Major brake fade experienced on a "spirited" mountain drive...

[rpt50]

My 17 FIST serves mainly as a commuter car, but today I took the Suches Loop in north Ga. I guess I was about 20 miles in and I noticed that the pedal was getting really mushy, so I pulled over to let it cool. From reading other threads on related topics, I guess I should have turned off the traction control, but I felt better leaving it on given that there is little or no run off on this route (I am a very experienced motorcycle racer, but I have never raced or tracked a 4 wheel vehicle). Anyway, I had a blast driving this loop, and I would like to do more of this type of driving in the future. Will setting the traction control to sport mode solve the problem, or will I likely need a different pad compound or other modifications?

 

[TyphoonFiST]

My suggestion is start doing some local Auto crossing to sharpen your skills In doing so you increase your skills and become a better driver in a better controlled environment Vs the real world where the margin of error is slim to none.

 

[Ford ST]

You would need to hold the button down and completely turn it off. You don't just want to turn off traction control, you would also want to turn off stability control as long as you're comfortable with it. If your car came with summer tires the pads equipped on it are actually pretty darn decent.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[green_henry]

The stock brakes are quite good but stainless steel brake lines and fresh brake fluid are a wise upgrade if you're going to push the car. I like Red Line RL-600; it's a bargain.

 

[D1JL]

I agree.
It easer on the paint to run over a cone rather then falling off a cliff.

 

[maestromaestro]

In my experience, the OEM pads are not suitable for sustained "spirited" driving. For that matter, the DOT fluid is equally marginal. I don't think that having the ESC off would solve the issue - torque vectoring cannot be turned off, btw.

So - my suggestion is to switch to a different pad if you are planning on doing this frequently.

 

[D1JL]

In my experience, the OEM pads are not suitable for sustained "spirited" driving. For that matter, the DOT fluid is equally marginal. I don't think that having the ESC off would solve the issue - torque vectoring cannot be turned off, btw.

So - my suggestion is to switch to a different pad if you are planning on doing this frequently.

Sorry, with this I must disagree.
I have been the OEM pads and fluid for the last 5 years with no issues at all.

 

[maestromaestro]

Sorry, with this I must disagree.
I have been the OEM pads and fluid for the last 5 years with no issues at all.

Did you see the qualifier - "in my experience"? I live in sunny Houston, and on a track with 16 turns, the OEM pads turned to mush after 3 laps. I switched to XP8 and Castrol SRF and never looked back. This, for some, may be a gold-plated solution, but for me it is worth it to not to worry about not being able to stop the car from 80 mph going into a hairpin.

You can try the "minimal technical solution", but if you're doing canyon runs around Hotlanta, I'd invest in a space diaper and update the will.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[D1JL]

Did you see the qualifier - "in my experience"? I live in sunny Houston, and on a track with 16 turns, the OEM pads turned to mush after 3 laps. I switched to XP8 and Castrol SRF and never looked back. This, for some, may be a gold-plated solution, but for me it is worth it to not to worry about not being able to stop the car from 80 mph going into a hairpin.

You can try the "minimal technical solution", but if you're doing canyon runs around Hotlanta, I'd invest in a space diaper and update the will.

Your mileage may vary.

And I live in Southern California where temps get over 100°.
I have driven at Willow Springs Raceway in our local desert with no issues.
I have been driving for over 60 years and may have been part of the group that invented sperited canyon driving. LOL
Yes you can enhance your brakes but ultamately it is how you use them.

 

[koozy]

And I live in Southern California where temps get over 100°.
I have driven at Willow Springs Raceway in our local desert with no issues.
I have been driving for over 60 years and may have been part of the group that invented sperited canyon driving. LOL
Yes you can enhance your brakes but ultamately it is how you use them.

Says the guy who barely uses his brakes, LOL

 

[D1JL]

Says the guy who barely uses his brakes, LOL

LOL, maybe that is why mine don't get too hot.

 

[maestromaestro]

And I live in Southern California where temps get over 100°.
I have driven at Willow Springs Raceway in our local desert with no issues.
I have been driving for over 60 years and may have been part of the group that invented sperited canyon driving. LOL
Yes you can enhance your brakes but ultamately it is how you use them.

So, IN YOUR experience, everything is peachy. In mine, it is not. Maybe I just brake harder? The OP complained about the brakes seemingly overheating - something I can relate to. Are you telling him that it's the way he drives, and he has to change, not the pads/rotors/liquid?

