Anyone using or have heard about flatoutsuspension coilovers?

[caliboy15]

Saw this post about this company on Facebook today

http://www.flatoutsuspension.com/collections/5000/products/5000fiesta?variant=18150776196

 

[MS67]

Curious to see if it's not one of the run of the mill Chinese crap coilover sets.

 

[Flatout Sus]

Assembled right here in the US.

Insert blanks are sourced then valved, mounts and rings machined to our specs (street and rally versions), springs are from the US by Hyperco.

5 year warranty reflects quality.

We are FINALLY starting to accumulate reviews:

www.flatoutsuspension.com/products/5700mx5

www.flatoutsuspension.com/products/5710gc

www.flatoutsuspension.com/products/r1gd

(Scroll down to see the reviews tab)

Of the thousands sold, 22 total reviews. Not surprising; most often it's the unhappy that are the loudest.

 

[MS67]

Where are they manufactured? Do you provide shock dynos?

 

[Flatout Sus]

Where are they manufactured? Do you provide shock dynos?

I answered that in my response...insert blanks sourced overseas, I fill them with our guts.

Yes, I dyno test every shock to ensure a matched pair. You get the report with purchase.

 

[MS67]

No, you didn't. You told us where they're assembled. Where are they manufactured?

 

[Flatout Sus]

No, you didn't. You told us where they're assembled. Where are they manufactured?

What do you mean by "they"? THEY are manufactured/ assembled in the US using components sourced. Like an American car with parts being 60% American, 20% Japanese, 10% Romanian, 10% German. Assembled in Mexico. Is it American? Mexican? Are you basing 'manufactured' on percentage of parts origin (if so, these are American based on the highest percentage of components being made in the US), or final assembly (also US)?

The guts, the heart and soul of the shock are machined here in the US, the *metal casing* where the US built guts go into, built to our specs in Taiwan, the rings that thread onto the steel casing the insert fits into are machined in the US, springs are made in the US, the bearing that sits below the camber plate Japan, the Allen bolts that secure the camber plate, along with the 17/19/22mm nut (depending on application) I'll have to ask Fastenal if that matters. The cardboard my box is made from, don't know on that. Not sure if it's recycled or not.

Origin does not dictate quality or lack of it. I don't know why in this age it's such a concern. Granted, there are some crappy products out there but they're obvious. Mass production causes short cuts and discrepancies. That's exactly why I stay small, assemble everything myself and have no plans to go bigger. What I have going currently has me on the line of having a personal life and insanity.

I brought street stuff to market based on rally builds. I was already building Fiesta rally suspensions, so offering a revalved, reworked version of something I already had in place was a no brainer.

 

[MS67]

Dude, what's with the attitude? Someone asks a question about your product and you go on a condescending rant like we give a shit where your cardboard box is made. Not very professional. If you know so much about this market then you should be well aware of all the junk that comes from China and Taiwan, and understand the reasoning in simply asking where your products are manufactured. There are a lot of companies out there trying to sell junk disguised as the next big thing. If you can't understand the cause for concern and expect people to just throw $1300 your way, then maybe you should look into hiring someone as a customer service representative and stick to assembling suspension components.

 

[Flatout Sus]

Dude, what's with the attitude? Someone asks a question about your product and you go on a condescending rant like we give a shit where your cardboard box is made. Not very professional. If you know so much about this market then you should be well aware of all the junk that comes from China and Taiwan, and understand the reasoning in simply asking where your products are manufactured. There are a lot of companies out there trying to sell junk disguised as the next big thing. If you can't understand the cause for concern and expect people to just throw $1300 your way, then maybe you should look into hiring someone as a customer service representative and stick to assembling suspension components.

The box comment was my sense of humor, sorry it was taken as condescending, not my intention.

