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What's the verdict on the rear camber shims?

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#1
Dpro's been selling the shit out of them and I'm sure Ron's sold more than a few of the DNAs, gotta be more than a hundred sets out there. What's the verdict on handling? Better stick or better slide?
 


RubenZZZ

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#2
I purchased some but haven't installed yet.

My understanding is more grip... the slippery butt handling is for casual fun driving. I like to really push it when i go for canyon runs.


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Jabbit

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#3
Makes a big difference relative to the overall cost. Dpro rear camber plates are a no-brainer for anyone that wants to up the grip on these cars.
 


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Los Angeles
#4
It makes a noticable difference in the corners for sure. There are times you feel the back end want to kick out, the plates make it so you don't hit that point until you're at higher speeds/harder cornering.

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green_henry

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#5
I rarely make one change at a time, so it's hard to attribute any performance improvements directly to the camber, but I can say that my track times have improved. I don't see a down side.
 


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Location
Beverly Hills
#6
I have a set of rear DNAs and tempted to throw them on to increase rear tire wear on the track as my outside tire wears out a lot more than the insides even playing with tire pressures.

I was cautious of them creating more understeer but with my front camber at closer to -3, I'm more open to throwing on the DNA to get closer to -2 from my existing -.8 give or take.

Also have been trying to dial out the best spring rates and tire pressures.

As is, I like the way my car rotates with front -3, rear -0.8, 8/6 spring rates, 35psi front and 38ish rear psi on the Dunlop z3s, rear dna rear solid bushing, rear torsion bar from one of the popular companies here.

Was delighted when I spun out at hdpe event in Jul (adds fun and excitement to unintentionally go off-road as long as nothing breaks or anyone gets hurt). At autoX where I don't have much experience also found the car easy to rotate and very confidence inspiring. Maybe more rear camber would make it harder to spin out but also anxious if it messes up how nicely the car rotates.
 


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Magnetic

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Tempe, AZ, USA
#7
Makes a big difference relative to the overall cost. Dpro rear camber plates are a no-brainer for anyone that wants to up the grip on these cars.
Does it wear there tires unusually? Any downsides in that respect?
 


jeffreylyon

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#8
Makes a big difference relative to the overall cost. Dpro rear camber plates are a no-brainer for anyone that wants to up the grip on these cars.
This is simply not true. Adding rear camber is not a no brainer. There is no such thing as "add[ing] grip".

In the most simple context, we can increase front or rear traction relative to the opposite by doing any single or combination of modifications. Adding or reducing roll stiffness will decrease or increase weight transfer which will decrease or increase the size of the friction circle *and* reduce or increase the amount of camber change due to chassis roll. Adding or reducing negative camber so that the tire sits square to the pavement under any given load will increase the size of its friction circle (grip). Add that up: a rear torsion bar or anti-sway bar decreases rear traction (relative to front) and decreases camber change, reducing the need for more static negative camber. Stick both on and claiming victory may be total placebo.

The best way to figure out if you need more negative rear camber is to shag your car and take tire temps. If the outside of the rears is markedly hotter than the inside then more rear camber would add more rear grip. That doesn't mean that you'd want more rear grip as such would increase understeer, i.e. fun decrease-er. If the temps are even then, either, you aren't anywhere near your tires' limit of grip or your camber is perfect. If you're a canyon carver and are wearing the outside of your rears, chalk them to make sure you aren't rolling them over and, if not, give the camber plates a shot.

All the above said, I have an unmounted set of camber plates and, once work lets me get back to test-n-tune days, will play w/ them to see if they work out for me.
 


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Location
Salem, OR, USA
#9
This is simply not true. Adding rear camber is not a no brainer. There is no such thing as "add[ing] grip".

In the most simple context, we can increase front or rear traction relative to the opposite by doing any single or combination of modifications. Adding or reducing roll stiffness will decrease or increase weight transfer which will decrease or increase the size of the friction circle *and* reduce or increase the amount of camber change due to chassis roll. Adding or reducing negative camber so that the tire sits square to the pavement under any given load will increase the size of its friction circle (grip). Add that up: a rear torsion bar or anti-sway bar decreases rear traction (relative to front) and decreases camber change, reducing the need for more static negative camber. Stick both on and claiming victory may be total placebo.

The best way to figure out if you need more negative rear camber is to shag your car and take tire temps. If the outside of the rears is markedly hotter than the inside then more rear camber would add more rear grip. That doesn't mean that you'd want more rear grip as such would increase understeer, i.e. fun decrease-er. If the temps are even then, either, you aren't anywhere near your tires' limit of grip or your camber is perfect. If you're a canyon carver and are wearing the outside of your rears, chalk them to make sure you aren't rolling them over and, if not, give the camber plates a shot.

All the above said, I have an unmounted set of camber plates and, once work lets me get back to test-n-tune days, will play w/ them to see if they work out for me.

I didn't like mine personally, it caused the balance of the car to shift towards understeering up front rather than manageable oversteer in the rear. I think it's because the batch I got added almost 3 degrees in the rear. I could add more camber up front to probably balance it out, but I really enjoyed the way the car was set-up previously and I think I'm probably going to take them out.
 


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Location
Beverly Hills
#10
Does it wear there tires unusually? Any downsides in that respect?
I would it think it depends on how and where you drive the car.

With the Fiesta, I think -3 front -2 rear will get the most even tire wear on hpde and probably autoX or if you do a lot of events but don't want to go to the alignment shop too often.
I think -2 front -1 rear will make the most sense for mostly daily driven car. That also worked pretty good on my Fiesta, mostly stock suspension or Meister 8/6 coils with maybe 5-6 days of HPDE and 1 autoX event with my first set of Z3 tires.
Tire wear on the outside tire wasn't so great but not so bad I destroyed a set of new tires with a single track day.
Now on -3 and -0.8 to -1 rears and car drives totally acceptable, rotates well, tire wear a lot better so I save money on tire wear in the long run.
If I were to get the rear camber shims it would be to save a bit more money on increasing tire wear in the long run.

With other cars, had -2 front and -2 rear on my daily beater civic and it just wore out inside of my rear tires a lot more.
Had it switched to -2 front and -1 rear, then the rears had more even tire wear.
Couldn't really discernably tell if there was a difference in rotation or less understeer there as Im not that good a driver that I cant drive 10/10 on the streets.

Had -2 front and rear on my evo, used mostly for hpde and a bit of canyon driving, very little street driving. I wore out the outsides of the front more and rear a tad less so, even with tire pressures dialed in.
Switched to -3 front and -2 rear and got much more even tire wear. Car seemed more willing to rotate but wasn't as notable as I'd wish for.
 


Woods247

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#11
FWIW, I have been using washers on the lower two rear hub bolts for years (-2.7). Living dangerously, I know 😉 . When I installed the DPro plates it was more aggressive. Inside temps were hotter that the rest of the tire so I pulled them and went back to washers. I don’t know what the camber measurement is because they weren’t on the car long enough to check. I’m not sure if they vary but I’d say mine are likely over -3.

They’re a nice part but too aggressive my driving style and location. If he makes a mellower cut I will definitely buy another set. I’ve found -2.7 to be perfect (even tire temps after sessions) but everyone will have their own preference of course.
 


Messages
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Location
Beverly Hills
#12
what is your front camber?
would think -2.7 rear is a lot even if you have -3 front or so.

running more than -3 rear would terrify me.
 


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