Suspension Questions

[DoomsdayMelody]

Hi all, I’m considering lowering the car, and since I’m a cheap ass college student I’m looking exclusively at springs. I have a few questions though:

Will lowering springs hurt the vehicle’s ability to handle? I know I’m never really going to see the car at it’s limits, or at least if I do it will be rarely, but I can’t imagine that all of Ford’s engineering can be replicated by an aftermarket spring company. The only tangible benefit that I can actually see, in terms of handling and stability, would be the lowering of the center of gravity. Aside from that I see a few drawbacks, namely reducing the suspension travel, which could exacerbate the already stiff ride. I know I can combat that with smaller wheels and appropriately upsized tires, but if I’m losing suspension compliance AND peak grip/cornering stability it wouldn’t be worth it to me just to help the aesthetics of the car. I know there are other things to consider like scraping the bumper etc but that is my biggest concern. Do aftermarket springs interfere with the factories suspensions ability to be as magical as it is?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dpro]

Actually lowering springs on our cars quite often helps the ride as our cars are over damped. Putting a stiffer spring on actually evens out the difference as the stock springs are quite soft. Most people with lowering springs report the ride stiffer but better as in less bouncy and more firm. Stock our cars are quite bouncy which is what happens when you over damp a suspension.
They will not interfere with the handling and will in fact improve it. Because less bounce means more even traction and compliance over different surfaces.
If you want better suspension response with handling and not dropping the car to low go with Swift or Whiteline. HR and Eibach drop the car lower.
Both Swift and Whiteline make excellent springs anyways. Whiteline being the most affordable and Swift being some of the most expensive.

Do not think that Ford’s suspension tuning cannot be improved as its not perfect to begin with its good but not perfect. There is plenty of room for improvement which is why some of us go Coilovers which is going even farther than just springs.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Actually lowering springs on our cars quite often helps the ride as our cars are over damped. Putting a stiffer spring on actually evens out the difference as the stock springs are quite soft. Most people with lowering springs report the ride stiffer but better as in less bouncy and more firm. Stock our cars are quite bouncy which is what happens when you over damp a suspension.
They will not interfere with the handling and will in fact improve it. Because less bounce means more even traction and compliance over different surfaces.
If you want better suspension response with handling and not dropping the car to low go with Swift or Whiteline. HR and Eibach drop the car lower.
Both Swift and Whiteline make excellent springs anyways. Whiteline being the most affordable and Swift being some of the most expensive.

Do not think that Ford’s suspension tuning cannot be improved as its not perfect to begin with its good but not perfect. There is plenty of room for improvement which is why some of us go Coilovers which is going even farther than just springs.

I was under the impression that coil overs would be an improvement because it would be an entire replacement for the shock/spring and would be designed with that in mind, although I’m nowhere near ready to drop $1000+ on suspension seeing as I’m still trying to find time to even get involved in a local autox meet.

Interesting points that you’ve brought up about it being over-damped... I’d always assumed that a bouncy ride would be the result of under-damping the system, although I’m no suspension guru by any stretch of the imagination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dpro]

I was under the impression that coil overs would be an improvement because it would be an entire replacement for the shock/spring and would be designed with that in mind, although I’m nowhere near ready to drop $1000+ on suspension seeing as I’m still trying to find time to even get involved in a local autox meet.

Interesting points that you’ve brought up about it being over-damped... I’d always assumed that a bouncy ride would be the result of under-damping the system, although I’m no suspension guru by any stretch of the imagination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Coilovers can be an improvement. I was addressing your question about springs. If the car was underdamped it would have soft shocks and stiff springs. Which would result in the springs killing the shock absorber. This happens in some cars with lowering springs exactly because the lowering springs being much stiffer they hammer the shocks.
This is not an issue with our cars as our shocks are extremely stiff for stock shocks. Apparently Ford attempted to balance it with soft springs but went to soft.

