Front Brake Temps

[Siestarider]

Anyone used temperature sensitive paint/sticky strips to evaluate front brake temps while tracking? I found paint for rotors and pads, strips for calipers, but a package of this stuff is $100. I am willing to test if there are no data already gathered.

My interest is finding best pads on OEM fronts for track days, but even with ideal pads, whether the OEM caliper/rotor temps are up to threshold braking at places like hairpin at Sebring and turn 9 at PBIR. From my experience both require about 90 mph of speed scrubbed in about 200 feet for best lap times. Not that my current tires can actually do this.

The back story is Sourskittle and I were jawing about brake cooling, but on track, too much cooling is just as bad as too little, so keeping rotors/calipers in optimum temp ranges for pads is the goal.

 

[Joszer]

I have melted off a set of BP-20 Wilwood brake pads with my wilwood kit if that gives you any idea. This was at Thunderhill raceway in which I was doing hard stops from 110-115mph down to 80-75 very quickly.

They're supposedly good for 1100 degree temps, So I am sure I superseded that.

 

[Siestarider]

Yes, I read your post about the B-20 pads. My impression is they are not up to hard tracking.

With ESC off, OEM pads/rotors have worked fine for me on delta 90 mph threshold braking on BFG SC2 tires. OEM pads are available again, and I will go to stickier tires next set, so just wondering if anyone was analyzing the temperatures that kind of abuse causes. I have also tried some pads that are not even close to as good as OEM, but they provided warning, and wore out quickly, so no harm done. Just thinking about brake cooling and if anyone has collected data whether stock setup requires it. Or if going with true race compound pads on stock setup requires more cooling.

 

[XuperXero]

Rather than use those sensitive paint/sticky strips. We used those laser or infrared temperature reader. Just point and shoot, then gives temp reading. IIRC it was like $40.

Unfortunately we never used it for measure brake temp, we used it for tire temps. Needed to heat tires up to optimum range for drift competitions.

 

[Dr.Prutteklutt]

Is here anybody who has make some modifications to bring cool Air to the Frontbrake? Foglight delete or something else?!

 

[Siestarider]

I removed the fog light facias, cut out the recessed black plastic "fake inlets" leaving the ribs, attached aluminum mesh vent cover and 2" round hose leads to back sides.

And then realized the windshield washer bottle was in the way of the left side hose to front brake. Duh.

I believe I posted pics last year, maybe on exterior mods thread, computer I am on today does not have all my pic files.

I recently found OEM washer bottle with pump on Amazon about $40, so I could try cutting one up to make room for air hose. But first I am going to use some of that temp paint to see just how hot brakes actually get tracking. Should have data end of month, ordered paint and caliper strips yesterday.

 

[Joszer]

Is here anybody who has make some modifications to bring cool Air to the Frontbrake? Foglight delete or something else?!

I fitted some Porsche 993 Air vents to the lower control arms of my car. I removed the heat shields shortly after taking this photo.

 

[GAbOS]

Perfecto! Keep us updated on the upkeep of the install. Simple, stupid and functional! Love it

 

[Siestarider]

Josier posted cracked rotor with this setup. Not that a cracked rotor proves anything one way or the other. Without some idea of actual temps we are all guessing.

Got my temp paint, middle range bottle broken in shipment, bestbrakes.com very responsive to problem, now waiting for new paint. Sebring in a week, I'll post results.

 

[Siestarider]

Kudos to Bestbrakes.com, came through with new paint by UPS today, (USPS broke first shipment), so temp paint brakes experiment is on for Saturday.

 

[Siestarider]

Front and rear caliper paints, blue 750 F, tan 1000 F, gray 1250 F

Post Sebring, fronts. Right front appears to have run hotter than left, maybe because track is clockwise, maybe because hairpin is a right hand entry with long right exit under full power, if nannies intervened to make brake temps higher, this would be the place. Need more information.

Rears did not hit 750F either side.

Front calipers matched temps, Rears calipers did not exceed minimum temp. I am hating windows 10 already.

Next test strips right over pistons, maybe get closer to actual brake fluid temps.

 

[Joszer]

Front and rear caliper paints, blue 750 F, tan 1000 F, gray 1250 F

Post Sebring, fronts. Right front appears to have run hotter than left, maybe because track is clockwise, maybe because hairpin is a right hand entry with long right exit under full power, if nannies intervened to make brake temps higher, this would be the place. Need more information.

Rears did not hit 750F either side.

Pre and post brake caliper temp strips. Yeah, I should have put one right over the piston, thats where they are now for next track day.

Photos aren't working bud. Thanks for collecting this information though. Really helps!

 

[the duke]

Rather than use those sensitive paint/sticky strips. We used those laser or infrared temperature reader. Just point and shoot, then gives temp reading. IIRC it was like $40.

Unfortunately we never used it for measure brake temp, we used it for tire temps. Needed to heat tires up to optimum range for drift competitions.

My only concern with that method is you won't get max temperature threashold since you have a cool down lap or two before the car comes in for a reading. You're missing peak temperature by performing a measurement after the fact. Still valuable data though.

