e85 (e30) tune on hybrid X47 info/review/documentation thread

[jeff]

Others have reported briefly on this topic but I thought it would be fun to start a specific thread about tuning with ethanol on my X47. I'm in the beginning stages of this so more info will come in the next few weeks as I finalize tuning.

The X47 makes about 280 whp on 93 octane, others have seen 300 or more with ethanol mixes. I found a station about 20 minutes away so I've decided to get the tune made since it's way cheaper than race gas and I have lifetime tunes.

I'll do a comparo with 93 vs. RG tune vs. e30 and report Vdyno charts along with MPG differences and butt dyno as well. I'm planning to drive down to JST sometime this winter and see what it does on the dyno and at that point I can share that as well.


*****

For this first post I'll talk a bit about the preparation for this new tune. I obtained:

* two 3 gallon jugs (they're actually more like 4 gallon), since 3.2 gallons is the magic number to add on a nearly full tank, with deluxe filler hose...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F9B3F13/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
* an ethanol blend tester...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-It-ET...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
* an ethanol blend app, I tried a few different ones, bottom line is I need to add 3.2 gallons of e85 to a 10% full tank as many have said before....

There is some great info on the other E85 thread (stickied) about how to use the app and get your mix correct.

If you need them I recommend getting white jugs as it is easier to see how full they are, a friend recommended that over the color ones. I also recommend getting a tester kit with laser-engraved graphics rather than a sticker, as the sticker can come off if you spill which you will.

We all know the benefits of ethanol tuning so I won't discuss that. The thing worth discussing in my situation is quality of ethanol. I was quite surprised to find that station A (20 miles west) advertised E85 but after testing multiple times to ensure accuracy their gas was only 30% ethanol. Junk!!! Station B (18 miles east) advertised E85 and after multiple tests their gas was 80% ethanol.

Big difference!!! Make sure you test. I'd love a real gauge but it's a bit price, maybe one day.

Anyhow I'll be loading the base tune up tomorrow and getting my tune finished hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks depending on how fast I get the logs in and how fast my tuner gets me revisions. I'll keep updating as I go. Any 411 from folks with X47 and e-blends are welcome, or whatever else discussion happens.

 

[jeff]

Did some logs on the base tune this morning.

Final tune 93 octane, 10 degrees timing at 25.4 lbs of boost
Base tune e30 blend, 13.9 degrees timing at 23.9 lbs of boost
Final RGA tune, 15.3 degrees timing at 25.5 lbs of boost

More to come...car is happy on the ethanol but it feels weak as it should like a base tune. Ugh, that dreadful waiting for tune revisions is upon me once again, I forgot how this feels....

 

[Ccrew]

I forgot how this feels....

I'm X47 and working on an e30 tune and having issues like you with fuel quality. Seriously considering because of how I drive it just buying Sunoco race gas because it's consistent. Unfortunately my tuner is generally light on communication and instead of saying "crap gas" detunes the next map.

 

[jeff]

I'm X47 and working on an e30 tune and having issues like you with fuel quality. Seriously considering because of how I drive it just buying Sunoco race gas because it's consistent. Unfortunately my tuner is generally light on communication and instead of saying "crap gas" detunes the next map.

Hey thanks for chiming in, I look forward to hearing your results. I've gotten fuel twice now from the same e85 pump/station and both times it's been e80 so I'm happy with that! I got my final revision today so I'll see how it drives in the morning and try to get some good logs to post.

Keep us updated on yours I'm very curious! BTW what were your 93 logs looking like, did you dyno or Vdyno and if so how are the numbers?

 

[Quisp]

You'd think if anything ethanol content would be higher. It's cheaper than petroleum right ? Does this max out the fuel system or does tuner keep that in check?

 

[jeff]

You'd think if anything ethanol content would be higher. It's cheaper than petroleum right ? Does this max out the fuel system or does tuner keep that in check?

I agree, and for that reason it's confusing. It does max out the fuel system, in theory the tuner could play with all those variables but I'm not sure that's the case as you'll see in my next paragraph.

*****

Well I'm done with ethanol tuning, and a bit disappointed. Not sure if it's the ethanol or my tuner. I got a base tune, did some logs, and got a very mildly adjusted revision and was told that was it. I think he's so good at making an optimal OTS tune that he's sending that out and moving on to bigger and better things. In the past I got 3-6 revisions per tune, this one got only one. So I'm not sure if that is part of the disappointment, maybe the tune isn't optimized....or maybe it's just that I'm unrealistic in my expectations for ethanol especially after a race gas tune.

So I did some runs, Vdyno says 270hp/300tq which doesn't make sense because my 93 tune gets me 282hp on Vdyno. That's why I wonder if this tune is as good as it could be. In any case the car does feel smooth and quicker than on 93 but not a huge amount more. I know another X47 that is making about 300hp on e30. I know Vdyno isn't everything but I have to wonder what's going on here. From everything I'm being told the ethanol tune should be somewhere between my 93 tune and my race gas tune, but it's under both. Again it could be the Vdyno, by no means am I saying that is an objective way to measure these things. My ethanol is good quality, the air was crisp.......just not sure what's up. Maybe I'll do more runs later.

