260-280WHP you can't go wrong with the whoosh.)
pretty much filter out anything before 2020 when it comes to turbos/fueling. there's really good info, no doubt. but a lot of it is based around aux fueling since no one had tried uprated injectors yet and the s280 really hadn't won the community over before 2020. garrett was really the only reliable big turbo kit in town until turbo technics came out with their s280. Even still, the s280 isn't a true BT, it's just a lot bigger than the hybrid turbos that get put on our engines.
also i'm not knocking your choices, but you *really* need to decide how important hitting 300WHP is to you. getting turbos to 260-280WHP is pretty straightforward and the stock Fiesta can handle it well. that last 30-60WHP is something you're never really gonna see in responsible street/backroad driving and you're going to have to upgrade a lot of things to get good reliability.
lol, all that said i really wanna hit 330+WHP too and all my plans are to that end. good luck!
also a quick list of turbos you'll come across on this forum from biggest (and coincidentally most expensive) to smallest:
Garrett g25-550 (waaaay outta most people's depth and the Fiesta engine cannot handle what this turbo can dish out...but some brave souls still try)
Garrett gtx2860r (the true big turbo that some Fiesta tuners here love. a lot of lag compared to what's below here but it's ball bearing turbo with a long history and great pedigree)
TurboTechnics S280 (journal bearing big turbo that most tuners here swear by but don't just go by what people say, do your own research; way better on lag than a Garrett and more linear power/torque delivery than a hybrid turbo)
pumaspeed x47(r) ("we don't talk about pumaspeed" "they who shall not be named" ; they are one of the biggest players in England but had some serious issues at one point with their hybrid turbos and screwed over the North American market pretty bad on their exit. there are tuners here who still run and love the x47 platform and with the British Pound cratering in value it's a lot of turbo for the amount you have to pay for it. i've read that pumaspeed fixed whatever issues the original turbo had but not sure. that said you won't get as much support troubleshooting it since there aren't that many people in the States who have it)
whoosh hybrid (the gold standard in hybrid turbos in the States. great value and can keep it simple and just swap the OEM turbo with the whoosh and you're getting 260ishWHP instantly without having to change anything else. that said it's been argued the S280 install is just as straightforward and the whoosh hybrid does have a ceiling. you can push it past 300WHP with ethanol mix and uprated injectors but a lot of the tuner crowd here recommend against that. you're sacrificing reliability for power in ways you don't have to with other turbo systems. however if you decide you're good with 260-280WHP you can't go wrong with the whoosh.)
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OP
Thread Starter
#9
Thread Starter
#9
The horsepower mark isn’t so important to me. 280 instead of 300 is perfectly fine. It’s just an number at the end of the day. Driving experience is what it’s all about. I want to keep the low end Torque while gaining 60-80 horsepower up top. I really like the idea of doing it with someone from the forum. That way I can learn too. I would need to find someone with a driveway or garage. I only have street parking
sounds like you're goals are a perfect candidate for a whoosh hybrid
for whatever it's worth, the late spring might see some hybrid turbo tuners here upgrade to big turbo and put their hybrid up for sale; i would suggest you wait for that opportunity and see if the seller is within driving distance and is cool with you installing it at their place with them helping you out for a couple hundred for the trouble.
it's worth a shot and you'll be saving a ton of scratch with peace of mind to boot.
edit: turbo R&R is like a 4-6hr job all in for someone who has done it before (especially if you don't care about putting the heat shield back on...or so i've read) so if you have a base tune ready to load you could be in and out in an afternoon
for whatever it's worth, the late spring might see some hybrid turbo tuners here upgrade to big turbo and put their hybrid up for sale; i would suggest you wait for that opportunity and see if the seller is within driving distance and is cool with you installing it at their place with them helping you out for a couple hundred for the trouble.
it's worth a shot and you'll be saving a ton of scratch with peace of mind to boot.
edit: turbo R&R is like a 4-6hr job all in for someone who has done it before (especially if you don't care about putting the heat shield back on...or so i've read) so if you have a base tune ready to load you could be in and out in an afternoon
You’re correct i have a max effort whoosh setup with single port 330-340whp on e40 is all I’ll ever get the s280 can and does go beyond this without much issue and that’s because it’s based on the larger K04 vs k39 for the whoosh
Also pumaspeed is garbage that X57 ruined a few good tuner’s reputations
Also pumaspeed is garbage that X57 ruined a few good tuner’s reputations
OP
Thread Starter
#13
Thread Starter
#13
ok so from what ive read it sounds like this is how the turbos stack up, (smallest to largest). please correct me if I'm wrong
stock turbo (230-240 wheel max)
pumaspeed x37 (250-260 wheel)
mountune mrx turbo (250-270 wheel)
whoosh hybrid (260-320 wheel)
pumaspeed x47 (370 max wheel)
s280 (400-450 wheel max?)
pumaspeed x57 450 wheel?