 

[Sourskittle]

Also, just a side note for others, and for what ever its worth, this car has an LSD in it, which means its not using the brakes as an E-diff almost at all, if any. So the brakes will naturally be a little cooler. Who would have thought that someday we'd be thinking of an LSD as a way to keep the brakes cooler, lol

 

[Siestarider]

Also, just a side note for others, and for what ever its worth, this car has an LSD in it, which means its not using the brakes as an E-diff almost at all, if any. So the brakes will naturally be a little cooler. Who would have thought that someday we'd be thinking of an LSD as a way to keep the brakes cooler, lol

Back to what started this experiment, I opened up the fog light facias for brake cooling and realized washer bottle blocked drivers side, so right side has duct connection, left side leads to Mountune air box lower intake. Pics from inside nose while I had it off for repairs Sunday.

It seems reasonable to conclude that right side vent does not appreciably cool front brake at track without a hose directing air into hub. Left side likely does not do anything for left front brake, and I cannot tell that intake temps are any lower with or without this mod, intercooler has too big an effect in CAT vs outside air vs extra air source w/Mountune box.

But I still like the open screened and functional-looking vents even if they do not accomplish much so far, they look cool from outside.

 

[Siestarider]

Update from PBIR 9/5. Similar weather as Sebring. Hot, high 80's.

Off with Hawks, on with OEM front pads. Front discs hit 1000 F inside face and below 1000F outside face, both sides. Rears all below 750F.

Front calipers hit over 250F and under 290 F both sides, stickers right over pistons.

Obviously different track, but max braking actually a little more at PBIR turn 9 than hairpin at Sebring, Harry's LT shows delta 70 mph vs 65 mph at my best pace.

Only mod is pad change. OEM pads run a little cooler than the Hawks? That is what these data indicate. They wear better and stop better, no fade.

I am still on BFG S-Comp2, stickier tires should present greater heat. 10,000 street miles and 7 track days, still plenty of tread.










pbo

 

[Joszer]

Update from PBIR 9/5. Similar weather as Sebring. Hot, high 80's.

Off with Hawks, on with OEM front pads. Front discs hit 1000 F inside face and below 1000F outside face, both sides. Rears all below 750F.

Front calipers hit over 250F and under 290 F both sides, stickers right over pistons.

Obviously different track, but max braking actually a little more at PBIR turn 9 than hairpin at Sebring, Harry's LT shows delta 70 mph vs 65 mph at my best pace.

Only mod is pad change. OEM pads run a little cooler than the Hawks? That is what these data indicate. They wear better and stop better, no fade.

I am still on BFG S-Comp2, stickier tires should present greater heat. 10,000 street miles and 7 track days, still plenty of tread.










pbo

thanks for the info, I actually just got myself some Comp-2 tires off ebay via Discount tire direct for $350 shipped. I am gonna slap those on as soon as my Star Specs go bald.

Have you tried the porsche 993 brake scoops? I installed them on my fiesta and I noticed a difference. Brake feel stayed a lot more consistent after I installed them whereas before my pedal would get somewhat spongy towards the end of my 25 minute sessions at thunderhill raceway. The real test is when I head over to Laguna Seca this November, last time I was there I absolutely pounded on my brakes.

 

[Siestarider]

thanks for the info, I actually just got myself some Comp-2 tires off ebay via Discount tire direct for $350 shipped. I am gonna slap those on as soon as my Star Specs go bald.

Have you tried the porsche 993 brake scoops? I installed them on my fiesta and I noticed a difference. Brake feel stayed a lot more consistent after I installed them whereas before my pedal would get somewhat spongy towards the end of my 25 minute sessions at thunderhill raceway. The real test is when I head over to Laguna Seca this November, last time I was there I absolutely pounded on my brakes.

I have been following all the brake cooling ideas I can find. 993 scoops look good, but I have not lowered yet, and I see a good splitter or better air dam in my future, which might conflict with 993 approach. May cut the bottom off my WW fluid bottle and run ducts from my facia vents, (right side already for hose), try removing dust covers, Mishimoto brake research looks interesting, lots of options.

I am still learning a lot tracking, OEM pads still adequate with my tires, until I hit a brake limit and have to change them to be quicker, my money goes for seat time first.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Great thread, thanks for all the good info and others adding in

My needs are a bit different but some good ideas here to consider, I run on 225 race tires, more power, DIY front and rear BBKs...

I removed the washer bottle and was going to install a small one in the back with the little battery I installed, pretty easy to tap into the line for the rear wiper but would lose the use of the rear washer. Then run a control wire back to it off the front washer switch. I bought some parts express 3" port tubes that fit in the fog light mounts to use 3" brake hose with.

When I installed the TRS splitter with full undertray I realized it created a duct below the IC grill that curved back towards the tires on each side so I decided to seal it up better and use it instead and put fog lights back in(LED Mirimoto

Even with a partial undertray you would still have the duct to use for brake cooling, no need to mod or move the washer bottle or cut into the trim around the fog lights and the air there gets used for something besides causing a bit of drag.

Between two different turbo builds, parting out two race cars, selling a third, getting our house and shop ready to move, huge move, downsized to RV, family issues out of town, I have only tracked the car once and now taking it apart for the 3rd turbo change....I might get to finally finish the ducts and hit the track in a month or so, a whole year since the last time!