Thinking about Building a Tuner Pinto or Mustang2 with an EcoBoost Motor

[Enduro95]

I was wondering how easy it is to drop an EcoBoost motor in a Pinto or Mustang2 for my everyday driver? I already own a Fiesta ST and I absolutely love it. I was contemplating this so that I can have a cheap car as my everyday driver so I can limit the miles on my awesome Fiesta ST.

 

[RubenZZZ]

My understanding is that running the 2.0 EB is your best option. The architecture is very similar to the Mazda 2.3/ old Ford duratec set ups. I think you can bolt up a Miata 5speed to set it up for RWD. 2.0s are super common and cheap.

Again, m not 100% sure, but I think that's the info I found a while back. I want to drop an Ecoboost into an old fox body.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I was wondering how easy it is to drop an EcoBoost motor in a Pinto or Mustang2 for my everyday driver? I already own a Fiesta ST and I absolutely love it. I was contemplating this so that I can have a cheap car as my everyday driver so I can limit the miles on my awesome Fiesta ST.

Well, a 2.3EB from a newer mustang is probably a good bet since it's already mounted longitudinally. You're going to have to transplant the ECU and do all the plumbing and whatnot - might want to look into whether it's worth the effort. Also if you're in CA, even if the car is pre-smog, you're going to have to get smogged based on the donor car which is a pain in the nards. More info here https://www.bar.ca.gov/Industry/Engine_Change_Guidelines.aspx

There are a few forums around with really detailed information on the process of getting a car street legal in CA with an engine swap. I used to swap PFI v8's into Fieros and it was quite interesting to get smogged, but that was post-1976 engine into a post-1976 car so it was a little different. I believe you have to move over *all* of the smog equipment from the engine donor. I was going to build a V8 Miata using a ford 5.0 a while back, but having to fit all the cats and stuff under the Miata really diminished my interest in the project.

 

[Zerodameaon]

Also if you're in CA, even if the car is pre-smog, you're going to have to get smogged based on the donor car which is a pain in the nards.

As far as I know this is not true. I have a friend who is a smog tech and I just asked him if this was a recent change and he said no, it is based on the chassis year not the engine in regards to requiring smog.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

As far as I know this is not true. I have a friend who is a smog tech and I just asked him if this was a recent change and he said no, it is based on the chassis year not the engine in regards to requiring smog.

Smog techs and smog refs are two different things with different scopes of influence - a smog tech probably wouldn't be fully familiar with the process. When you get an initial certification done by a ref you get a stack of paperwork so the smog techs know how to handle it when you go in. The ref basically sets the metrics which your future visits are measured against. Some people go ahead and do it anyways and don't bother with the smog certification process, but there can be some really steep penalties if they're ever busted. Personally, I have bad luck and always get busted any time I do something wrong, so I followed the letter of the law with my swaps.

Here's CA's legal statement on swapping a post-smog engine into a pre-smog car:
"Non-OBD-II 1 certified vehicles receiving an OBD-II certified engine must meet the following:
1. The donor engine must be in a stock certified configuration, and support ALL the certified OBD-II functionality
2. Modifications of the intake and exhaust system are permissible only if necessary to accommodate the packaging of the vehicle and only if they do not affect the functionality of the systems. Any changes must not modify the stock functional design of the components (i.e. the intake air box must not be modified, EGR valves still properly mounted, etc.)
3. The transmission and evaporative systems will be allowed to remain in the recipient vehicle configuration, but must function appropriately (see 9 below)
4. ALL of the requirements (1-9) listed below for “All model year vehicles”"

Here's a direct link to the documentation for "State of California - Engine Change Guidelines": https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/Smog_Check_Reference_Guide.pdf

Having personally done several smog-legal swaps that required referee certification before registration, it's a huge pain in the ass going from OBD to OBD. The worst part with my V8 fiero swaps was this, listed below:

-----
Swapping a post OBD engine into a post OBD car:
Vehicles originally equipped with OBD-II must receive an OBD-II certified engine and meet the following: 1. All emission system configurations must be in the original emission control system configuration as the donor vehicle, including, but not limited to, the transmission, evaporative system, exhaust, and intake 2. ALL of the requirements (1-9) listed below for “All model year vehicles”.
-----

All of the FWD v8's that could be easily swapped into Fieros were only available with automatic transmissions. Totally frustrating. At least with a ford 5.0 swap into a Miata you can use a pretty decent 5 speed.

 

[Zerodameaon]

His college was the smog ref and he was in the program basically doing the actual refs job so he is aware of what needs to be done.