Garrett gtx2860r
Garrett g25-550
stock turbo (230-240 wheel max)
pumaspeed x37 (250-260 wheel)
mountune mrx turbo (250-270 wheel)
whoosh hybrid (260-320 wheel)
pumaspeed x47 (370 max wheel)
s280 (400-450 wheel max?)
pumaspeed x57 450 wheel?
Garrett gtx2860r
Garrett g25-550
you should just cap it at 400WHP. you're grenading the stock engine at that point. regardless of turbo or upgraded internals. based on everything i've read i'm not believing any 450WHP claim unless it's $10-20K completely rebuilt engine.
edit: there's a dude (i think his name was mrx330) who went from the mrx turbo to a borg warner turbo and really pushed the limits of what a streetable fiesta could do. i have no idea what kinda power he put down but he damaged the engine shortly after completing his build and was never heard from on the forum again. a few people know him in IRL. don't know the details but he shared a lot of knowledge on here but was a bit...stubborn.
edit the edit: and to get those higher numbers you need a lot of real R&D behind it. like the Peron s280 kit or the WOR Fabrications full GTX2860R build as a baseline or have a garage custom fabricate you parts (which i think is what mrx330 did with his borg warner build). and then you need to find a reputable tuner who has the green light to risk turning your engine into a grenade
edit: there's a dude (i think his name was mrx330) who went from the mrx turbo to a borg warner turbo and really pushed the limits of what a streetable fiesta could do. i have no idea what kinda power he put down but he damaged the engine shortly after completing his build and was never heard from on the forum again. a few people know him in IRL. don't know the details but he shared a lot of knowledge on here but was a bit...stubborn.
edit the edit: and to get those higher numbers you need a lot of real R&D behind it. like the Peron s280 kit or the WOR Fabrications full GTX2860R build as a baseline or have a garage custom fabricate you parts (which i think is what mrx330 did with his borg warner build). and then you need to find a reputable tuner who has the green light to risk turning your engine into a grenade
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OP
Thread Starter
#15
Thread Starter
#15
personally, i have no plans to go over about 280-320 wheel horsepower, for many reasons
1) our car weighs 2700 pounds, that's weight the heavy stock exhaust, wheels etc. just replacing the exhaust system probably saves you 30-40 pounds, and if I really wanted I could take out the back seats and get it down to 2500. 300-320 wheel in a car like ours is more than enough for pretty much anyone on this forum to handle and have fun with. I had 320 wheel in my srt4 neon which weighed about 2900 lbs and that thing was ridiculous. i never lost a race in it. I remember one time I raced a bolt on sti. by the time it was over I could barely even see his car anymore.
2) my car is my daily and only car, it has 12k miles on it and the last thing I want is to blow up what is basically a brand new car.
3) to safely get to 300-320 wheel requires aux fueling or the upgraded HPFP and injectors. that's where these cars start to get really expensive and you stop seeing as much value per dollar.
4) I do mostly city driving, and rarely have the chance to get my car into the high rpms on a regular basis. So low and mid range torque is much more important to me that big horsepower numbers. I like the fact that the car still feels quick even when you arent at rpms. you start to lose that as you go bigger on the turbo
1) our car weighs 2700 pounds, that's weight the heavy stock exhaust, wheels etc. just replacing the exhaust system probably saves you 30-40 pounds, and if I really wanted I could take out the back seats and get it down to 2500. 300-320 wheel in a car like ours is more than enough for pretty much anyone on this forum to handle and have fun with. I had 320 wheel in my srt4 neon which weighed about 2900 lbs and that thing was ridiculous. i never lost a race in it. I remember one time I raced a bolt on sti. by the time it was over I could barely even see his car anymore.
2) my car is my daily and only car, it has 12k miles on it and the last thing I want is to blow up what is basically a brand new car.
3) to safely get to 300-320 wheel requires aux fueling or the upgraded HPFP and injectors. that's where these cars start to get really expensive and you stop seeing as much value per dollar.
4) I do mostly city driving, and rarely have the chance to get my car into the high rpms on a regular basis. So low and mid range torque is much more important to me that big horsepower numbers. I like the fact that the car still feels quick even when you arent at rpms. you start to lose that as you go bigger on the turbo
fwiw i have had a x37 turbo since my 14 was almost new. a good set of sockets and wrenches and the swap was not hard. good set starts at sk, mac or matco. good tools do not round off or slip/break/strip hardware.
...also learned the hard way you need a good intercooler such as a cpe. heatsoak on a hot day kills hp.
...also learned the hard way you need a good intercooler such as a cpe. heatsoak on a hot day kills hp.
OP
Thread Starter
#20
Thread Starter
#20
Wait really? I believe dizzy tested then upgraded injectors without upgrading the hpfp and it actually made things worse. As the hpfp now has an even hard time keeping up with the demand of the injectors and the pressure plummeted. He was adamant that you need to do both if you go that route. How much power do you make with just the injectors ?
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