I've currently got the synthetic blend that the Ford dealership puts in the Fiesta ST by default. I am tracking this weekend, and wanted to know if I should switch to full-synthetic to stave off any potential coking (which I'm told regular oil is more prone to than synthetic.) Should I switch to full synthetic for track, or do you think the synthetic blend will be okay?
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Synthetic Blend + Track
- Thread starter Moonchopper
- Start date
As long as it meets Ford spec for your vehicle I'm sure it will be fine. Alot of Fords factory fill in the performance division is 5w20 syn. blend. Just make sure it meets spec and you will be fine. I can't remember if our turbos are coolant cooled or not either so don't quote me. Most vehicles are liquid cooled turbos due to the short trip driving performed by a majority of consumers. This is why they are coolant cooled and use oil also as heat transfer to help aid in the coming of oil in the turbo itself. If your super worried buy a turbo timer. End of story.
The OP never stated how many miles on the engine. Since the OP stated that the dealer serviced it, we can assume it's already had at least the initial oil change.
I would change the oil and filter AFTER the track day to get all the abused and over-heated oil out of the engine. Then switch to a full synthetic.
I probably change my oil too often. But my philosophy is that I would rather change the oil frequently, than lose engines due to mechanical failure due to oil breakdown.
I would change the oil and filter AFTER the track day to get all the abused and over-heated oil out of the engine. Then switch to a full synthetic.
I probably change my oil too often. But my philosophy is that I would rather change the oil frequently, than lose engines due to mechanical failure due to oil breakdown.
I was searching web recently for highest safe oil temps for tracking, none of the technical/racer sources reported concern with oil temp 260 F or below, most thought 270 or even higher safe for track. My highest recorded oil temp tracking last year in dead of summer heat was 255 F
I thought engine oil should regularly exceed 212 F for a DD just to clear off water vapor. My inferred oil temp via Accessport never gets to 200 F around town or on Interstate at 80 cruise.
So I worry more about oil abuse DD (too many short trips) than on track. Hence change it every 5000 mi regardless of how many track days that includes.
Someone who knows more about oil could change my opinion, I could be wrong.
I thought engine oil should regularly exceed 212 F for a DD just to clear off water vapor. My inferred oil temp via Accessport never gets to 200 F around town or on Interstate at 80 cruise.
So I worry more about oil abuse DD (too many short trips) than on track. Hence change it every 5000 mi regardless of how many track days that includes.
Someone who knows more about oil could change my opinion, I could be wrong.
Here we go again....thinking that you "KNOW" better than the people who designed the product.....here's some reading to think about...
Thick Oil? Thin Oil? Right Oil!
Written by Pat Goss
In preventive maintenance nothing is as hotly debated, universally misunderstood, or improperly used as oil. Here’s a typical oil discussion, “thicker oil is always better” - “no way, thinner is better” - “it’s daylight” - “no it’s dark” - “who cares, oil is oil.” All from two basic groups: the know-it-alls and the know-nothings.*
Know-it-alls may have been messing with oil for years, plus they acquire knowledge from generational rituals of passage. Whoa, reality check! Their oil knowledge is probably more myth than substance. Handling oil does not make anyone an oil expert! On the other hand, know-nothings just go along with the program. “After all, oil is oil so what’s the big deal? All this talk about viscosity makes me crazy.”*
How much do you know about oil? Are you convinced that thinner oils are only recommended for better fuel economy ratings? Do you believe thicker oils are better than thinner oils? Or, oil is just oil? Actually there’s much to learn about today’s engines and the oils that protect them; for instance, thicker is not better and oil is not just oil.*
Old lies die hard. The notion that thicker oil is better never was true but “back in the day” it was usually harmless. Be careful, it isn’t harmless anymore and to understand why, you have to understand the oil-to-engine relationship. First and foremost oil has to lubricate moving parts and to do that it must circulate between those parts. Looking at the inside of an engine it appears that metal touches metal, but it doesn’t. Touching would be deadly.*
The moving parts inside engines are separated by tiny gaps continuously filled with oil. So, rather than riding on, or against one another, engine parts move on a thin film of oil. If the oil film goes away due to inadequate “shear strength” or improper thickness, engine damage occurs in seconds.
Oil thickness (viscosity) is vital to engine protection. Oil viscosity recommendations are based on a number of factors, but one of the most critical is the clearance between moving parts. Before the age of computer-controlled machining tools there was a lot of space or uneven spaces between parts. But new computer-controlled machines create parts that fit like the parts in a fine watch. This is about ten times more precise than machined parts of 20 years ago.
Here’s the rule. Oil must fill the space between moving parts yet be able to circulate freely. With smaller, more precise spaces between parts, thinner oils do a better job of flowing freely through the engine while still filling the spaces. Thick oils can fill bigger gaps. That was desirable years ago when the gaps between parts were bigger, but big gaps are history. Thick oil without big gaps disrupts two flow characteristics, oil pressure and oil-flow volume.
