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RF and LR Brakes locked up

OP
txFiST
Messages
7
Likes
3
Location
McCoy
Thread Starter #21
I’m back, sorry I disappeared. I got a pretty wicked case of COVID with pneumonia. Knocked me out for a while. Goooood news everyone. I ordered a used ABS unit from EBay and swapped the electronics over. I completely reverse bled the system. Then I pressure bled the system and buddy bled the system. It works amazing! The Wilwood kit from Whoosh is freaking sweet! So my love/hate relationship continues.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 


Messages
3
Likes
5
Location
Michigan
#22
Same problem...

MY14 FiST, 210k miles, no collisions, daily driver.

Over the course of a few months, I noticed occasional and minor brake drag, especially when the car was cold.

Eventually, the RF and LR brake would not release after pressing the pedal. Even after a very light brake apply.
I noticed that if I opened a bleed screw at the Left Rear caliper, a sudden pulse of fluid would be relieved, and then both corners became free again. (So, there was residual hydraulic pressure that wasn't being relieved by the system.) Caliper pins and pad guides were in good condition.

The opposite corners LF and RR were always working normally.
The brake pedal returned properly. Lifting the pedal had no effect.

Replaced the master cylinder; didn't help.
Booster looked immaculate inside.

Removed the ABS unit and tested it with compressed air at just 25psi. It was obvious that a blockage was present for a pair of the hydraulic outputs. They did not flow air to and from the master cylinder inputs the same as the other ports do. Removal process was straightforward after disconnecting the plastic intake pipe to gain access.

New ABS assembly is $550; searched ebay and found numerous junkyard pulls available, got one for $100 from a 2017 car with 30k miles. I unbolted and re-used my original ABS ECU, attached to the newer hydraulic manifold. Bled all corners.
Problem solved.

It would have been a nightmare for a dealer to diagnose over multiple visits. Too easy to talk a customer into unnecessary replacement of calipers and flex lines instead of taking the time to understand the hydraulic problem... glad to have fixed this one at home.

My conclusions:
  • If two corners are stuck, open a bleed screw on one to relieve pressure. If the other corner frees up as a result, it rules out everything near the wheel (caliper, lines, etc).
  • If the problem isn't severe, it will be almost impossible to diagnose confidently. Replacing major components without confidence... isn't great. Consider driving longer to let it get worse and easier to diagnose.
  • If it's a 2014-2019 Fiesta and presents the same symptoms, leave the MC alone and swap the ABS manifold first.
Cheers
keywords: brake stuck on drag dragging
 


bryan0468

New Member
Messages
2
Likes
2
Location
Lexington Park
#23
I am having the same issue, thanks for posting this information. I believe this will fix my problem. Dealership wanted 2K just to replace the brake hoses and calipers. Something I had already troubleshot very frustrating.
 


the duke

Senior Member
Messages
935
Likes
888
Location
Cleveland
#24
If it's not the slide pins or the pump, I've been having issues with the pivot bracket at the caliper for the Handbrake.
 


Intuit

3000 Post Club
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3,662
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2,263
Location
South West Ohio
#25
Last edited:
Messages
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520
Location
Metro Detroit
#26
The diagonal nature of this failure is probably a safety feature. Prior to ABS master cylinders were connected to the brakes diagonally so that if a brake line failed you would still have working brakes on opposite corners of the car. When I first read this thread I kept looking to see if the master cylinder had been replaced because that is where I would have gone first. Apparently Ford has moved the diagonal to the ABS system, probably because that is where the brake lines from each caliper is terminated. Note that is an assumption and may be incorrect so feel free to correct me because I'm old enough that I don't crawl under a car anymore. What it means going forward is that if brake fail in a diagonal manner the first thing that should be done is to check for fluid leaks at every caliper and if no leaks then replace the ABS unit.
 


M-Sport fan

9000 Post Club
Messages
14,122
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6,762
Location
Princeton, N.J.
#27
Manual specifies low-viscosity brake fluid. As far as I can tell it's thinner than the traditional stuff..
A thinner fluid might be more resistant to cavitation when the ABS pumps activate.
View attachment 53067
This is why I want to stick with a DOT 4 LV fluid, albeit the very best, with the highest boiling points, of that type.

