Is a bigger FMIC a must with stock turbo boost increase?

[TalkToTheFiST]

So for anybody who partook in my last few threads on planning my first few mods, i'll recap. Have a RMM and CAI already, wanting to plan future mods based on price. My thread last week i think i mentioned i ultimately wanted to get to 300hp, however realistic that is on my timeline and budget. So the first step seemed to be a tuner (probably Cobb) and a stage 1 tune. Then a few months later grab a bigger FMIC and get a stage 2 tune. After that it's up in the air and would take some planning.

Spent most of the week looking for used Cobb APs and no luck. So i can keep looking for weeks or months but i decided to try something else for now. I know i know, a race chip? Of all the "chips" out there, these seem to be the best option and well designed. So my main concern is heat. These things basically increase boost, so i naturally started thinking IC. I don't know exactly how much boost they are adding, i got the cheapest version to try it out at $249 from RACE CHIP.

So according to their site they say 37hp/42tq, should i worry about driving with it a few months without a bigger FMIC? I can install it and leave it set off till i get a new IC if i have to but i figured somebody else out there has tweaked boost in whatever way and has experience with heat and wear. My car only has 32k miles and is in good condition mechanically, just looking for opinions from anybody who has played with boost with the stock turbo.

Another thing i liked about this chips is, in theory, you can still apply other traditional tunes and they are supposed to stack with the chip boost since it's added to the tail end of the value. So if the figures are true, a stage 1 at 220 bhp with the chip will get close to 260hp, stage 2 tune starts approaching 300bhp.

To be clear i absolutely won't even get a stage 1 till i have my FMIC, a better IC is my next step. This chip is advertised as a safe mod and many people online have reviewed it, i've heard a few claim close to 100k miles with the chip in and no issues. I knew people here tend to be more traditional but im just looking for opinions, even the mean ones 😭 . Have you tried this particular chip, have you increased stock turbo boost in any other way? What are the risks for short term use on a stock IC?

Fire away !

 

[Dpro]

First off you will never get 260HP on the stock Turbo . Its too small. It falls flat on its face at 5500 and starts to blow hot air .

Yes the stock intercooler is small and if you drive your car spiritedly during the summer you can heat soak it. That will result in a loss of power.

That is also the reason that a lot of us recommend a AP , RMM and intercooler as wise first mods. I also happen to think an Aluminum radiator is wise too as the factory radiator is small as well. Factory stuff will do fine in short bursts but any sustained periods of time its wiser to do these things.


I am not a fan of a pre programmed chip because most of the tuners who tune for access ports really know these engines and tuning them. They have been doing it for 5 years now. Plus they can fine tune it for you according to your data logs.

That is vastly superior to buying a pre programmed chip tune.
You can get a Whoosh version 1 intercooler for like 200-$300 you can find used AP all day long for $300-400 . Buying a tune like a Dizzy tune is another $75-125 depending on how many variations you want.
Be patient look on facebook I see AP’s pop up almost everyday. IF you can’t find one you are not looking hard enough.

 

[Brianmc27]

I think you’re making it too complicated. Buy an used Cobb AP3 (you can get one for ~$50-$75 more than you would spend on that questionable chip). The Cobb will make every bit of possible power you can squeeze out of the car.

After the Cobb, buy a stage one tune from Dizzy or Stratified for $75 or a lifetime tune from JST or Tune+. If you want to save money just run Cobb
Stage 1.

Save money and buy an FMIC ($285 from Whoosh). Upgrade to stage 2 tune or e30.

Voila. You’re done. (300hp is in your dreams unless you spend $1500 more and get a hybrid/big turbo).

In the meantime, get an upgraded RMM ($95 from Whoosh) and a drop-in filter ($40).

After all that, with an e30 tune, you’ll be making ~230hp and ~300 torques. All in for under $1k.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

First off you will never get 260HP on the stock Turbo . Its too small. It falls flat on its face at 5500 and starts to blow hot air .

Yes the stock intercooler is small and if you drive your car spiritedly during the summer you can heat soak it. That will result in a loss of power.

That is also the reason that a lot of us recommend a AP , RMM and intercooler as wise first mods. I also happen to think an Aluminum radiator is wise too as the factory radiator is small as well. Factory stuff will do fine in short bursts but any sustained periods of time its wiser to do these things.


I am not a fan of a pre programmed chip because most of the tuners who tune for access ports really know these engines and tuning them. They have been doing it for 5 years now. Plus they can fine tune it for you according to your data logs.