Its kinda of balancing act. You want your shock valving to match your spring rate. The theory behind running coilovers is exactly that. Problem being a lot of coilover companies in Taiwan and China just slap some springs on dampers and call it a day. The more reputable actually do match them but those are the more expensive ones.

If you are trying to do local autocross and there are classes you should look into what the classes permit before doing anything. I know STH does not allow lowering springs.

Some switch out to degassed revalved koni yellows as a way to drop the car about an inch and get better handling. A Koni is actually valved better than our stock shocks and as a result will ride better even with stock springs.

 

[MRX330]

The stock suspension on the FiST and the FoRS were set up for driving in Utopia otherwise known as the track. Why? Who cares. We drive on roads. All I can tell you is I put on the Mountune ClubSport setup which is Bilstein B8’s and Mountune springs. No bouncing with a firm but compliant ride with no need for monster truck sidewalls. No more explosions going over expansion joints etc. I know you’re just looking for springs but I wanted to give you some edification on what a proper setup offers.

 

[Dpro]

The stock suspension on the FiST and the FoRS were set up for driving in Utopia otherwise known as the track. Why? Who cares. We drive on roads. All I can tell you is I put on the Mountune ClubSport setup which is Bilstein B8’s and Mountune springs. No bouncing with a firm but compliant ride with no need for monster truck sidewalls. No more explosions going over expansion joints etc. I know you’re just looking for springs but I wanted to give you some edification on what a proper setup offers.

Two things here one. A smooth road can hide the fact that a suspension is over damped it does not change the fact that it is and is not properly setup. Japanese coilover companies got away with that for years due to smooth Japanese roads. From a proper suspension analysis though its not right or ideal.
Two, the Clubsport setup is a decent setup but expensive at that point price wise. One could start looking at some decent coilover setups that would come with adjustable dampers, monoball top hats and springs matched to the shocks.
One could even put their own spring and Bilstein Combo together cheaper than the Mountune Clubsport setup and Mountune uses Eibach springs which personally with experience I am not a huge fan of. Both Swift and Whiteline are superior springs in my opinion and experience.

Moutune does sell some good stuff including your bottom end but not everything they sell is worth what they ask.
P.S. This is coming from someone who has several Mountune parts on his car as well.

 

[MRX330]

Mountune springs I believe are tuned to Mountune’s specs. I don’t care about brand names. I just care if they work. $269. B8’s were shipped from the UK for 600 something. If they were available again here I’m sure they would be less. It’s a kit that works and no muss no fuss. I take my car all over through different climates, salt etc. and I need durability, dependability and performance. I don’t see a coilover setup that does all that at that price.

 

[Dpro]

Mountune springs I believe are tuned to Mountune’s specs. I don’t care about brand names. I just care if they work. $269. B8’s were shipped from the UK for 600 something. If they were available again here I’m sure they would be less. It’s a kit that works and no muss no fuss. I take my car all over through different climates, salt etc. and I need durability, dependability and performance. I don’t see a coilover setup that does all that at that price.

It does not matter they are manufactured by Eibach. Its not the spring rates that are the problem with Eibachs its the spring quality and actual weight of the spring. They sag a lot over time do not survive spring dyno”s well. They are also very heavy. It may not matter to you and you may not know how much better your suspension could be. Just because it works well enough for you. Thats great but it does not change the facts I cited.

I also did not say a coilover setup at that price was worth or available. I did say for a few hundred more you can buy a coilover setup that gives you much more suspension tuning options. Camber plates and damper adjustment. Which if you are serious about cornering can really be advantageous.

 

[MRX330]

I’m not married to the springs. I was commenting on my experience with them along with the Bilsteins and that so far I couldn’t be happier with them. 4 seasons you wish you’d never heard the word coilover

 

[Dpro]

I’m not married to the springs. I was commenting on my experience with them along with the Bilsteins and that so far I couldn’t be happier with them. 4 seasons you wish you never heard the word coilover

Thats cool and appreciated, I am just pointing out they are not the be all end all. Plus the OP lives in the SF bay area where severe weather is not even an issue.