I do not open track, or autocross my car, so I do not need the 650*F DRY boiling point, DOT 4 RACING fluids at all.

The top tier DOT 4 LV I am going to use has a WET boiling point not much below all of those (even the best) DOT 4 RACING fluids, which is much more important for the street, and the longevity of the fluid if one is not going to be bleeding the system, or totally flushing it out every week.
 


Messages
3
Likes
5
Location
Michigan
#28
searched ebay and found numerous junkyard pulls available, got one for $100 from a 2017 car with 30k miles.
FYI I also discovered how to make the 2017 ABS ECU work in my 2014 FiST... using a beta build of FORScan to write the VIN bytes of the ASBUILT data.
(Unfortunately the standard release FORScan V2.3 cannot do it...)
 


bryan0468

New Member
Messages
2
Likes
2
Location
Lexington Park
#29
Same problem...

MY14 FiST, 210k miles, no collisions, daily driver.

Over the course of a few months, I noticed occasional and minor brake drag, especially when the car was cold.

Eventually, the RF and LR brake would not release after pressing the pedal. Even after a very light brake apply.
I noticed that if I opened a bleed screw at the Left Rear caliper, a sudden pulse of fluid would be relieved, and then both corners became free again. (So, there was residual hydraulic pressure that wasn't being relieved by the system.) Caliper pins and pad guides were in good condition.

The opposite corners LF and RR were always working normally.
The brake pedal returned properly. Lifting the pedal had no effect.

Replaced the master cylinder; didn't help.
Booster looked immaculate inside.

Removed the ABS unit and tested it with compressed air at just 25psi. It was obvious that a blockage was present for a pair of the hydraulic outputs. They did not flow air to and from the master cylinder inputs the same as the other ports do. Removal process was straightforward after disconnecting the plastic intake pipe to gain access.

New ABS assembly is $550; searched ebay and found numerous junkyard pulls available, got one for $100 from a 2017 car with 30k miles. I unbolted and re-used my original ABS ECU, attached to the newer hydraulic manifold. Bled all corners.
Problem solved.

It would have been a nightmare for a dealer to diagnose over multiple visits. Too easy to talk a customer into unnecessary replacement of calipers and flex lines instead of taking the time to understand the hydraulic problem... glad to have fixed this one at home.

My conclusions:
  • If two corners are stuck, open a bleed screw on one to relieve pressure. If the other corner frees up as a result, it rules out everything near the wheel (caliper, lines, etc).
  • If the problem isn't severe, it will be almost impossible to diagnose confidently. Replacing major components without confidence... isn't great. Consider driving longer to let it get worse and easier to diagnose.
  • If it's a 2014-2019 Fiesta and presents the same symptoms, leave the MC alone and swap the ABS manifold first.
Cheers
keywords: brake stuck on drag dragging
Thanks again for this information. I purchased a used ABS assembly from eBay and it fixed the problem.
 


Messages
8
Likes
6
Location
Nashville
#30
I had this issue, except for me it was FL and RR. Still opposite corners. Pretty sure that on my very first brake job, I messed up two things. 1: I just pushed the pistons back slowly in the front (and screwed in the rears) without using the bleeders to relieve the pressure. 2: I also topped off the brake fluid with some DOT4 fluid, about 20mL. This was the only non-LV fluid, added to the old stuff already in there. But I know I cleaned and lubed everything up real good.

Now, several years and one correct brake pad + rotor job later, I was having my front left and rear right wheels dragging, front left more than rear right. I could workaround by reversing, and then braking, and it would be fine for a few days. But one day, it got so hot that I started smelling it, so I decided it was time to find and fix the issue.

Attempt 1:
tear down, clean and relube all slide pins (3M silicone paste), clean and copper paste the abutments (maybe wrong word. The parts of the caliper that the pad ears touch. Let's not debate on whether or not to even do this). All pin grease was still immaculate save for one which had turned slightly grey, and the pins felt and looked fine. Actually looked better than the new-in-bag replacement pins I had on hand. No change in symptoms.