I am aware of junk that comes out of China and Taiwan, I'm also aware of the top notch stuff that comes out too. Really, you CAN buy quality stuff. It's a matter of how much you want to spend. I chose to spend a lot to get the best components I can from manufacturers. When I started, I didn't black list any source. If they had a good product and could meet my demands, they got a call back. If they said $20 per insert blank, I knew quality costs money and that's too cheap. I experimented with samples until I found the company that got the nod and I've been dealing with them for years.

I just picked up Hyperco springs after a switch. More cost from my wallet (double the cost of my old manufacturer) and I chose not to pass that increase in to the customers. I'm eating it in the interest of giving a quality product at a price I think is on par with expectations.

I get that even $1300 is a lot for some, my $5000 rally builds are a lot for some, but it's all about buying right the first time. I don't have to tell you that an $800 suspension vs $1800 is a HUGE price gap, but you only have to spend $1800 once and you won't regret the decision.

Again; I'm sorry if my comment came across the wrong way. You can't hear tone over text.

 

[Pete]

The box comment was my sense of humor, sorry it was taken as condescending, not my intention.

I am aware of junk that comes out of China and Taiwan, I'm also aware of the top notch stuff that comes out too. Really, you CAN buy quality stuff. It's a matter of how much you want to spend. I chose to spend a lot to get the best components I can from manufacturers. When I started, I didn't black list any source. If they had a good product and could meet my demands, they got a call back. If they said $20 per insert blank, I knew quality costs money and that's too cheap. I experimented with samples until I found the company that got the nod and I've been dealing with them for years.

I just picked up Hyperco springs after a switch. More cost from my wallet (double the cost of my old manufacturer) and I chose not to pass that increase in to the customers. I'm eating it in the interest of giving a quality product at a price I think is on par with expectations.

I get that even $1300 is a lot for some, my $5000 rally builds are a lot for some, but it's all about buying right the first time. I don't have to tell you that an $800 suspension vs $1800 is a HUGE price gap, but you only have to spend $1800 once and you won't regret the decision.

Again; I'm sorry if my comment came across the wrong way. You can't hear tone over text.

I too have seen your adds on facebook. Been thinking about the rally suspension but if I remember correctly you have a couple different options. Can you give me some more insight on the differences?

 

[Flatout Sus]

I too have seen your adds on facebook. Been thinking about the rally suspension but if I remember correctly you have a couple different options. Can you give me some more insight on the differences?

Sure, few options depending on your needs...

R5700, basically an entry level Rallycross version. Pretty versatile and I sell these more to people that want to lift and just get "the look." Great for winter time/ snow clearance, etc. -1.5 to +1.5 height range.

R5710, a more hardcore version of the R5700; same characteristics but with the addition of reservoirs for independent 2-way control.

R0, entry level stage rally, shock comes pre-set so no adjustment to the dampening. Longer springs to match the high travel shocks and the mounts are solid.

R1, same as R1 but gives 15way dampening control.

R2, same as R0/1 but also has reservoirs for +12pts of compression with 15pts of rebound on the shock.

If you do Rallycross, the R5700 is very popular. If you do stage rally, R0/1/2 just factor complexity of tuning needs and budget.

 

[KKaWing]

Found these with Google-Fu on the clubroadster forums.

 

[Flatout Sus]

Found these with Google-Fu on the clubroadster forums.

So you see turning the knob actually does something

 

[LilPartyBox]

Wow @ $1300 you are right at the top of the cost spectrum for this platform. The only thing I've seen that is substantially more are KW V3s at almost $1,600. What advantage would a customer have by going with your brand, which to many, is unheard of? I myself day dream of opening a shop and "redesigning the wheel", etc, so i truly admire what you've accomplished. And i'm genuinely excited by the prospect of a hand made quality product, but you have to expect some skepticism. A 5 yr warranty may not mean much if your personal life pulls you away, you know.

So, how many years have you been at it? Also, what steel are the shock/strut bodies made of? What's the range of dampening adjustment? Are you making ALL parts available for DIY rebuilds? If so, costs for parts? Do your pillow ball mounts for this platform offer camber adjustment? If so, how much? And finally, have you considered submitting for ISO certification? Many of your competitors (KW, Bilstien, Koni, BC Racing) are.