Thick oil is tricky stuff! It can fool you into thinking it is better because it increases oil pressure. Higher oil pressure by itself is a good thing, but when it comes at the expense of oil-flow volume, it’s bad. Thicker oil is harder to push through the spaces between parts. This makes the oil pump work harder, which in turn increases oil pressure, but simultaneously decreases oil volume.
Pressure-volume experiment: remove your garden hose nozzle, open the wall spigot and observe the stream of water. The stream will be big (high volume) but won’t go very far from the hose (low pressure). This is similar to oil in your engine when everything is working properly.
You can’t make water thicker so to get the same effect (as thick oil), it’s necessary to restrict water flow. Place your thumb over the hose opening, which significantly increases water pressure making the stream travel much farther. Although the pressure is greatly increased, the volume is greatly decreased. This is what happens when you use thicker than recommended oil in an engine; pressure goes up, volume goes down.
Too thick oil, wonderful oil pressure, yet parts inside the engine could actually be starved for oil due to lowered volume. Another downer, circulating oil accounts for nearly 50% of engine cooling, so reduced oil-flow reduces cooling causing lubricated parts to operate at higher temperatures. Higher parts temperatures, more wear.
Too thick or too thin oils can both be bad for engines, but damage is neither immediate nor catastrophic; it just reduces overall engine life. Consider that using improper oil could reduce engine life by a conservative ten thousand miles. At a value of fifty cents per driven mile, in a one-hundred-car-fleet, that would be a loss of one million miles for a value loss of five million dollars.
Always use the oil recommended by the engine manufacturer. Believe it or not, you don’t know more about oils than the people who designed and built the engine.
Thick Oil? Thin Oil? Right Oil!
Written by Pat Goss
In preventive maintenance nothing is as hotly debated, universally misunderstood, or improperly used as oil. Here’s a typical oil discussion, “thicker oil is always better” - “no way, thinner is better” - “it’s daylight” - “no it’s dark” - “who cares, oil is oil.” All from two basic groups: the know-it-alls and the know-nothings.*
Know-it-alls may have been messing with oil for years, plus they acquire knowledge from generational rituals of passage. Whoa, reality check! Their oil knowledge is probably more myth than substance. Handling oil does not make anyone an oil expert! On the other hand, know-nothings just go along with the program. “After all, oil is oil so what’s the big deal? All this talk about viscosity makes me crazy.”*
How much do you know about oil? Are you convinced that thinner oils are only recommended for better fuel economy ratings? Do you believe thicker oils are better than thinner oils? Or, oil is just oil? Actually there’s much to learn about today’s engines and the oils that protect them; for instance, thicker is not better and oil is not just oil.*
Old lies die hard. The notion that thicker oil is better never was true but “back in the day” it was usually harmless. Be careful, it isn’t harmless anymore and to understand why, you have to understand the oil-to-engine relationship. First and foremost oil has to lubricate moving parts and to do that it must circulate between those parts. Looking at the inside of an engine it appears that metal touches metal, but it doesn’t. Touching would be deadly.*
The moving parts inside engines are separated by tiny gaps continuously filled with oil. So, rather than riding on, or against one another, engine parts move on a thin film of oil. If the oil film goes away due to inadequate “shear strength” or improper thickness, engine damage occurs in seconds.
Oil thickness (viscosity) is vital to engine protection. Oil viscosity recommendations are based on a number of factors, but one of the most critical is the clearance between moving parts. Before the age of computer-controlled machining tools there was a lot of space or uneven spaces between parts. But new computer-controlled machines create parts that fit like the parts in a fine watch. This is about ten times more precise than machined parts of 20 years ago.
Here’s the rule. Oil must fill the space between moving parts yet be able to circulate freely. With smaller, more precise spaces between parts, thinner oils do a better job of flowing freely through the engine while still filling the spaces. Thick oils can fill bigger gaps. That was desirable years ago when the gaps between parts were bigger, but big gaps are history. Thick oil without big gaps disrupts two flow characteristics, oil pressure and oil-flow volume.
Thick oil is tricky stuff! It can fool you into thinking it is better because it increases oil pressure. Higher oil pressure by itself is a good thing, but when it comes at the expense of oil-flow volume, it’s bad. Thicker oil is harder to push through the spaces between parts. This makes the oil pump work harder, which in turn increases oil pressure, but simultaneously decreases oil volume.
Pressure-volume experiment: remove your garden hose nozzle, open the wall spigot and observe the stream of water. The stream will be big (high volume) but won’t go very far from the hose (low pressure). This is similar to oil in your engine when everything is working properly.
You can’t make water thicker so to get the same effect (as thick oil), it’s necessary to restrict water flow. Place your thumb over the hose opening, which significantly increases water pressure making the stream travel much farther. Although the pressure is greatly increased, the volume is greatly decreased. This is what happens when you use thicker than recommended oil in an engine; pressure goes up, volume goes down.
Too thick oil, wonderful oil pressure, yet parts inside the engine could actually be starved for oil due to lowered volume. Another downer, circulating oil accounts for nearly 50% of engine cooling, so reduced oil-flow reduces cooling causing lubricated parts to operate at higher temperatures. Higher parts temperatures, more wear.