That is vastly superior to buying a pre programmed chip tune.
You can get a Whoosh version 1 intercooler for like 200-$300 you can find used AP all day long for $300-400 . Buying a tune like a Dizzy tune is another $75-125 depending on how many variations you want.
Be patient look on facebook I see AP’s pop up almost everyday. IF you can’t find one you are not looking hard enough.

Heya D. I will still keep an eye out for an AP at a good price, and luckily things are cooling down where i live finally, fall is on the way. I do have an RMM already so no worries there. I agree most of the chips out there seemed flakey, these race chip guys are in Germany and seem to know what they are doing. The Whoosh IC is probably the one i will get in a couple months, gotta give the wife a little time to forget what i've spent this year 😎

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

I think you’re making it too complicated. Buy an used Cobb AP3 (you can get one for ~$50-$75 more than you would spend on that questionable chip). The Cobb will make every bit of possible power you can squeeze out of the car.

After the Cobb, buy a stage one tune from Dizzy or Stratified for $75 or a lifetime tune from JST or Tune+. If you want to save money just run Cobb
Stage 1.

Save money and buy an FMIC ($285 from Whoosh). Upgrade to stage 2 tune or e30.

Voila. You’re done. (300hp is in your dreams unless you spend $1500 more and get a hybrid/big turbo).

In the meantime, get an upgraded RMM ($95 from Whoosh) and a drop-in filter ($40).

After all that, with an e30 tune, you’ll be making ~230hp and ~300 torques. All in for under $1k.

Hi Brian. I agree an AP is still a good idea and i will get one, im just waiting on that. What i was looking for first was, assuming it was legit and safe enough (and it looks to be), to make the best price/power buys first. Assuming this chip does what they say, i don't think there's another $250 you can spend that will get me 36hp no?

Even if i found a AP for that price, im only really good for a stage 1 tune right? All i've read says that gets me to like 215hp or something like that. And i will do that too im just doing it next buy. Another thing, RaceChip has a 30 day return period, even if you just aren't satisfied with the performance. So if it heat soaks in 5 minutes or for some reason is a dud product, im only out shipping back to them.

All in all i think it will work. I also have a RMM already, CAI too. So im betting this chip gives me a good bump to power till i get ready to do a stage 1 and go further, as far as my stock turbo will take me anyway. If i return it i'll probly turn around and buy a Whoosh FMIC and then look for an AP. But im excited to see if the chip does what it says !

 

[FJ16]

Forget the race chip - buy a used AP3 (Sale forums here, Ebay, etc) then go for the RMM/FMIC/Filter/Tune.

 

[Dpro]

Heya D. I will still keep an eye out for an AP at a good price, and luckily things are cooling down where i live finally, fall is on the way. I do have an RMM already so no worries there. I agree most of the chips out there seemed flakey, these race chip guys are in Germany and seem to know what they are doing. The Whoosh IC is probably the one i will get in a couple months, gotta give the wife a little time to forget what i've spent this year 😎

Only reason they do chips over there is they do not have AP’s in Europe. A few of the British companies have tuners for the car but nothing to the extent of an AP. This is one area of the car where being stateside really plays in our favor. AP’s are superior in every way shape and form as it allows you to monitor data log and then send back to the data to the tuner to modify and adjust the tune specifically to how your car is running. Different temps aka humidty or not . Elevation, bolt on parts like , intakes, crossover pipes, charge pipes intercoolers etc... can effect tunes. With a chip your are stuck with one tune only that cannot be tweaked for your situation.
Just get off the chip tune train and get an AP you will be happy with the freedom it gives you,.

 

[Phishy]

From what I can tell making 30+ HP on this car with pump gas with the stock IC is either flatout unsafe or impossible. Don't over think it. Hold off and do the AP or nothing yet. The car has enough power stock to explore, keep figuring out how to drive all of it and add the power when you can do it the right way.

 

[MRX330]

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[TalkToTheFiST]

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Im here to provide entertaining threads 🥳

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

From what I can tell making 30+ HP on this car with pump gas with the stock IC is either flatout unsafe or impossible. Don't over think it. Hold off and do the AP or nothing yet. The car has enough power stock to explore, keep figuring out how to drive all of it and add the power when you can do it the right way.

Well i can help with the "impossible" part, i might not be able to give exact dyno numbers (yet) but i can tell you my before and after numbers (like a 35-80mph ect) which give us a feel for the benefit. If it's garbage im out like $10 shipping to return it.