Being a pre 76 the car doesn't need to be smogged even with OBD II per your PDF above. Page 1-5 has a red X on the none category for 1975 and earlier. It sounds like a non OBD or OBD-1 1980 car will need to function properly as OBD II if you toss a OBD II engine in it but if it is a 1923 car with OBD II you don't need to smog it. Basically it sounds like you have been wasting your money on getting a car setup for smog that did not require it.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

His college was the smog ref and he was in the program basically doing the actual refs job so he is aware of what needs to be done.

Being a pre 76 the car doesn't need to be smogged even with OBD II per your PDF above. Page 1-5 has a red X on the none category for 1975 and earlier. It sounds like a non OBD or OBD-1 1980 car will need to function properly as OBD II if you toss a OBD II engine in it but if it is a 1923 car with OBD II you don't need to smog it. Basically it sounds like you have been wasting your money on getting a car setup for smog that did not require it.

I think the Pinto was produced until... 1980 or 1981? So 76-later should definitely be avoided (and the ugly bumpers!). The rules do change over time which is important to note - I think what I linked is the last rev from... 2018? I’ve always made sure I was in compliance with whatever the current regs were for what I was doing because having a car impounded/crushed after building it would suck and I typically had a lot of time and money invested. At the end of the day all I’m saying is - anyone who’s going to do it *really* needs to research it, because CA smog laws are rife with confusing language. i.e. it’s legal to replace your intake hoses with “functionally equivalent” aftermarket equivalents... but nowhere are the terms defined. What constitutes a functional equivalent - a crossover pipe? The intake elbow? Why isn’t a MAF adapter with a filter (hot air intake) a “functional equivalent” if it doesn’t touch the emissions gear? The conspiracy theorist in me says it’s deliberately nebulous. CARB is a revenue generator at the end of the day, so just do your homework if you’re going to swap. Getting an obd2 engine swapped into a different car can be a beast depending on the donor. The Cadillac North Star engine was a *great* swap, but you had to transplant the *hvac* cluster and controls and auto trans for obd2 to be happy. PAIN IN THE BALLS.

They’ve made improvements in registering kit/custom cars luckily. I almost bought an out of state Atom a few years ago but they’d certify only a tiny number per year. It’s muuuuch better now but I am more interested in building an exocet which is like an Atom but registers/smogs as a Miata

 

[Zerodameaon]

I can't say how it was before the mid 90s but the regs have been the same for 75 and older for 20 years at least. The last time they were really updated beyond minor additions was to deal with the 2000 and up not needing tailpipe emissions tests. Specifically I am just talking about pre 76 cars, you have to have the donor engines emissions stuff in tact but you do not need to smog it like cars from 76 on ever or even have it certified. 76 or newer you must follow all the laws for the smog stuff there and in the other various CVCs. This is the reason pre 76 cars with any value to anyone modifying cars are holding value since you just don't need to deal with the state when dropping a LS7 into a 1974 E30 Corolla.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I can't say how it was before the mid 90s but the regs have been the same for 75 and older for 20 years at least. The last time they were really updated beyond minor additions was to deal with the 2000 and up not needing tailpipe emissions tests. Specifically I am just talking about pre 76 cars, you have to have the donor engines emissions stuff in tact but you do not need to smog it like cars from 76 on ever or even have it certified. 76 or newer you must follow all the laws for the smog stuff there and in the other various CVCs. This is the reason pre 76 cars with any value to anyone modifying cars are holding value since you just don't need to deal with the state when dropping a LS7 into a 1974 E30 Corolla.

Not the 75 or older bit, (I still lament the change to the rolling 30 year exemption) but the obd migration into an older car. I think the first time I investigated it was because I wanted to do a GN engine swap into a 1964 Chevy II - the section on engine replacements has been revised since the 90’s. My recommendation still stands that anyone wanting to do it needs to do research to be sure.

 

[Dpro]

Not the 75 or older bit, (I still lament the change to the rolling 30 year exemption) but the obd migration into an older car. I think the first time I investigated it was because I wanted to do a GN engine swap into a 1964 Chevy II - the section on engine replacements has been revised since the 90’s. My recommendation still stands that anyone wanting to do it needs to do research to be sure.

