Rear camber and toe adjustment, the hard way but more accurate and no cost, sort of....

[RAAMaudio]

I was going to have the knuckles machined to change the camber and toe settings but ended up going a different route as the stock tolerances are just to wide for my way of setting up a car for optimal handling though in reality it would of been great with machined parts I am a bit anal but have made some incredibly well handing cars and this one I want to be the best ST I can make it be.

The axle was leveled and moved to the position it will be at when the car is on the ground.

Stock camber with knuckles swapped side to side on the car to allow the parking brake cables to reach the Wilwood 4 piston with parking brake calipers I am installing. I found I could reroute the cables and keep the knuckles on the stock sides but the passenger side was going to be a bit more difficult to make it work and I already had the same amount of work to do either way so saving some time by swapping them. Anybody else can do it either way they choose.

I forgot to take pictures of the stock toe setting but it was -1/4", huge negative toe, not good for tire wear, fuel mileage or the way I want the car to handle.

Stock camber at the mounting base for the knuckles, at least on the drivers side, the knuckle are factory machined to set the camber and toe to the Ford Spec which has a fairly wide tolerance so I will see what the other side shows when I do it next.

Sorry the pic is hard to see, it was a very bright day, string ran along pinch weld under car, very very carefully done to ensure as accurate as possible. This was used to set the rear toe to zero.

Toe is set by measuring the difference between the leading and trailing edge of the rotor and making them the same. I had the front larger BBK rotor installed so I had more distance between the measurement points allowing more accurate setting of the toe.

I had already cut the mounting plate from the axle, 99% or so, leaving just the rear lower corner attached, shimming and wire to help secure and stabilize the settings along the way. Once set to zero I tack welded the front lower corner so the rear area I had not cut and the tack weld held the toe where I wanted it.

Then I set the camber to -2.0 degrees, this is a very accurate camber/castor gauge I have used for race car and street/race setups for a few years now.

I cranked up the welder to get some really solid tack welds on all four corners of the mounting surface to axle beam. I will need to speed up the wire feed just a bit and will weld in 1" sections to help avoid warping the surface of the mount. I will also bolt a thick plate to it to absorb heat and help prevent warping as well.

The end result was being exactly at -2.0 camber and 0.0 toe on the drivers side and when measure with the stock setup on the passenger side the toe is now at - 1/8" total so it came out perfectly as planned.

I will leave as tack welded until both sides are done and the car is on the ground, then will I will recheck the alighment to ensure the toe is correct front to rear to the car tracks straight, this is a very important step. I will use my castor/camber gauge and toe plates as well as check bump steer, etc....on the front and really dial in the setup the way I want the right height to be, etc....

Then I will use my string gauge(DIY) setup to ensure the rear is exactly lined up with the front, once I am sure it is I will then fully weld the rear mounting plates to the axle, and check it all again.

I will be using my corner scales during this procedure as well.

From that point road testing and finally at the track will allow me to fine tune the ride height, camber, front toe, shock settings, etc.....this may sound like a lot of effort for little gain but if you ever get a chance to drive a very precisely dialed in car at speed you would immediately understand why I things like this.

Most of this work is a one time deal, once I know what I want then I just have to make a few tweaks here and there for different tracks, street settings, everything logged for quick reference, very easy to check, set, etc......

I am not the fastest driver, many are far better, I setup my cars better than most anybody and then I do quite well and have passed a great number of cars that on paper, money spent, mods, done, supposedly better chassis...that is the reward for the effort I put in.

I will also allow a few select hot shoes to see what the car can really do as well, I do not mind being beaten by a better driver and or making changes they recommend.

Most of my cars end up running in classes that nobody would build one for, I do what I want and run what I have to, it is great fun finishing 2nd or third, on occasion 1st, against the perfect car for the class in a car most would be at the back of the pack in, far more so than building the absolute best platform, anybody can do that, I like it more challenging and this is one bad arse FWD so I expect to rock a few cocky folks world with it

I will add to this as I finish up the job, hopefully today, I had to quit earlier than planned as many tough angles that were giving my old back injury fits.