Its great they have weathered severe winters but fact is a good coilover will as well.

 

[MRX330]

Thats cool and appreciated, I am just pointing out they are not the be all end all. Plus the OP lives in the SF bay area where severe weather is not even an issue.

Its great they have weathered severe winters but fact is a good coilover will as well.

But

 

[jeffreylyon]

IMO, coilovers and string/struts have different use cases. If you want to load and go and never adjust, mounting springs on struts and getting on with your life is the way to go. I like to tinker, so adjusting preload and ride height and changing spring rates is fun for me, hence I'm on YCW coilovers. With the exposed threads and hardware, I do believe that coilovers need more maintenance, especially in areas that salt the roads.

All that said, @DoomsdayMelody, if you change spring rates or ride height you'll no longer be in a stock class. Perhaps you should meet up with your local A/C group and decide after talking to some competitors. Moreover, I think that my FiST had more dampening problems than spring problems on the stock bits.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

IMO, coilovers and string/struts have different use cases. If you want to load and go and never adjust, mounting springs on struts and getting on with your life is the way to go. I like to tinker, so adjusting preload and ride height and changing spring rates is fun for me, hence I'm on YCW coilovers. With the exposed threads and hardware, I do believe that coilovers need more maintenance, especially in areas that salt the roads.

All that said, @DoomsdayMelody, if you change spring rates or ride height you'll no longer be in a stock class. Perhaps you should meet up with your local A/C group and decide after talking to some competitors. Moreover, I think that my FiST had more dampening problems than spring problems on the stock bits.

So you’re saying that, for the dollar that replacing a shock with something aftermarket might be a better than just doing springs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mikey456]

Hi all, I’m considering lowering the car, and since I’m a cheap ass college student I’m looking exclusively at springs. I have a few questions though:

Will lowering springs hurt the vehicle’s ability to handle? I know I’m never really going to see the car at it’s limits, or at least if I do it will be rarely, but I can’t imagine that all of Ford’s engineering can be replicated by an aftermarket spring company. The only tangible benefit that I can actually see, in terms of handling and stability, would be the lowering of the center of gravity. Aside from that I see a few drawbacks, namely reducing the suspension travel, which could exacerbate the already stiff ride. I know I can combat that with smaller wheels and appropriately upsized tires, but if I’m losing suspension compliance AND peak grip/cornering stability it wouldn’t be worth it to me just to help the aesthetics of the car. I know there are other things to consider like scraping the bumper etc but that is my biggest concern. Do aftermarket springs interfere with the factories suspensions ability to be as magical as it is?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you are interested in maintaining ride quality over performance I would look at a progressive rate spring. There are different brands out there, but the H&R will lower your car the most, according to what I read.

 

[Mikey456]

I would look for a progressive rate spring in your application. You will have more initial compliance then something like a Swift spring (a linear spring) which I have. The H&R spring will drop your car the lowest. I think Eibach makes progressive springs for Cobb etc. And Mountune is the performance arm of Ford. I think these are quality brands, so check out the comparisons.

 

[MRX330]

Thats cool and appreciated, I am just pointing out they are not the be all end all. Plus the OP lives in the SF bay area where severe weather is not even an issue.

Its great they have weathered severe winters but fact is a good coilover will as well.

They were just put on the car a month ago

 

[MRX330]

Wait a minute you just said earlier your suspension had weathered all kinds of winters but now your saying you just put them on a month ago?

I never said that

 

[jeffreylyon]

So you’re saying that, for the dollar that replacing a shock with something aftermarket might be a better than just doing springs?

If you change springs you're going to be reclassed from Street to Street Touring. You will not be reclassed if you just change struts and shock absorbers.

I went from stock everything to coilovers, so I can't tell you, first hand, how the car feels with just a dampener upgrade, but there are some nice Bilstein and Koni options that will work just find w/ your stock springs and, as I said, the car felt over-damped to me, not over-sprung.

I've hated progressive springs. I A/C and track day my cars and progressive springs feel very odd, to me, when transferring weight.