I also purposely got the cheapest one as it won't be pushing the stock turbo as far into overboost. The S version is supposed to provide 37hp/42tq, while the GTS model is quoted as 55/63 which is like 50% more. Most people review the GTS version and don't have any issues even long term, so i doubt the 37/42 boost will cause me problems, and with a better FMIC coming in a couple months, even less risk.

I also think it's interesting that on their site when you look up different cars, the numbers change, presumably bc they are using different tunes for each car. They also say they tune based on stock setups, which means if you bolt on more robust parts like aftermarket FMIC and CAI, it's that much easier on the engine.

 

[MRX330]

Im here to provide entertaining threads 🥳

Thank god my finger hurts

 

[Spork1569]

Well i can help with the "impossible" part, i might not be able to give exact dyno numbers (yet) but i can tell you my before and after numbers (like a 35-80mph ect) which give us a feel for the benefit. If it's garbage im out like $10 shipping to return it.

I also purposely got the cheapest one as it won't be pushing the stock turbo as far into overboost. The S version is supposed to provide 37hp/42tq, while the GTS model is quoted as 55/63 which is like 50% more. Most people review the GTS version and don't have any issues even long term, so i doubt the 37/42 boost will cause me problems, and with a better FMIC coming in a couple months, even less risk.

I also think it's interesting that on their site when you look up different cars, the numbers change, presumably bc they are using different tunes for each car. They also say they tune based on stock setups, which means if you bolt on more robust parts like aftermarket FMIC and CAI, it's that much easier on the engine.

I for one am interested in the results if you do end up going the chip path, you seem to be very committed to it so I'd love an update if and when it happens.

I do think most people warn against it due to the fact that the car has been out for a few years, and the trial and error has already been done for you if you read past threads on how to get the most safe power our car. People have been modding this thing since it was released and have narrowed it down in terms of what works and what doesn't.

Basically the AP+ IC and E30 tune is the most generally accepted way to max out the stock turbo, and even then seeing 230 or so HP is realistically what you'd be making. I don't see pushing anything near the 300 you'd want until you upgrade to at least a pretty powerful hybrid turbo/ big Turbo. Our small turbo can only push so much air into the engine before maxing out, no matter what the ECU tells it.

I'm interested as to what the chip does and if it's comparable to a flash tune from a Cobb AP or pro tuner. I do however think it wouldn't stack with a tune and probably be overwritten of anything if you do end up going with an AP down the line.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

I for one am interested in the results if you do end up going the chip path, you seem to be very committed to it so I'd love an update if and when it happens.

I do think most people warn against it due to the fact that the car has been out for a few years, and the trial and error has already been done for you if you read past threads on how to get the most safe power our car. People have been modding this thing since it was released and have narrowed it down in terms of what works and what doesn't.

Basically the AP+ IC and E30 tune is the most generally accepted way to max out the stock turbo, and even then seeing 230 or so HP is realistically what you'd be making. I don't see pushing anything near the 300 you'd want until you upgrade to at least a pretty powerful hybrid turbo/ big Turbo. Our small turbo can only push so much air into the engine before maxing out, no matter what the ECU tells it.

I'm interested as to what the chip does and if it's comparable to a flash tune from a Cobb AP or pro tuner. I do however think it wouldn't stack with a tune and probably be overwritten of anything if you do end up going with an AP down the line.

Hiya Spork! So, im as committed as $10 or so is worth to you. If it's garbage (i doubt it will be), that's the cost of a return. But im excited too bc i think it will work. It's pretty simple, a stock FIST specific tune (but on the tail end, to alter the ECU measurements) to overboost the turbo. I ordered it this morning so i imagine it will be here by early to mid next week, late next week for sure but probably sooner.

I will definitely stay active in this thread (im sure people will have plenty to say lol) and update as soon as i get it in. As for adding it with a standard tune, here's my understanding. A "tune" isn't anything special really, it's essentially a program for the ECU. We already have a tune from the factory, it's just conservative, so a tune from an AP ect aren't anything different. They just give different perimeters for more power.

So it made sense, if the chip is sending a reduced pressure reading to the stock tune, resulting in increased boost, then it should work the same for any other tune right? The exception will be if as you said, the maximum boost is reached for the stock turbo with the ECU tune alone, but is that really what a OTS or canned tune gets us?

I also gotta say, i have no idea what E30 is and have no plans to use it, im a 93 octane guy, if im somewhere new and can't find it i go 91. So i will never get that tune to max out the stock turbo even (im assuming it's stage 2 + E30?) so maybe for somebody like me, a OTS tune has room to push the turbo further and work with stacking?

