Crankwalk?

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#1
Hey guys I’m at the point I really need to figure out what has happened to my ST.

Short story. I finished my build and went easy on it until break in point of changing oil at just under 1000 miles. Pulled the plug and it looks like a golden dust storm took place in the motor.

I started working on the car in late December. I replaced just about every part that a bolt-on car could have.
Thermal exhaust w/ 3 adapter
Whoosh V3 ic
Mountune radiator
Whoosh piping
TT S280 w/ turbosmart wastegate
Vibra-technics trans and motor mount
Whoosh short shift kit
Oem Hpfp cam bucket
Xtreme Di hpfp
Dizzy map sensor
Bosch uprated injectors
Turbosmart em bov
Whoosh catless dp
AP racing st200 clutch kit
Oem slave cylinder
Tuned on E50

Move to the first week of January and the car was ready to start. Drove fine, at this point I’m driving it like it’s a million dollar car. Getting the clutch mated to the flywheel and overall letting all the new parts settle and see if anything is amiss. I get to the 500 mile mark before I get my first revision of the tune uploaded. At this point I’m surprised nothing has shown up. Everything is on point and the car is driving exactly has you’d hope it would. (Let me say as I write this the car has been sitting for some time now, so I’m going off memory) it was about the 700 mile mark I began to hear a noise. Nothing crazy. And I was only able to hear it under certain circumstances. In gear, with no throttle coasting down a hill letting the rpm’s rise to between 2500-3000 I was getting a tick, almost like a injector ticks. The injectors will shut off at this point. So I ruled them out. And the xtreme hpfp has a very distinct sound. So ruled that out as well.

just over 900 miles in on the build, I decided to change the oil. And from that point, it has stopped me in my tracks. After seeing what looked like golden dust in the oil I started pulling the easiest parts that would hopefully give me insight of the issue. Valve cover, oil pan and intake. Turbo... zero play. Cam lobes, also good. Oil pan, nothing in the bottom. I did pull connecting rod caps, but that’s the only bearings I’ve checked. They checked out. Nothing with a bearing shows signs of overheating. And I feel at this point any bearing from here will escalate to other parts needing removed to gain access.

I got to the thrust bearing. And this is where I focused in. I’ve checked All-Data and tried my best to use a dial indicator. With no definitive proof of a reading I would trust.

Has anyone else come across this issue on these motors? Or am I looking in the wrong place? Could ethanol getting in make a similar colored cascade effect in the oil? Unfortunately I never snapped a shot of the oil, and I drained it in a tank of already used oil. So lab testing could been altered. Mistakes were made.

I do have a short clip I looped of what shows me pressing in and out of the clutch pedal and the effect it has on the crank.

Thanks for taking the time to read a long winded story of what looks like a long road for me.
09A3C4F3-9CEC-4ED5-971B-04C01C3EF2D9.gif
 


Last edited:
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#2
.... I'm cringing and mostly commenting to follow this thread. It isn't looking good from the picture you provided. The only thing I'd be curious is if you have any weird over travel issues going on with your clutch overloading the thrust bearings. How many miles are on this engine total?
 


OP
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Thread Starter #3
84k. It is a very early model. Manufacture date is 7/13.
 


Dialcaliper

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#4
Did you record a measurement of the free play on that dial indicator?

A typical engine (of any kind using light 20-30W motor oil) with ~50mm bearings should have ballpark between 0.0015” and 0.002” on both the journals and the thrust bearing. Total play could be 2x that if you rock it back and forth at rest. If it’s significantly more than about. Even accounting for wear and measurement error, if you’re seeing total back and forth of more than about 5-6 thou, something is wrong. If it’s within that range, it’s probably (but not definitively) okay.

Edit: my math is good for round journal bearings but thrust bearing is allowed more play as shown in a post below (8-17 thou)

Gold dust is usually metal particles dyed colors by the oil, so it could be anything - check with a magnet to rule out any steel/iron parts - check cylinder walls for wear.

Is this the first oil change after the motor was out together or did you change the oil more than once since then after the build? The very first time can have some particulates from initial wear-in.
 