 

[iso100]

How did you determine that those alignment settings are what you need? Just curious.

 

[razorlab]

Can I ask why you are aiming for -2 camber in the rear? What are you target front camber settings?

 

[RAAMaudio]

I plan to run -2-5 but may go as much as -3.0.

Picking the rear settings was based on two other fast FWD cars I have built, one solid axle, Toyota Matrix and the other a Scion tC with IRS.

I wish it was adjustable as it might not be the absolute best setting but I had to chose by my prior successes with -2.0 and zero toe.

If for some reason the car does not behave well I may have to redo it but I could then just have the knuckles shaved a bit instead as now I have a very accurately setup axle where stock tolerances are not usually perfect.



I would of dialed in some toe out in the rear, a tiny bit, I will do that up front most likely instead which is normally better.

 

[razorlab]

I plan to run -2-5 but may go as much as -3.0.

You don't find that the car under steers more with that much rear negative camber?

 

[RAAMaudio]

I want it to under steer a bit at high speeds and over steer at slower speeds, that it the overall plan as safer and faster.

I have SA shocks, stiff rear springs, tire pressures, and a 5 way adjustable sway bar I can use if needed to tune the rear with as needed.

UP front I drilled new shock tower holes to get most of the camber I wanted as my 9" wide wheels does not allow for much range at the strut mounts.
I have SA shocks, adjustable camber, caster, toe, stock but upgraded bushing sway with monoball links, tire pressure, etc.....to work with.

If I end up wanting less rear camber I can have knuckles machined to exacting specs, maybe a couple of sets as they are cheap, but I still end up with a far more accurately aligned mounting base for them with what I am doing, part of why I made the choice was seeing some of the alignment settings posted, including yours, thanks

When more choices are available in DA shocks I might go that route as well if needed.

 

[razorlab]

Makes sense!

Yea seeing my rear toe specs and not having the ability to change it hurt me a little inside.

I can't wait to see your car in action!

 

[RAAMaudio]

It will be in your area, maybe this fall, we have a grandson in Sactown and eventually moving to Carson City NV.

Once we get to know each other and I see your driving skill, respect, etc....I just might let you drive it and I do not let many drive my toys after so much work to build them

 

[razorlab]

It will be in your area, maybe this fall, we have a grandson in Sactown and eventually moving to Carson City NV.

Once we get to know each other and I see your driving skill, respect, etc....I just might let you drive it and I do not let many drive my toys after so much work to build them

Nice, you need to check out Reno Fernley raceway if it ever opens again!

Me in the middle of a Evo sandwich at Reno Fernley:

 

[RAAMaudio]

I did not know it closed, I was afraid it might, it is one of the reasons we like Carson City so much but there are other tracks in CA though having that fun track nice and close would of been incredible.




It will be in your area, maybe this fall, we have a grandson in Sactown and eventually moving to Carson City NV.

Once we get to know each other and I see your driving skill, respect, etc....I just might let you drive it and I do not let many drive my toys after so much work to build them

 

[RAAMaudio]

I did not know it closed, I was afraid it might, it is one of the reasons we like Carson City so much but there are other tracks in CA though having that fun track nice and close would of been incredible.

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I drove the earlier STI and Evo and ended up at one point with a very mofidied and fast Forester XT but I found I prefer RWD and even AWD more for some reason and faster in FWD that the others, no idea why.......just am.

I would certainly build an Evo over an STI or WRX, Subbies just cost to much to make power and last.




It will be in your area, maybe this fall, we have a grandson in Sactown and eventually moving to Carson City NV.

Once we get to know each other and I see your driving skill, respect, etc....I just might let you drive it and I do not let many drive my toys after so much work to build them

 

[RAAMaudio]

As part of my testing I jacked up the axle to check the camber when fully compressed and it dropped to -1.6, I expected some change.

But, I put an equal load on both ends, I would imagine with the flex designed in if I jacked one side, which would relate to the loaded outside tire, the camber will not change or go even further negative.

I have searched a great deal and found nothing about any pro race teams setups so only have my past experiences to go on but I found I have a bit of fender to tire clearance( rolled and pulled as far as it will go) and could easily dial back the camber to -1.5 or so. I wish I could find some solid specs to go with since not adjustable.

