New tial 38mm MV-S external wastegate knock offs

[Sourskittle]

Its sure to come up on other forums sooner or later, but recently some new TiAL 38mm V-band flange wastegates started showing up for sale. They are around $100-$115 shipped. If your counting, that's $165 cheaper than the cheapest real TiAL MV-S I can find ( normally they are $265 shipped ).

I've decided to try one. Takes about 10 days to get it from China.

Shipped from Shanghi, lol.

It has "TiAL" cast right into the body.

TiAL right on the cap.

This is a real TiAL piston seat in the body.

I will say the flange quality vs the real TiAL is about 95% as good, but I can tell a difference.

It comes with 2 springs pre-installed which are rated at 24psi together. I removed one.

Diaphragm body looked good.

I can't tell you if this Diaphragm is any worse, better or equal to a real TiAL. I am almost positive that a real TiAL Diaphragm will directly install without issue, and they go for about $55 I think.

Ok. Some may find this part a deal breaker... I'm indifferent because honestly, if this wastegate was water cooled, I wouldn't use it myself. That being said, the biggest difference seems to be that THIS MV-S does not have the option to be water cooled like the REAL MV-S does. That doesn't bother me because of this... From TiAL themselves.

It came with all the same size V-band clamps and flanges like the real MVS.

I'm not selling these, promoting these, or anything else. Feel free to point out any flaws or issues. But this valve has never been offered before, until just the last month or so.

I will definitely be testing one as will a customer of mine. Worst case, if it works completely poorly, a real MV-S will bolt right to the flanges as the are identical.

Feel free to discuss

 

[Young L]

maybe its my computer but the pictures don't seem to load?? Anyway, sometimes the cheap stuff ends up working out most of the time it doesn't, gotta pay to play as they say

 

[Sourskittle]

maybe its my computer but the pictures don't seem to load?? Anyway, sometimes the cheap stuff ends up working out most of the time it doesn't, gotta pay to play as they say

I was gonna try one of the $60 externals on my own personal external gated manifold, but I've stayed so busy with everyone elses stuff, I haven't had hardly anytime to look at my own stuff. Luckly, they came out with this one while I was preoccupied. I'm going to run one and I'm not scared at all of it, and a customer is going to run one. The $60 scared me because the internals of a tial would not fit it, and I wasn't sure if the V-bands inter-changed either. Like I said, worse case, it stops working correctly and I'm forced to either by tial internals or an actual tial valve. But to find out for everyone, its worth a shot

 

[Sourskittle]

Given the extreme relevance,
I'm copy pasting info from my cyborg thread to this one...

Disclaimer...
I do not sale these wastegates for any kind of profit. Both are just as easy to work with as the other. The tial MVS does offer one thing, and that's much faster shipping time. But other wise, I'm un-bias. The tial has some advantages and I'll go over them in a bit. But for now... Water bucket test.

I started with a brand new tial wastegate purchased by me for a customer from an authorized tial retailer.
I did not modify the tial wastegate in any way at all. It had been opened up to inspect the diaphragm and spring cup. This is how it tested....
https://vimeo.com/151185187
This test shows the tial fittings are sealed tight WITHOUT any sealant on the plugs at all. The diaphragm its self also seals better.... But it has a flaw, and honestly:... Its an issue. Not that the wastegate won't work, its just... It should be sealed. The tial valve leaks at the valve seal/guide. The effect this will have is.... The 20-40-60psi that our exhaust manifold/turbine housing can see, can/will leak into the pressure camber, which will push the spring up and bleed off exhaust pressure before its supposed to. The one catch about this maybe that with heat, the valve may swell and seal its self at a higher temp, but it should not leak at any temp in my opinion.

https://vimeo.com/151185878
This is the same test, same pressure. This is a knock-off valve fresh out of the box. The one thing I did do, was put sealant on the port plugs because they have already shown to leak, obvious in the video, I didn't put enough sealant on them or let the sealant sit long enough, lol. But the big thing, it doesn't leak anywhere else, just the fittings. The valve seal/guide does not leak at all. This is the 2nd knock-off I've tested like this. The diaphragm does bleed a little air out of the top that the tial does not.

I may as well go over some differences since I have a minute...

Real tial

Knock off tial

Real MVS tial ( notice the gap between the chamber and the base plate)

Knock off valve ( notice the chamber is flat on the base plate )

Tial V-band clamps. These easily a higher quality clamp.