No actually he is right if you have anything older than 75 they don’t give two fucks about what is powering it. I know this because I have been playing with engine swaps for years in the Nissan engine world and Zerodaemon knows me from that world and can vouch for that.
There are Hybrid 240z’s out there with SR20DET Japanese only engines in them fully registered running around SoCal in fact there is a shop that specializes in the swap.
There is also a guy Orange county running a VQ35 350Z engine 240z fully registered as welll
What you sight pertains to putting engines into cars that still require smog tests at which point you are required to put all the smog equipment from the year of the engine you are swapping in order for the referee to pass it at which point you get approval but referees for the most part tend to be dicks so they will make you bend over backwards with stupid requirements like the cats have to be in the exact same position they were in the donor car when put into the trapslant car.
Ask me how I know all this well because I was going to drop a VQ35 in a 240sx and make it smog legal. There is a big thread over on Zilvia that I was a major part of along with my old buddy IB I am drift freaq on Zilvia.
I also have friends that bring in 25 year or older cars from Japan. Trust me I have talked to many refs in my years. Cool ones and asswipes.
There is the whole resto rod deal where GM sells smog legal crate LS1’s to be put into old hot rods. That was a deal Sema worked out. Idea being you could put a current motor in your rod and be all cleaner burning and still making more power than the old Chevy small blocks.

Though if the car is older than 1976 you can stick any damn engine you want it and make it run as its completely smog exempt.
I also have a friend with a RB25DET ( R33 Skyline GTST engine) in his 72 240z . He is car is registered and road legal oh and he is a Smog tech as well .

 

[Clint Beastwood]

No actually he is right if you have anything older than 75 they don’t give two fucks about what is powering it. I know this because I have been playing with engine swaps for years in the Nissan engine world and Zerodaemon knows me from that world and can vouch for that.
There are Hybrid 240z’s out there with SR20DET Japanese only engines in them fully registered running around SoCal in fact there is a shop that specializes in the swap.
There is also a guy Orange county running a VQ35 350Z engine 240z fully registered as welll
What you sight pertains to putting engines into cars that still require smog tests at which point you are required to put all the smog equipment from the year of the engine you are swapping in order for the referee to pass it at which point you get approval but referees for the most part tend to be dicks so they will make you bend over backwards with stupid requirements like the cats have to be in the exact same position they were in the donor car when put into the trapslant car.
Ask me how I know all this well because I was going to drop a VQ35 in a 240sx and make it smog legal. There is a big thread over on Zilvia that I was a major part of along with my old buddy IB I am drift freaq on Zilvia.
I also have friends that bring in 25 year or older cars from Japan. Trust me I have talked to many refs in my years. Cool ones and asswipes.
There is the whole resto rod deal where GM sells smog legal crate LS1’s to be put into old hot rods. That was a deal Sema worked out. Idea being you could put a current motor in your rod and be all cleaner burning and still making more power than the old Chevy small blocks.

Though if the car is older than 1976 you can stick any damn engine you want it and make it run as its completely smog exempt.
I also have a friend with a RB25DET ( R33 Skyline GTST engine) in his 72 240z . He is car is registered and road legal oh and he is a Smog tech as well .

Thanks for the bevy of feedback - out of curiosity I emailed my dad about the GN Nova last night since it's been a few years - the original chevy was fire damaged without a VIN and most of the frame destroyed so we were going to wind up swapping the body onto a cut/welded olds frame from an 80's t-type meaning the whole thing would've had to be registered as an olds and get smogged which wasn't worth the effort vs. just buying another T-Type. My apologies, I was remembering it as a pure smog issue because of the engine, not the VIN stuff. If we were doing it now we would probably just try to snag an elusive SB100 registration, but those can be pretty hard to get (I think its 500 a year)

I still *really* recommend that anyone looking to undertake a swap *especially* post 1975 do thorough research, because CA smog regs do change occasionally and the price of being wrong or out of compliance can be high. I imagine in the next few years it's going to get harder and harder to keep pre-smog cars on the road - thats just the "vibe" in CA these last 10 or so years (at least in OC - it's "hybrid or GTFO").

IF pre-smog cars with obd2 engines are really that much easier to register (despite the PITA migration of all the ECU stuff) an ecoboost 1.6 in the back of a Porsche 914 would be pretty awesome. Maybe an ecoboost 3.5TT from an F150 into a 65 lincoln? I *do* miss how easy engine swaps are with pre-emissions drivetrains though. Connect fuel and basic electrics and its ready to rock.

Ask me how I know all this well because I was going to drop a VQ35 in a 240sx and make it smog legal.

For a sec I thought you said 240Z and got excited - I just dropped an offer on one as a project car but with an extreme build of the original straight 6 - I'm a huge fan of the VQ's (though mine were vq30's (supercharged 4g maximas), one with a swapped middle east variable intake) but wouldn't a high strung turbo 4 better suit the character of a 240SX? I looked for an SX for a while after driving a BRZ and being disappointed but it proved really difficult to find one that was a) stock/unmolested and b) not automatic.

