LOVE the ride moving to Eibach springs on my '17, would a thicker front sway bar help with body roll?

[danbfree]

Looking for those directly experienced in lowering body roll when using a progressive spring to maybe give me some advice...

So let me just add, I know the '17+ FiST's have slightly thicker FSB, RTB and slightly softer shocks/struts compared to the first 3 model years and I find the Eibach springs to be a perfect match for the ride I want. I can now see how going to even softer Koni Orange would be too soft as far as shocks/struts, so I'm happy with the stockers with 30.5k miles on them for now... However, I do want to control body roll a touch more for cornering but also don't want to start adding understeer either. So I'm looking at reasonable priced, reasonable thickness FSB's to hopefully help. With this car it seems really hard to induce understeer at all but instead get the typical oversteer with the back coming around... SO, do I need the full set of front and rear upgrade bars to maintain "balance", or will just doing the front keep the body roll in check and keep the rear coming around predictably? Also, should I replace control arms or tie rod ends while I'm in there? I don't mind spending a little more if it helps with a more solid steering feel not that mine is bad now at such low miles, but they are econobox factory parts so is there any kind of reasonable upgrade there to recommend? So just to be clear, I'm not trying to win races/auto-x at all, I just want to lower body roll as a personal preference and hopefully have even slightly more predictable handling and better steering feel if at all reasonable to do. TIA!

 

[PunkST]

Id get the full set of swaybars. Too thick of a front bar with no rear can cause understeer. And downright spooky handling in wet weather. Imo its like they designed the kits that way so you'd have to spend the extra to get the mostly flat cornering of the stock setup back again.



Im at 103k on eibachs and 17' dampers/struts. And im not too happy with them anymore. I keep getting noise when the springs dont have full weight on them. Idk if its my spring pads or what. But in going back to stock 17' springs and dampers, and my factory 16' front bar.

 

[green_henry]

Id get the full set of swaybars. Too thick of a front bar with no rear can cause understeer. And downright spooky handling in wet weather. Imo its like they designed the kits that way so you'd have to spend the extra to get the mostly flat cornering of the stock setup back again.

Im at 103k on eibachs and 17' dampers/struts. And im not too happy with them anymore. I keep getting noise when the springs dont have full weight on them. Idk if its my spring pads or what. But in going back to stock 17' springs and dampers, and my factory 16' front bar.

Are the rear springs noisy and do you have the polyurethane spring pads? If so, this sounds a lot like the issues I had with another car and the rear sway bar bushings -- a little Mobil 1 grease on the bushings resolved it.

 

[PunkST]

Yup rear springs are noisy on big weight transfers. Or when they unload while moving slow over a big dip. Still on stock spring pads.

 

[green_henry]

Yup rear springs are noisy on big weight transfers. Or when they unload while moving slow over a big dip. Still on stock spring pads.

Ok, rather than giving up on the Eibachs, I'd recommend getting a set of Powerflex pads to replace the stock pads -- even if you ultimately revert to the stock springs, the Powerflex pads are a nice upgrade (with or without a film of Mobil 1 grease).

 

[PunkST]

I could try those first. Couldnt hurt. Im close to tucking tire out back. Ill get under it this weekend and really take a look to see the culprit.

 

[Dpro]

Eibachs are crap first hand experience here. They sag over time and do get noisy I would not run them on any car anymore.
OP is better off getting Whiteline’sinstead of trying to cheap out with Eibachs. Whitelines are not that much more than Eibach‘s. I would recommend Swifts but I don’t think OP is willing to spring for them

As far as Swaybar‘s go OP has a bigger front stock bar and adding a rear bar would offset that.
It’s not like our cars have a ton of bodyroll they have some but not much. I have seen much more in other platforms.

 

[HBEcoBeaST]

I run tb bracing front and back. They control body roll a lot as well as improving traction, torque steer and wheel hop. It feels very similar to adding swaybars. Much cheaper and easier too.

Keep in mind away bars and traction bars will help side to side movement, but not fore and aft movement from accelerating and braking. That's more of your strut/spring's job. I didn't realize how much movement I had until replacing my suspension with Bilstein coilovers.

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[draxxus131]

I run tb bracing front and back. They control body roll a lot as well as improving traction, torque steer and wheel hop. It feels very similar to adding swaybars. Much cheaper and easier too.

Keep in mind away bars and traction bars will help side to side movement, but not fore and aft movement from accelerating and braking. That's more of your strut/spring's job. I didn't realize how much movement I had until replacing my suspension with Bilstein coilovers.

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Although those braces do not directly impact body roll, I understand what you are trying to get at, the braces help with counteracting flex within the suspension mounting points. The reality is that body roll will only be remedied by front swaybars and/or coilovers,shocks/struts.

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[danbfree]

Although those braces do not directly impact body roll, I understand what you are trying to get at, the braces help with counteracting flex within the suspension mounting points. The reality is that body roll will only be remedied by front swaybars and/or coilovers,shocks/struts.