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TyphoonFiST

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#5
Did you record a measurement of the free play on that dial indicator?

A typical engine (of any kind using light 20-30W motor oil) with ~50mm bearings should have ballpark between 0.0015” and 0.002” on both the journals and the thrust bearing. Total play could be 2x that if you rock it back and forth at rest. If it’s significantly more than about. Even accounting for wear and measurement error, if you’re seeing total back and forth of more than about 5-6 thou, something is wrong. If it’s within that range, it’s probably (but not definitively) okay.

Gold dust is usually metal particles dyed colors by the oil, so it could be anything - check with a magnet to rule out any steel/iron parts - check cylinder walls for wear.

Is this the first oil change after the motor was out together or did you change the oil more than once since then after the build? The very first time can have some particulates from initial wear-in.
Ill add to this Also...after Draining the break-in oil. Fill with Oil of your choice run for 250-500 miles and send a sample to Blackstone laboratories for a Oil test to see what is all in it after the new oil has been run.
 


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#6
Looking at that video you posted you are getting roughly 1/32 inch of crank walk. That is way too much, it should not be visible at all. I suggest that a complete tear down of the short block is in order. As for the cause, it's a pure guess but I would be looking at the serpentine belt tensioner and the alignment of every pulley. Internally a close look at each crank bearing and each journal bearing may provide a clue.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #7
I will have to double check my measurements. But I was getting .013-.017in on any given push with whatever 5-30 oil film is left on the bearing and parts surfaces. 938EDA5D-C633-47AC-BB53-C4A1469C1C24.jpeg
 


OP
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Thread Starter #8
Gold dust is usually metal particles dyed colors by the oil, so it could be anything - check with a magnet to rule out any steel/iron parts - check cylinder walls for wear.

Is this the first oil change after the motor was out together or did you change the oil more than once since then after the build? The very first time can have some particulates from initial wear-in.
Nothing came up with the magnet.

This was the first time dropping the oil since the install. Motor wise, the turbo and hpfp cam bucket is the only new things the oil would have come into contact with. I felt no play in the turbo and the cam bucket still looks brand new, no wear marks.


Ill add to this Also...after Draining the break-in oil. Fill with Oil of your choice run for 250-500 miles and send a sample to Blackstone laboratories for a Oil test to see what is all in it after the new oil has been run.
That’s not a bad idea if I decide to button this all back up and let it do it’s thing for a few hundred more miles. Atleast it’s the cheapest option hah. Thank you!


Looking at that video you posted you are getting roughly 1/32 inch of crank walk. That is way too much, it should not be visible at all. I suggest that a complete tear down of the short block is in order. As for the cause, it's a pure guess but I would be looking at the serpentine belt tensioner and the alignment of every pulley. Internally a close look at each crank bearing and each journal bearing may provide a clue.
I had not thought of giving the pulleys a second glance. Hmm interesting. I do agree it looks excessive tho. I’m still fighting on the idea somehow the clutch install has played a part in this.

Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts.
 


TyphoonFiST

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#9
Nothing came up with the magnet.

This was the first time dropping the oil since the install. Motor wise, the turbo and hpfp cam bucket is the only new things the oil would have come into contact with. I felt no play in the turbo and the cam bucket still looks brand new, no wear marks.




That’s not a bad idea if I decide to button this all back up and let it do it’s thing for a few hundred more miles. Atleast it’s the cheapest option hah. Thank you!




I had not thought of giving the pulleys a second glance. Hmm interesting. I do agree it looks excessive tho. I’m still fighting on the idea somehow the clutch install has played a part in this.

Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts.
What Clutch did you go with?
 


Ton

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I recently bought a 2016 FiST with 110k miles. I purchased online through videos and pictures and got what I thought was a great deal at 5369. It had a tick which after investigating online on forums etc figured it to be the fuel system or a broken spring at the worst. Boy was I wrong! It ended up being a spun shell on number 4 rod and the thrust bearing was totally galled and smashed.
 


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