Having said all that I don't think I'll be in a hurry to spend the time/money on a real dyno for this tune since it's a bit underwhelming.

In terms of butt dyno it is quicker than 93 but not as quick as the RG tune. 93 feels quick, e30 feels quicker, RG feels outright beastly. Not gonna bother posting graphs because I don't trust them for the reasons above.

Overall I suppose this is a cheaper way to get a bit more power. MPG will suffer and I'll post some data on that after a tank or two.

 

[jmrtsus]

You'd think if anything ethanol content would be higher. It's cheaper than petroleum right ? Does this max out the fuel system or does tuner keep that in check?

Ethanol is not cheaper than gas.....it is heavily subsidised by the feds (our taxes). All the crops going to fuel rather than feed people is a shame to me but most production in the monster agri business and it is more profitable to make ethanol than feed people, so we pay hundreds of million dollar in tax money to grow corn and convert to ethanol. Dumb in my mind, petroleum is much less expensive. I drive out of my way to get non-ethanol fuel because it just plain runs better with my MP-215 car. With almost 30K miles of tracking I get a 5% boost in mileage. About 1.5 mpg increase in mileage with 93 octane non-ethanol and it feels to me like it pulls much better without corn juice. Does not pay for the extra cost in fuel savings but my fist is for performance not economy. I still get 38 mpg hwy and 33 mpg city on non 93 octane. Just damn had to find. Ford says the Fist CAN run 87........that is all 87 does for my FiST, it runs......badly! My mp-215 demands 93 octane. The worst 93 Ethanol for mileage has consistently been Chevron. I dumped my Texaco/Chevron credit card as I never use it! I am sure it has advantages in other tunes, but my car with the mp-215 loves 93 non-ethanol I am sure that was what the goal of the Mountune mp-215 based on their info was the use of 93 octane.

 

[CSM]

I agree, and for that reason it's confusing. It does max out the fuel system, in theory the tuner could play with all those variables but I'm not sure that's the case as you'll see in my next paragraph.

*****

Well I'm done with ethanol tuning, and a bit disappointed. Not sure if it's the ethanol or my tuner. I got a base tune, did some logs, and got a very mildly adjusted revision and was told that was it. I think he's so good at making an optimal OTS tune that he's sending that out and moving on to bigger and better things. In the past I got 3-6 revisions per tune, this one got only one. So I'm not sure if that is part of the disappointment, maybe the tune isn't optimized....or maybe it's just that I'm unrealistic in my expectations for ethanol especially after a race gas tune.

So I did some runs, Vdyno says 270hp/300tq which doesn't make sense because my 93 tune gets me 282hp on Vdyno. That's why I wonder if this tune is as good as it could be. In any case the car does feel smooth and quicker than on 93 but not a huge amount more. I know another X47 that is making about 300hp on e30. I know Vdyno isn't everything but I have to wonder what's going on here. From everything I'm being told the ethanol tune should be somewhere between my 93 tune and my race gas tune, but it's under both. Again it could be the Vdyno, by no means am I saying that is an objective way to measure these things. My ethanol is good quality, the air was crisp.......just not sure what's up. Maybe I'll do more runs later.

Having said all that I don't think I'll be in a hurry to spend the time/money on a real dyno for this tune since it's a bit underwhelming.

In terms of butt dyno it is quicker than 93 but not as quick as the RG tune. 93 feels quick, e30 feels quicker, RG feels outright beastly. Not gonna bother posting graphs because I don't trust them for the reasons above.

Overall I suppose this is a cheaper way to get a bit more power. MPG will suffer and I'll post some data on that after a tank or two.

Subbing because I think this is the route I want to go w/ my FiST next year.

Sorry to hear you aren't happy with how your custom E30 tune came out. Maybe we need to schedule a trip to JST to have a custom dyno tune done for you on E30? I have been considering doing this and would be interested in heading down at same time if you decide to go that route.

 

[jeff]

Subbing because I think this is the route I want to go w/ my FiST next year.

Sorry to hear you aren't happy with how your custom E30 tune came out. Maybe we need to schedule a trip to JST to have a custom dyno tune done for you on E30? I have been considering doing this and would be interested in heading down at same time if you decide to go that route.

Yeah thanks, I wonder how custom of a tune it really is, and if that's the problem. Probably just spoiled though after the race gas tune. I considered going to JST and talked to them but for $400 I can't justify it. I am considering hitting their dyno though on my race gas tune, I've made a few changes since my last dyno run and am curious where the car is at. I might do that early in the new year!!!

 

[CSM]

Yeah thanks, I wonder how custom of a tune it really is, and if that's the problem. Probably just spoiled though after the race gas tune. I considered going to JST and talked to them but for $400 I can't justify it. I am considering hitting their dyno though on my race gas tune, I've made a few changes since my last dyno run and am curious where the car is at. I might do that early in the new year!!!