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Since I was away for a bit, I'll make some general comments after reading all the replies, thanks to everyone for their input . I'm going to get the full front and rear Eibach sway bar kit then fairly soon, I'm pretty sure they are designed to go together and will give me what I'm looking for... I already have a TB Performance traction bar and am now considering that new subframe brace from Ron to add instead of going with a gusset brace and having a slightly bent traction bar no one else will want, lol... I'll also have to keep my eye on pads and springs wearing out but I'm at less than 32k now total, about 5k on the springs. I never considered Eibach cheap in any sense, they are twice the price of the eBay cheapies and have a million mile warranty. Honestly I hope to keep my car long term but could get rid of it in a couple of years, depending on a number of things but if they sag over time I'll have to try to warranty them, depending on how long I keep the car. I'll change the mount pads as soon as I notice any slop but could be a while. I'm not sure how often I should change the dampers, I'm thinking staying with '17+ OEM medium firm should continue to be a good match to the Eibach springs for ride and the sway bar kit will handle body roll. If you want the best of both worlds, you gotta invest in both items...

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[PunkST]

I think dampers and shock may be a 70k mile "lifespan" depending on driving habits and road conditions. I may just be basing this off my old svtf and how quickly the shocks wore down.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I roll With the 60k figure for Replacement. But then again it comes down to the shock design and manufacturer also!

 

[danbfree]

Id get the full set of swaybars. Too thick of a front bar with no rear can cause understeer. And downright spooky handling in wet weather. Imo its like they designed the kits that way so you'd have to spend the extra to get the mostly flat cornering of the stock setup back again.



Im at 103k on eibachs and 17' dampers/struts. And im not too happy with them anymore. I keep getting noise when the springs dont have full weight on them. Idk if its my spring pads or what. But in going back to stock 17' springs and dampers, and my factory 16' front bar.

Hey, I appreciate all your input and since you said this originally I started looking at this more... I'm thinking that since the factory FSB is 21mm on a '17 with the softer dampers, wouldn't going to a 25mm with the progressive Eibachs on top of that be a good match? In other words, on the setup you have now, which is exactly mine now too, thinking back before the pads were wearing out, don't you think a 25mm FSB would have been fine in this case without a rear? Honestly, I'd like to do the upgraded front and have the money to do my speakers too.

 

[PunkST]

I couldnt say for sure. I haven't tested any sway bars on this car. My zx3 did not like having a thick front and thin rear. But that car was 4 wheel independent suspension.

 

[danbfree]

I couldnt say for sure. I haven't tested any sway bars on this car. My zx3 did not like having a thick front and thin rear. But that car was 4 wheel independent suspension.

Fair enough, I can see how i would make a huge difference with IRS, I'm almost thinking that with progressive springs and no RSB with a twist beam in the rear, but a thick one with fully independent McPherson setup in the front, we can prob visualize how the ass end would probably go squat and then swing out at the tire limits well before the front breaks into understeer, so it depends on how spin happy in a dangerous way or not it is in actual practice... I guess I could try it in some remote curvy roads I have pretty close by and see how I feel about it, in both dry and wet before deciding if I want to add a rear, but just want slightly flatter/less body roll from the front going into curves, really... BUT, it seems those most serious about performance add the RSB or torsion brace, but for lower Auto-X classes you can only have 1 total anyway, right? I wasn't planning to get into Auto-X originally but I'm thinking I might dabble in a bit this summer...

 

[PunkST]

Id say try an empty parking lot first. It can give you an idea on flat ground. With some run off at least. ( watch for poles)

 

[PunkST]

If you must add only one. Do the rear, if it hampers time at an event its way easier to unbolt it

 

[danbfree]

If you must add only one. Do the rear, if it hampers time at an event its way easier to unbolt it

Interesting... I'll keep that in mind, I still have some thinking to do, but now I'm back to leaning towards doing the front and rear set.. thanks again for the input!

 

[Dpro]

If you must add only one. Do the rear, if it hampers time at an event its way easier to unbolt it

I agree with this assessment. I am only doing the rear on my car and I am only doing it after I did rear camber plates. Though I have friends who do not have cambers plates but also did rear only. There are few who do front but the general consensus seems to be do the rear not so much the front .

 

[danbfree]

I agree with this assessment. I am only doing the rear on my car and I am only doing it after I did rear camber plates. Though I have friends who do not have cambers plates but also did rear only. There are few who do front but the general consensus seems to be do the rear not so much the front .

Yeah, I think a lot of people's preferences were established in the first 3 model years setup, which has thinner FSB, thinner rear beam but stiffer dampers... Since I have the Eibach springs along with the softer late '16+ dampers, I'm getting excess body roll... so my thinking was if stock there is no rear then why couldn't I just beef up the front to go with the softer springs as in the original design since I also at least have the thicker rear beam to start with too... Might have to check the FB groups to see if anyone has this exact combo and what they recommend.

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