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Overall a pretty good car day, I posted on the forum for that

 

[RAAMaudio]

I think I might change the rear camber to -1.5, it would be really easy and the pulling and rolling I have done has plenty of room to spare, it does look a bit stanced in the back now. That is something I would never do on purpose, my alignments are for performance only.

 

[nmh5001]

Did you have any issues with your ABS sensor? Been looking at OTS shims to correct my uneven toe and add some camber, but users have reported issues with the sensor going bonkers due to the added spacing.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Since I moved the entire flange the sensor moved with it so no change in how it aligns with the hub, no issues at all.

With shims you may have to modify the mounting on the sensor to keep it correctly aligned.

I looked at OTS shims and found nothing I felt comfortable enough to try, please post up what you are considering.

 

[nmh5001]

Was looking at the EZ Shims. Worked great on my buddy's Golf. Would rather something steel instead of some plastic, but the ease of use was a selling point. Saw a Mazda 2 owner tried them out only to have the ABS go nuts since there was no adjustment for the sensor. I think it's strange Ford, Moog, or Eibach doesn't offer any solution to adjust the rear end of the best selling B car platform.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have looked into helping getting metal shims made but they are difficult to machine and at least 10 sets had to be ordered.

Then there is the issue of the accuracy of each separate car alignment and having one set of shims as they effect camber and toe at the same time.

Then there is the issues of the bolts not being at the proper angle which was brought to my attention before I proceeded with shims. Going through the shim to the knuckle would require a separate shim on the inside of the flange to correct and have to drill out the bolt holes to allow for the angle of the bolts going through the flange at an angle.

Then, the ABS sensor.....perhaps use a die grinder and remove, carefully, some material from the back of the flange so the sensor can stick out a bit more and hopefully work properly, if not then have to find a way to angle it to sit in the right orientation to the hub but it would probably be OK just being far enough out.

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I looked into having the knuckles machined to change the camber and toe, this still leaves the other issues above and if ever need to change a knuckle having to have it machined as well.

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Plastic shims seem a pretty weak way to do this unless of very high grade which the ones offered probably are. However they are designed to fix bent axles on stock cars, not sure how they will hold up on a much more highly stressed car like the ST, especially with widened wheels, stickier tires, tracked, etc.....

And they do not address the added stress on the bolt heads no longer flush at the back of the flanges or ABS sensor location.

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This is why I cut and moved the flanges to where I wanted them, it was a great deal of effort to get it right but I figured out an easier method but only repeatable having the actual car on hand and doing it for that specific one and it would still require considerable time and physical effort.

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Another method would be to build a jig and just put any axle in it, cut and reweld to the new specs, perhaps having 2-3 options....something leaving the builder perhaps open to liability issues they would not be comfortable accepting, or in my case, I am retired and not looking to do this kind of work. And, not every factory axle and/or mouning point on the chassis will be exact to begin with, perhaps close enough, not sure.

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OR, buy the none ST axle and probably end up needing a sway bar, this is what Team O'Neal is doing, at least the axle but perhaps they wanted a softer one as well as the camber and toe change(I did do not recall the specs exactly but seems to be quite good)

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OR, just keep it stock, add firmer but more linear bushings, tweak the rest of the car to make it as good as you can towards achieving your particular goals.

I hope this covers it all, I think I have addressed all the options.

Rick

 

[nmh5001]

Lol. Yeah. Might just ask the shop to do the ol unbolt and rebolt of the rear axle. Left rear toe is at 0.20, right at 0.07. Of course that's well within Ford's +-0.50 tolerance, but I swear the car prefers left turns to right ones. Drives me nuts. Or I'm just being a carpochondriac.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Check this video out, probably just loosened the three bolts per side one the axle mounts at the chassis and drive it back and forth tapering down the stopping and speed...seems like it might work


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGK91vNrUU4


I forgot to mention to look into having the axle beam bent to change the toe as well as camber, I believe this is what some of the "stanced" Hondas have done.

 

[nmh5001]

Bend it eh? Where's my hammer?