Attempt 2:
I heard that sometimes old hoses can act like one-way valves. Didn't quite explain why reversing and braking was a workaround, but nearing 100k, maybe that's too old for hoses. Replaced FL and RR hoses. Issue much worse. Every time I press brake pedal, with car off even, the FL and RR wheels lock up; both wheels release if I open either FL or RR bleeder. (Oh no, ABS is the next thing upstream!). Gravity bled several times, but no change in this new form of symptoms.

Further troubleshooting:
ABS looks expensive to replace. But to make sure that I'm not imagining things, I tested several times to make sure that both FL and RR wheels were affected the same. I locked them up and released the RR bleeder, and the FL wheel was able to rotate. I did the same thing but released the FL bleeder, and the RR wheel was able to rotate. Alas, this truely does seem like something faulty in ABS module.
I got Forscan and found no ABS module codes. Good....? Why is it acting up, then? But I did look and see what service procedures Forscan was able to surface to me from the ABS module, and found some calibrations, but also a Service Bleed function! My understanding is that this function uses the ABS pump to help you bleed brakes when you service a downstream part of the brake system. If the fix is to replace the ABS valve body, then might as well see if just sending fluid through it will jiggle something loose or something.

Attempt 3:
I attached bleeder bottle to the RR caliper and ran the ABS module service bleed procedure. It asked me what part I replaced and I told it the hose. It told me to open the bleeders and not touch the brake pedal while it's doing its thing. I obliged, then clicked OK, and the pump pumped fluid out from the RR caliper. Then I closed the bleeder and waited 45s, for whatever reason. I had filled the reservoir up to the brim, and it emptied out half of it (half of that tiny secondary reservoir; the main one attached to the MC still full).
I did the same with the FL, following the on-screen instructions.
And things are much much improved! After a long drive, the FL and RR wheels are barely warmer than the other two (by feel, no thermometer). It could even just be my imagination, that's how close in temperature they are!

Future:
Next time it's nicer out, I plan on bleeding a ton of fluid out, now that I have a nice large fresh bottle of dot4LV. I figure if dot4 is mucking up the ABS, that means it's already made its way that far, and might as well use the right fluid to flush out as much as I can from the MC and ABS pump. I don't think the calipers would care dot4 vs LV. If this was caused by damage from my first brake job, it is what it is, and I'll pay the piper later if the ABS pump goes out completely. I have forscan, so I can just get a used and reprogram it to match my car. If this was caused by that bit of DOT4, hopefully it'll be all flushed out soon. I did notice that my RR caliper is Lucas brand, so the previous owner must have had some brake issues too, but that maybe was the common seized pins issue.
 


Intuit

3000 Post Club
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Location
South West Ohio
#31
Two other details.

1) Same as directional tires have an 'inside' and 'outside', your pads may have an 'inside' and an 'outside'. Make sure you pay attention when removing and reinstalling your pads.
1701835366058.jpeg

2) Make sure your caliper slide mounts aren't locking. You may be able to move them during inspection, but they may seize, heating up during use.
Here are instructions for honing out your slide-mounts...
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/caliper-slide-mounts-the-permanent-fix.29023/



.
 


Messages
8
Likes
6
Location
Nashville
#33
Which model year FiST? And after how many miles?
thx
Your post specifically helped me form my troubleshooting plan for this particular problem, so first, thanks for signing up and sharing your experience! It made me want to share mine too :)

Mine's a 2014, at about 95k miles. I got it used at ~40k miles

This post is a gold mine as well! I was going to comment about how the rear pistons have slots, one of which should line up with the locator pin on the inside pad, but you covered that in your post too. I think you helped me in another thread to find the torque recommendations for the brake hoses. One comment that sticks out is your comment about packing with grease. I remember my first brake job (different car) taking forever. I couldn't get it assembled again because I read "you can't use too much paste here" and overdid it.

Thanks everyone!
 


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