All speculation of course, i know the least of anybody here but sometimes it helps to look with new eyes.

 

[RubenZZZ]

E30 refers to a mixing of premium 91/93 gasoline with E85 to make a 30% ethanol blend.



Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[danbfree]

I'll just put this out there as devil's advocate... An intercooler upgrade is definitely one of the more important upgrades for sure, but it's not the end of the world by any means if you just want a pull here or there like most people actually drive. Instead, it's been given this mythical status as absolutely 100% required when I have an e30 tune and make just as much power as anyone on a stock tune with a stock intercooler, I just can't expect to go track racing in 100 degree heat, but I drag raced occasionally for fun with barely 5 minutes between runs and it's no prob on ethanol.

Only device other than an AP that is worth anything is a FlowMaster Delta boost module. Our biggest vendor Ron at Whoosh wouldn't sell it if it was junk. Gives you up to 4 psi added boost without flashing anything so 100% guaranteed to maintain warranty by simply unplugging. It's $250 so really an AP is the way to go anyway, but at least this thing really works, gives you like 20hp/30tq but that's it.

 

[Spork1569]

I'll just put this out there as devil's advocate... An intercooler upgrade is definitely one of the more important upgrades for sure, but it's not the end of the world by any means if you just want a pull here or there like most people actually drive. Instead, it's been given this mythical status as absolutely 100% required when I have an e30 tune and make just as much power as anyone on a stock time with a stick intercooler, I just can't expect to go track racing in 100 degree heat, but I drag raced occasionally for fun with barely 5 minutes between runs and it's no prob on ethanol.

Only device other than an AP that is worth anything is a FlowMaster Delta boost module. Our biggest vendor Ron at Whoosh wouldn't sell it if it was junk. Gives you up to 4 psi added boost without flashing anything so 100% guaranteed to maintain warranty by simply unplugging. It's $250 so really an AP is the way to go anyway, but at least this thing really works, gives you like 20hp/30tq but that's it.

Has anyone tried running both to see if the effect stacks? My intuition says one would take precedence over the other if running both an AP and Delta module.

 

[danbfree]

E30 refers to a mixing of premium 91/93 gasoline with E85 to make a 30% ethanol blend.



Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

And if your live where there is e85 around, you WILL end up using it, or you simply don't care about performance, lol, it makes THAT much of a difference. OP shouldn't knock what he has no idea about, doesn't even require any pre mixing, you literally just put 3 gallons of e85 per full tank and it actually makes the car feel quick and fun... Now if your don't have e85 around, that's another story!

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

E30 refers to a mixing of premium 91/93 gasoline with E85 to make a 30% ethanol blend.



Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

I see ty. Yea i won't be doing that. In fact i just looked it up and there isn't even an E85 station in my town lol. There is one in the next town about 10 miles away but im also a fill up anywhere between 1/3 and 2/3 tank so it's just not for me.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

I'll just put this out there as devil's advocate... An intercooler upgrade is definitely one of the more important upgrades for sure, but it's not the end of the world by any means if you just want a pull here or there like most people actually drive. Instead, it's been given this mythical status as absolutely 100% required when I have an e30 tune and make just as much power as anyone on a stock time with a stick intercooler, I just can't expect to go track racing in 100 degree heat, but I drag raced occasionally for fun with barely 5 minutes between runs and it's no prob on ethanol.

Only device other than an AP that is worth anything is a FlowMaster Delta boost module. Our biggest vendor Ron at Whoosh wouldn't sell it if it was junk. Gives you up to 4 psi added boost without flashing anything so 100% guaranteed to maintain warranty by simply unplugging. It's $250 so really an AP is the way to go anyway, but at least this thing really works, gives you like 20hp/30tq but that's it.

I appreciate this perspective. As you elude to im not a track day guy, i very rarely spend hours on the road at a time. The town i live in is only about 14k people and the next town is only a 10 minute drive away. I just want more power to play around with without cutting into my wife's vacation funds lol.

A pull here or there where im not likely to get ticketed, keeping up with or pulling the billions of douchebags with stock Stangs, Challengers and Chargers. My 3yo is with me he loves 1st and 2nd gear lol, safely of course. Summer is closing in so heat will be fading in the Midwest where i live but next summer it will be back so i will still be grabbing an IC but it's not as hot as it was a month ago here.

Gonna look up that flowmaster too, if the race chip isn't impressive i might look into that. Now honestly if i found an AP within my return period and it was around $300, i will grab it for sure. Im just not holding my breath and if the race chip works and i keep it, well im good that way too.