 

[green_henry]

Did you see the qualifier - "in my experience"? I live in sunny Houston, and on a track with 16 turns, the OEM pads turned to mush after 3 laps. I switched to XP8 and Castrol SRF and never looked back. This, for some, may be a gold-plated solution, but for me it is worth it to not to worry about not being able to stop the car from 80 mph going into a hairpin.

You can try the "minimal technical solution", but if you're doing canyon runs around Hotlanta, I'd invest in a space diaper and update the will.

Your mileage may vary.

I'm currently running 1521s but am considering something that will sustain higher temps. Are you using the XP8s on a daily basis? How do they compare to the OEMs (or 1521s if you're familiar with them) from a dust standpoint?

 

[D1JL]

So, IN YOUR experience, everything is peachy. In mine, it is not. Maybe I just brake harder? The OP complained about the brakes seemingly overheating - something I can relate to. Are you telling him that it's the way he drives, and he has to change, not the pads/rotors/liquid?

NOT at all.
I believe that it is a combination of the two.
I am sure that there have been times that I have braked just as hard as you.
I am just saying that I have had no issues with the OEM pads and fluid.
Where you seem to insist that changing those will correct all of his problems.
In my opinion I don't believe that to be true.
However, you too are entitled to your opinion.

 

[koozy]

LOL, maybe that is why mine don't get too hot.

Let's be fair, you also have larger rotors front and rear which provide better heat dissipation over stock. You swapped to larger front rotors early on in your ownership. Yes, you have OE pads, but larger rotors.

 

[maestromaestro]

NOT at all.
I believe that it is a combination of the two.
I am sure that there have been times that I have braked just as hard as you.
I am just saying that I have had no issues with the OEM pads and fluid.
Where you seem to insist that changing those will correct all of his problems.
In my opinion I don't believe that to be true.
However, you too are entitled to your opinion.

So - we made a full circle. I said that my advice is to upgrade the hardware to address the apparent overheating of the OEM brakes, and you disagreed because YOU haven't experienced any problems with the brakes, and suggested that he learn to drive. Let's see what happens

 

[D1JL]

So - we made a full circle. I said that my advice is to upgrade the hardware to address the apparent overheating of the OEM brakes, and you disagreed because YOU haven't experienced any problems with the brakes, and suggested that he learn to drive. Let's see what happens

Let's be clear.
You first statement was

In my experience, the OEM pads are not suitable for sustained "spirited" driving. For that matter, the DOT fluid is equally marginal. I don't think that having the ESC off would solve the issue - torque vectoring cannot be turned off, btw.
So - my suggestion is to switch to a different pad if you are planning on doing this frequently.

My response was that I do not believe the OEM pads and fluid are the issue as you have stated and that I have never had issues with the OEM pads and fluid for about five years.

Yes, other things can help and yes I did change my rotors about three years ago but that was done long after any track days.
I have not done any track days after the rotors were changed. (can't afford it) LOL.

 

[maestromaestro]

I'm currently running 1521s but am considering something that will sustain higher temps. Are you using the XP8s on a daily basis? How do they compare to the OEMs (or 1521s if you're familiar with them) from a dust standpoint?

I do use XP8s for the street and the track (fronts only). I find them excellent for both duties. I run Dynapro calipers, so changing pads for the weekend on the track would require taking the calipers off. My wheels are black, so aesthetics vis-a-vis the dust may be different if I had white ones. I think that the pads are dustier than the OEMs, and - unless you apply some "goop" to the backs, they do squeal. A lot.

But, seeing how I am a fan of progress, I find that in combination with the Spec 37 rotors and the Castrol SRF fluid, it solves the overheating issue.

Others will tell you that none of this is necessary. I guess I don't have enough experience - perhaps in another 30 years, I'll come around... Lulz.

 

[rpt50]

"My suggestion is start doing some local Auto crossing to sharpen your skills In doing so you increase your skills and become a better driver in a better controlled environment Vs the real world where the margin of error is slim to none."

This has actually been the plan since I bought the car almost two years ago, but to date I have been unwilling to give up weekend motorcycle riding/racing days for autocross. The wife would certainly be happier if I traded some bike days for car days! Being that I am a car novice it would make sense to get some proper driving instruction before I start swapping major parts. I guess I should also read the manual more closely to understand what the stability control does and does not do. I will also read up more on pads. I know that makes a huge difference on bikes (I run a carbon compound for some conditions), and I have never liked the initial "grabbiness" of the stock pads.

 

[PunkST]

Does your car have the factory summer or all season pads? usually indicated by the tire when purchased new. Ford still messed up a few cars and they have all season pads and summer tires so take this with a grain of salt. The factory summer pads are good. Tcs will over work them eventually. But not near as fast as the all season pads.