Too thick or too thin oils can both be bad for engines, but damage is neither immediate nor catastrophic; it just reduces overall engine life. Consider that using improper oil could reduce engine life by a conservative ten thousand miles. At a value of fifty cents per driven mile, in a one-hundred-car-fleet, that would be a loss of one million miles for a value loss of five million dollars.
Always use the oil recommended by the engine manufacturer. Believe it or not, you don’t know more about oils than the people who designed and built the engine.
They do it here for reaching the mpg standards/ pleasing bark eaters like yourself . Engineering facts have proven what's good for an engine when they were engineered at that point in time. An engine in 1960's has tolerances that aren't as tight as today's. You need a thinner oil with tighter tolerances to provide proper lubrication to vital engine parts. I'd suggest you CHECK the facts before you post. Go back to your iphone...sit in your craftsman home with your 80k education you could've gotten at the local library in a $1.50 in late fees. Oh and go vote for Hillary while your at it when the election rolls around and don't forget the cool aid at the entrance.![[bootyshake]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_bootyshake.gif "Booty Shake [bootyshake]")
P.s. DFWM
P.s. DFWM
Can't we all just get along?
These threads always interest me in both the useful interesting tidbits, and the ideas behind people's opinions, and then the hilarious explosion of disagreement that quickly turns into whose weenie's longer.
In my old LT1 Camaro, I used 20w50. It called for 10w30 and I didn't care. Oil pressure would suffer hammering on the thing for periods longer than about 30 seconds. So I used heavier oil, because heavier hot oil kept my oil pressure up and it was cheaper than tearing everything apart and putting in a higher volume oil pump, blah blah blah blah blah... Just a case of "What if I try this?"
As far as oil is concerned in my FiST, I haven't had it long enough to come up with an opinion (which is why I'm reading this!)... I'm kind of with Siestarider here in that I am more concerned about oil breakdown due to daily driving than track duty. I don't see why 5w20 would hurt anything. I don't see why 5w30 would hurt anything. I don't see why you'd need heavier oil, or why that would hurt anything. I'd be way more concerned with the quality of the oil, keeping an eye on temps/levels/pressures, and then inspecting the oil afterwards. I don't run Pennzoil in ANYTHING because I saw it break down very quickly in a truck I had. I also don't use FRAM oil filters because two of them in a row collapsed and starved my old man's enduro car motor of oil. I've heard of others with great experiences with both brands, I just... didn't. Lol.
To the OP, what did you end up using, and how did it go? What did it look like afterward?
-Travis
These threads always interest me in both the useful interesting tidbits, and the ideas behind people's opinions, and then the hilarious explosion of disagreement that quickly turns into whose weenie's longer.
In my old LT1 Camaro, I used 20w50. It called for 10w30 and I didn't care. Oil pressure would suffer hammering on the thing for periods longer than about 30 seconds. So I used heavier oil, because heavier hot oil kept my oil pressure up and it was cheaper than tearing everything apart and putting in a higher volume oil pump, blah blah blah blah blah... Just a case of "What if I try this?"
As far as oil is concerned in my FiST, I haven't had it long enough to come up with an opinion (which is why I'm reading this!)... I'm kind of with Siestarider here in that I am more concerned about oil breakdown due to daily driving than track duty. I don't see why 5w20 would hurt anything. I don't see why 5w30 would hurt anything. I don't see why you'd need heavier oil, or why that would hurt anything. I'd be way more concerned with the quality of the oil, keeping an eye on temps/levels/pressures, and then inspecting the oil afterwards. I don't run Pennzoil in ANYTHING because I saw it break down very quickly in a truck I had. I also don't use FRAM oil filters because two of them in a row collapsed and starved my old man's enduro car motor of oil. I've heard of others with great experiences with both brands, I just... didn't. Lol.
To the OP, what did you end up using, and how did it go? What did it look like afterward?
-Travis
I too don't see that 5w20 would hurt the engine. However, if the operator is going to use the car on the track they will be introducing more heat and therefore thinning the oil more necessitating more MOFT to maintain the same or close to the same hydrodynamic regime. Of course there others running on the track with 5w20 who haven't blown up yet, but haven't blown up yet really isn't a good measure of the correct oil choice. I could care less about my FiST blowing up so after I get sufficient trending on 5w30 for giggles I may drop to 5w20 and see where things go, but that will only have marginal value to the audience since UOA's aren't a good identifier of engine wear.
I too don't see that 5w20 would hurt the engine. However, if the operator is going to use the car on the track they will be introducing more heat and therefore thinning the oil more necessitating more MOFT to maintain the same or close to the same hydrodynamic regime. Of course there others running on the track with 5w20 who haven't blown up yet, but haven't blown up yet really isn't a good measure of the correct oil choice. I could care less about my FiST blowing up so after I get sufficient trending on 5w30 for giggles I may drop to 5w20 and see where things go, but that will only have marginal value to the audience since UOA's aren't a good identifier of engine wear.
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