The knock off clamps are def not as good. Sorry.

Tial nipple fittings with silver crush washers. Work great.

Knock-off nipples with copper washers. Recommend sealant on threads and maybe a little on the washers, tial also better, but these work with some love.

Valves next to each others. Ummm... Tial comes cleaner, lol.

Tial spring cup and diaphragm. If you can tell, its high quality. 4 set screws with thread locker.

Knock off cup and diaphragm. Not the worst, but it leaks a tiny bit and doesn't seem as high quality. 3 set screws without thread locker.

Double roll pins on tial clamps

Single roll pins on knock-off

Maybe one looks better quality to you???

This is meant to inform, not pick one over the other. I think either valve will do the job with a correct pre-load spring setup. We are still testing and if any new and proven results happen, then I'll do my best to inform. Hope this info can help

 

[blurred]

Just throw it in the trash. Whether it "works" or not, the fact that it says TiAL means it is a fake and should never be bought. It is produced to fool uninformed buyers and all they do is cause them financial harm or in some cases blown motors. I am present for hundreds of dyno tuning sessions per year and see so many varied builds and can tell you in no uncertain terms, 99% of the "fake" parts fail at some early point of use, usually on the dyno or just after. Blow off valves and Wastegates are the worst culprits. So then they buy a real one and have to re-tune. So instead of saving $100, they are forced to spend an extra $1000.

Don't feed the fake industry.

 

[Sourskittle]

Just throw it in the trash. Whether it "works" or not, the fact that it says TiAL means it is a fake and should never be bought. It is produced to fool uninformed buyers and all they do is cause them financial harm or in some cases blown motors. I am present for hundreds of dyno tuning sessions per year and see so many varied builds and can tell you in no uncertain terms, 99% of the "fake" parts fail at some early point of use, usually on the dyno or just after. Blow off valves and Wastegates are the worst culprits. So then they buy a real one and have to re-tune. So instead of saving $100, they are forced to spend an extra $1000.

Don't feed the fake industry.

That's an opinion. And I'm not arguing for or against it. I'm simply providing info for people to make their own choice. Someone can send me a $500 synapse valve or $100 ebay valve, its all the same to my tig welder.

 

[twolf]

Just throw it in the trash. Whether it "works" or not, the fact that it says TiAL means it is a fake and should never be bought. It is produced to fool uninformed buyers and all they do is cause them financial harm or in some cases blown motors. I am present for hundreds of dyno tuning sessions per year and see so many varied builds and can tell you in no uncertain terms, 99% of the "fake" parts fail at some early point of use, usually on the dyno or just after. Blow off valves and Wastegates are the worst culprits. So then they buy a real one and have to re-tune. So instead of saving $100, they are forced to spend an extra $1000.

Don't feed the fake industry.

what a strange mentality.

the people who buy a $265 wastegate for $100 and are shocked that it's fake deserve to be taken advantage of, in my opinion.

for the rest of us that aren't complete idiots--we can choose to take a chance if we so desire. some of the knock off parts are good and fine, and are legitimate options to save money. that's what skittle is trying to figure out in this thread...

 

[Sourskittle]

Again, not telling any one to buy over the other, but my personal choice is going to be to use the knock-off, but add a $55-$56 tial diaphragm in it. If that doesn't work out, then I'll be sure to inform everyone as soon as it happens.

 

[Hijinx]

If you have 14-15psi on the external it SHOULD be open like that, right? Depending on the springs.

 

[Sourskittle]

The valve should be open ( depending on the springs you have in it ). But of course, the leak around the valve seal is the issue, not that its open. Both valves had opened in the videos.

 

[Sourskittle]

Again, you can not buy these wastegates from me, I do not sell them, nor can I buy them for you.
These test are for the general knowledge of the forum ( and maybe other forums to reference ) and for people to know what is what...

This is a knock-off gate with both springs installed. They are rated from china as 24psi springs.

With the back pressure numbers we can see inside the manifold ( 40++psi) its extermely likely that this 20-24psi spring set will open much sooner on our turbos. Meaning... Its prob going to act like a 14-18psi spring because the exhaust is pushing on the actual wastegate valve so hard. Sitting on the bench, it has zero psi pushing on it.

https://vimeo.com/151456778