Posting about the Exocet has me creepin' on craigslist looking for a miata donor car again. I was thinking an Exocet kit car with the Flyin' Miata offroad kit lol



THIS

PLUS THIS

 

[Dpro]

Thanks for the bevy of feedback - out of curiosity I emailed my dad about the GN Nova last night since it's been a few years - the original chevy was fire damaged without a VIN and most of the frame destroyed so we were going to wind up swapping the body onto a cut/welded olds frame from an 80's t-type meaning the whole thing would've had to be registered as an olds and get smogged which wasn't worth the effort vs. just buying another T-Type. My apologies, I was remembering it as a pure smog issue because of the engine, not the VIN stuff. If we were doing it now we would probably just try to snag an elusive SB100 registration, but those can be pretty hard to get (I think its 500 a year)

I still *really* recommend that anyone looking to undertake a swap *especially* post 1975 do thorough research, because CA smog regs do change occasionally and the price of being wrong or out of compliance can be high. I imagine in the next few years it's going to get harder and harder to keep pre-smog cars on the road - thats just the "vibe" in CA these last 10 or so years (at least in OC - it's "hybrid or GTFO").

IF pre-smog cars with obd2 engines are really that much easier to register (despite the PITA migration of all the ECU stuff) an ecoboost 1.6 in the back of a Porsche 914 would be pretty awesome. Maybe an ecoboost 3.5TT from an F150 into a 65 lincoln? I *do* miss how easy engine swaps are with pre-emissions drivetrains though. Connect fuel and basic electrics and its ready to rock.


For a sec I thought you said 240Z and got excited - I just dropped an offer on one as a project car but with an extreme build of the original straight 6 - I'm a huge fan of the VQ's (though mine were vq30's (supercharged 4g maximas), one with a swapped middle east variable intake) but wouldn't a high strung turbo 4 better suit the character of a 240SX? I looked for an SX for a while after driving a BRZ and being disappointed but it proved really difficult to find one that was a) stock/unmolested and b) not automatic.

Posting about the Exocet has me creepin' on craigslist looking for a miata donor car again. I was thinking an Exocet kit car with the Flyin' Miata offroad kit lol



THIS

PLUS THIS

Ya problem with 240sx is they are still in the smog world. Oh and so many have been destroyed by kids who wanted to dorifto and did not have a clue, that they are extremely hard to find clean.

Oh and actually you are welcome to get excited as yes I do have plans for a VQ 240Z! 240Z’s were my first full blown sports cars. Before that I owned Datsun 510’s.
I had 7-8 240z’s and regret selling off all the at a time when they were cheap to obtain. I have a line on a couple right now. One I might pickup and flip and the other could be a great project car.
I have always felt that putting in a lighter engine that sits behind the strut towers would really improve the handling of the car as with the stock inline six they understeered heavily until you power oversteered them which was a common way to drive them fast.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Ya problem with 240sx is they are still in the smog world. Oh and so many have been destroyed by kids who wanted to dorifto and did not have a clue, that they are extremely hard to find clean.

Oh and actually you are welcome to get excited as yes I do have plans for a VQ 240Z! 240Z’s were my first full blown sports cars. Before that I owned Datsun 510’s.
I had 7-8 240z’s and regret selling off all the at a time when they were cheap to obtain. I have a line on a couple right now. One I might pickup and flip and the other could be a great project car.
I have always felt that putting in a lighter engine that sits behind the strut towers would really improve the handling of the car as with the stock inline six they understeered heavily until you power oversteered them which was a common way to drive them fast.

I threw down a bid for 13k - low mileage and had the old school 70's clear headlight covers and louvered rear window, all original everything with factory paint. They're getting really hard to find except randos out in the IE. If I can't get a 240z I'll look for the oldest 70's celica GT I can find, the mini-mustang looking ones

 

[Dpro]

I threw down a bid for 13k - low mileage and had the old school 70's clear headlight covers and louvered rear window, all original everything with factory paint. They're getting really hard to find except randos out in the IE. If I can't get a 240z I'll look for the oldest 70's celica GT I can find, the mini-mustang looking ones

Ya I have my limits as to how much I am willing to pay for a 240z. I do not want to get a car to be a museum piece lol. I want something I can take out and flog sometimes.
I went through that whole routine with my M3’s I had the drive it like you stole it one and got rid of it because it had high mileage and was salvage title but it was setup and stout and was a blast. It got hit and I took advantage of getting all my money out of it. I had already bought the uber rare slicktop model and then realized I cannot drive because I did not want to put mileage on it and because it was one of kind here in the U.S. So it barely gets driven. It will be up for sale shortly.

 

[shouldbeasy]

My 'dream' is to take an Escape AWD and tuck it in to a Fiesta...

 

[Clint Beastwood]

My 'dream' is to take an Escape AWD and tuck it in to a Fiesta...

I dunno man it might kill the super light feel
I'd hate to put that much time into a project and wind up bummed about it. What about a Focus RS swap into a Ford Transit Connect lol