I would be interested in joining if thats OK! I dyno'd the Dizzy 93 tune there and am curious what the OTS E30 tune makes.

 

[slopoke]

I agree, and for that reason it's confusing. It does max out the fuel system, in theory the tuner could play with all those variables but I'm not sure that's the case as you'll see in my next paragraph.

*****

Well I'm done with ethanol tuning, and a bit disappointed. Not sure if it's the ethanol or my tuner. I got a base tune, did some logs, and got a very mildly adjusted revision and was told that was it. I think he's so good at making an optimal OTS tune that he's sending that out and moving on to bigger and better things. In the past I got 3-6 revisions per tune, this one got only one. So I'm not sure if that is part of the disappointment, maybe the tune isn't optimized....or maybe it's just that I'm unrealistic in my expectations for ethanol especially after a race gas tune.

So I did some runs, Vdyno says 270hp/300tq which doesn't make sense because my 93 tune gets me 282hp on Vdyno. That's why I wonder if this tune is as good as it could be. In any case the car does feel smooth and quicker than on 93 but not a huge amount more. I know another X47 that is making about 300hp on e30. I know Vdyno isn't everything but I have to wonder what's going on here. From everything I'm being told the ethanol tune should be somewhere between my 93 tune and my race gas tune, but it's under both. Again it could be the Vdyno, by no means am I saying that is an objective way to measure these things. My ethanol is good quality, the air was crisp.......just not sure what's up. Maybe I'll do more runs later.

Having said all that I don't think I'll be in a hurry to spend the time/money on a real dyno for this tune since it's a bit underwhelming.

In terms of butt dyno it is quicker than 93 but not as quick as the RG tune. 93 feels quick, e30 feels quicker, RG feels outright beastly. Not gonna bother posting graphs because I don't trust them for the reasons above.

Overall I suppose this is a cheaper way to get a bit more power. MPG will suffer and I'll post some data on that after a tank or two.

I would think that you should get more than 270/300, especially when you are using 93 octane to get your E30 blend. I'm using 91 octane for my E30 and my dyno run was 282/307. Even though I'm running a Revo S242 turbo, the performance between the X47 and S242 should be similar. This was not a Vdyno number, but a run on a Dynojet dyno. I've not used Vdyno yet, so I don't know what numbers it would spit out for my data logs.

 

[jeff]

I would be interested in joining if thats OK! I dyno'd the Dizzy 93 tune there and am curious what the OTS E30 tune makes.

Sure thing you're welcome to come. I'll let you know when I get ready to schedule it. It will most likely be on a Monday though if they're open, I've got an Audi buddy who will probably make the trip with me and that's both of our day off-ish. If that works for you it would be epic to meet you and see another forum car.

I would think that you should get more than 270/300, especially when you are using 93 octane to get your E30 blend. I'm using 91 octane for my E30 and my dyno run was 282/307. Even though I'm running a Revo S242 turbo, the performance between the X47 and S242 should be similar. This was not a Vdyno number, but a run on a Dynojet dyno. I've not used Vdyno yet, so I don't know what numbers it would spit out for my data logs.

Exactly, that's why I'm meh about the whole thing. I'd be curious to know what your Vdyno numbers are but since we have different setups it won't be that relevant, but it's still interesting to know how V dyno compares to the real thing.

My race gas concentrate tune did 298/322 on the real dyno but only 292/300 on Vdyno.

 

[jeff]

Small update...

So after a week on this tune I think the car is waking up a bit...maybe the ECU needed to relearn plus with the temp changes I'm probably driving differently. Anyhow here are a few things to report:

- mpg has dropped from 30 on 93 octane consistently to 25 on e30...at this rate I'll get 300 miles to the tank as opposed to 360ish...
- in the cold (40 degrees) with cold tires 3rd gear is spinning. That never happened on 93 octane...
- boost and airflow are about what I would see with the race gas tune (99 octane) in this weather, just a tad less but comparable...see pic below...
- Cobb AP estimated HP and TQ are more like what I was expecting....I don't trust these a whole lot as Cobb themselves told me on the phone a while back that those calibrations were set up for stock turbo...however these numbers are closer to what it should be versus to the Vdyno runs I took a week ago...
- Africa by Toto was playing on the radio today so things were extra epic...
- a friend asked for some cockpit video on this tune so I'll be doing a video in the next week or so when I have time...

 

[theblue]

^ off-topic, but is that a hacked interface for sync? looks different than mine

 

[CSM]

Noob question but what is that Current Gear PID?

Also I feel your pain on E30. I have been getting 22-25mpg since switching. The power is more than worth it!

 

[jeff]

Noob question but what is that Current Gear PID?

Also I feel your pain on E30. I have been getting 22-25mpg since switching. The power is more than worth it!

Tells you what gear you're in. Surprisingly useful. When in neutral or clutch depressed it registers 15, otherwise it tells you what gear you're in.

Camera a bit shaky and rattley but here's a vid:

[video=youtube;XfkIL14LiaY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfkIL14LiaY&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Se7eN]

very nice video though