 

[Flatout Sus]

Wow @ $1300 you are right at the top of the cost spectrum for this platform. The only thing I've seen that is substantially more are KW V3s at almost $1,600. What advantage would a customer have by going with your brand, which to many, is unheard of? I myself day dream of opening a shop and "redesigning the wheel", etc, so i truly admire what you've accomplished. And i'm genuinely excited by the prospect of a hand made quality product, but you have to expect some skepticism. A 5 yr warranty may not mean much if your personal life pulls you away, you know.

So, how many years have you been at it? Also, what steel are the shock/strut bodies made of? What's the range of dampening adjustment? Are you making ALL parts available for DIY rebuilds? If so, costs for parts? Do your pillow ball mounts for this platform offer camber adjustment? If so, how much? And finally, have you considered submitting for ISO certification? Many of your competitors (KW, Bilstien, Koni, BC Racing) are.

$1300 is the ENTRY level. I don't even promote the 5000; the 5700 is more of what I push/ sell on street cars ($1800).

I absolutely encounter skepticism every 20 minutes. As far as personal life getting in the way; let me put it like this...I haven't had lunch in probably 3 years, and I work 9a to sometimes 1a; much to my wife's disapproval. I'm not going anywhere. Except on vacation in June; which I've earned!

I've been toying with suspensions since 2008ish on a professional level.

I get that I'm unknown and that's mostly my own doing. It's targeted. For 7 years; I did Subaru 99%. As I expanded my rally stuff, there was a need to cross into other markets; that cross made it only natural to make 'de-tuned' versions for street cars.

I have done a DIY rebuild kit, but I really like to do it because I'm thorough. I don't just rebuild the internals; I fix paint chips, clean the threads, install new collars, etc. basically a reman if you want to call it that. I want to keep them on the road forever, so I do what I can to ensure that.

Height adjustment is dependent on the variant. Camber plates are 2.8* roughly.

I have not considered ISO certification; I think that's more internationally recognized so it's not a huge priority to me. I look at it like an ASE certified tech can still be an idiot, he just has a certificate because he clicked the right buttons on a computer. ISO doesn't make a product good. Just not a huge priority right now.

 

[KKaWing]

*ahem* Motion Control Suspensions sell for significantly more... with any suspension products, the sky is the limit really. Oh even MeisterR has their GT1 (sequential flow valves, similar to Ohlin's DFV) at ~$2000

1-way 2-way 2-way remote 3-way remote
Ford Fiesta (JA8) 2009 > $2,650 $3,350 $4,400 $5,900

I figure even if Flatout sources parts then does his own valving, it's really not that different from what Fortune Auto does. It's just FA has more exposure with Time Attack while Flatout does Rally. If anyone remembers, BC did Thunderhill 24hrs with an M3 and their coils held up to that kind of abuse. BC's valving isn't "matched" but overall the hardware is decent.

 

[Flatout Sus]

*ahem* Motion Control Suspensions sell for significantly more... with any suspension products, the sky is the limit really. Oh even MeisterR has their GT1 (sequential flow valves, similar to Ohlin's DFV) at ~$2000

1-way 2-way 2-way remote 3-way remote
Ford Fiesta (JA8) 2009 > $2,650 $3,350 $4,400 $5,900

I figure even if Flatout sources parts then does his own valving, it's really not that different from what Fortune Auto does. It's just FA has more exposure with Time Attack while Flatout does Rally. If anyone remembers, BC did Thunderhill 24hrs with an M3 and their coils held up to that kind of abuse. BC's valving isn't "matched" but overall the hardware is decent.

I could be wrong and only speculate, but I think a lot of companies source components. Some may machine parts others source, but I'm willing to bet Ohlins for example doesn't make their top plates and lower mounts. They too are a shock company that makes assemblies. Like I said; I have no firm knowledge and only a guess; my business mind says it's more cost effective.

You make a good point though; each has their area of main focus, mine being rally.