Turbo time within ~2 months. Big vs hybrid, need opinions/experiences

[MRX330]

I’ll race any hybrid Edit: in Mnexico or Amurico

Plus the powerband is waaaaay better than having all the torque down low and I still have tons of power down low with no lag

 

[EnthusiaST]

Plus the powerband is waaaaay better than having all the torque down low and I still have tons of power down low with no lag

I personally find having all the tq down low one of the things I enjoyed about the fist the most. Not when you’re racing or driving 9/10 and above but how fun it is when you’re just commuting around town with the accessible, tire spinning, wheel turning tq that makes it more of a joy to drive at legal speeds. It’s the same reason I drive an ND instead of an 86. More fun for 95% of my driving.

Disclaimer: I’ve driven big turbo cars but still haven’t driven a big turbo fist.


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[shouldbeasy]

I only have accessport numbers I've only installed the one hybrid turbo after I bought the car. My assessment of the turbo's performance is based largely on speaking with my tuner and resaearch I've done about the aftermarket hybrid's available

Sorry! Mixed you up with eGlove (I think that's his username)....

Open your data log in Virtual Dyno and see what it looks like! You'll have to set up your cars profile but it's sure handy!

 

[MRX330]

I personally find having all the tq down low one of the things I enjoyed about the fist the most. Not when you’re racing or driving 9/10 and above but how fun it is when you’re just commuting around town with the accessible, tire spinning, wheel turning tq that makes it more of a joy to drive at legal speeds. It’s the same reason I drive an ND instead of an 86. More fun for 95% of my driving.

Disclaimer: I’ve driven big turbo cars but still haven’t driven a big turbo fist.


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I don’t know how to convey how my car feels besides awesome everywhere all the time. I miss the stock turbo like an ingrown toenail.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Plus the powerband is waaaaay better than having all the torque down low and I still have tons of power down low with no lag

My X-47R pulls almost linearly all the way to the cutout. There's a little more lag than with the stock turbo (no more "wwwweeeep" and 24 PSI) but I can roll into the throttle on an exit at 3K and it feels like I have full boost by the time I'm at full throttle (should datalog to see), so I only notice the increase lag on the street. There's a surprisingly little amount of lag with the stock turbo; anything larger lags noticeably more.

I'm going to check with Dizzy at the end of my E30 tune to see how much more he'll find with aux. fuel but I doubt it'll be much. I might do a 4-port anyways just to prep. for a BT. The only way a BT makes sense is if you're going to go w/ aux. fuel.

So, in terms of bang/buck:

- hybrid w/o aux. fuel: $, linear torque curve, little more power throughout, little more lag <- Sweet spot w/o aux. fuel
- hybrid w/ aux. fuel: $$$, linear torque curve that extends a bit further than w/o aux. fuel, little more power throughout, little more lag
- BT w/o aux. fuel, stock manifold: $$ torque curve moves up, little more power up high, more lag
- BT w/ aux. fuel, stock manifold: $$$$ torque curve moves up, more power up high, more lag
- BT w/ aux. fuel, tubular manifold: $$$$$ torque curve moves up, lots more power up high, more lag but less than with stock manifold <- Sweet spot w/ aux. fuel

 

[MRX330]

My X-47R pulls almost linearly all the way to the cutout. There's a little more lag than with the stock turbo (no more "wwwweeeep" and 24 PSI) but I can roll into the throttle on an exit at 3K and it feels like I have full boost by the time I'm at full throttle (should datalog to see), so I only notice the increase lag on the street. There's a surprisingly little amount of lag with the stock turbo; anything larger lags noticeably more.

I'm going to check with Dizzy at the end of my E30 tune to see how much more he'll find with aux. fuel but I doubt it'll be much. I might do a 4-port anyways just to prep. for a BT. The only way a BT makes sense is if you're going to go w/ aux. fuel.

So, in terms of bang/buck:

- hybrid w/o aux. fuel: $, linear torque curve, little more power throughout, little more lag <- Sweet spot w/o aux. fuel
- hybrid w/ aux. fuel: $$$, linear torque curve that extends a bit further than w/o aux. fuel, little more power throughout, little more lag
- BT w/o aux. fuel, stock manifold: $$ torque curve moves up, little more power up high, more lag
- BT w/ aux. fuel, stock manifold: $$$$ torque curve moves up, more power up high, more lag
- BT w/ aux. fuel, tubular manifold: $$$$$ torque curve moves up, lots more power up high, more lag but less than with stock manifold <- Sweet spot w/ aux. fuel

I don’t know why you quoted me. I have the ported stock manifold that’s Cerakoted. I think it’s a little misleading to say B/T when there are performance variations between the big turbos available.

 

[shouldbeasy]

I don’t know why you quoted me. I have the ported stock manifold that’s Cerakoted. I think it’s a little misleading to say B/T when there are performance variations between the big turbos available.

Ya, he should have said 'Turbos with significant lag'.


HA! I kid.

 

[MRX330]

Ya, he should have said 'Turbos with significant lag'.


HA! I kid.

I don’t get the joke. Please elaborate. Btw move cocktail hour up to at least 4pm 🍹

 

[jeff]

Late to this party...

In my opinion, big turbo or hybrid is the wrong question. The questions you should be asking are (1) what do you want the power curve/drivability to look like and (2) how much money do you want to spend?

Get a HYBRID if you want stock spool with power all the way almost to red line. In terms of drivability you would probably be more likely to floor it early and less likely to wind it out to redline. Go this route if you want to spend maybe $2-3 thousand on the starter setup to get most of the gains out of your set up.

Get a BIG TURBO if you want your power curve shifted to the right, later spool but power maintained later also. It’s all about drivability. If you’re somebody that is constantly redlining your car this would be a good option because you need to do that in order to get the most out of it. If you don’t, you are shortchanging yourself. Going this route you’re going to spend maybe $3-5 thousand on the starter setup to get most of the gains out of it.

In terms of reliability, sure there are failures with both options. I would suggest however that you’ll get maximum power out of the big turbo, and if you do that you’re going to have to start thinking about spending more money on other things you would not have to upgrade with hybrid numbers. Something to think about if you have that endless quest for the most power in your blood. Getting a hybrid keeps you less likely to blow your car up assuming your tune and installation/supporting hardware are done correctly because there’s less stuff you will need to upgrade along the way. Less parts to buy.

Both are great options. To me it’s all about what you want the personality of the car to be like and how much money you’re willing to spend.

I went hybrid because I like the personality of this car having immediate torque anywhere. But my last serious build was an Subaru Forester XT and I swapped out the TD04, which gave similar personality to the fiesta ST, for a VF39 turbo which gave it tons more power but also lengthened spool time. For that car it was a good trade off with all-wheel-drive and bigger weight and feel of the car.

I’ll add that both cars had/have right around 300 wheel horsepower. They feel very different and were/are both fun but in very different ways.

 

[MRX330]

You should compile all your small books on here into one big book 👍

 

[OneFord]

This is my first performance vehicle that wasn't naturally aspirated so my experience is extremely limited in that realm.

All I can say is I'm happy with my current build however, all I'm comparing it to is NA LS1 builds I did in the past. I could see the allure of a BT though but since this is my DD I prefer the hybrid for drive-ability and hopefully reliability.

 

[jeff]

You should compile all your small books on here into one big book 👍

Ha ha thanks man I hope my rambling is helpful. I don't know enough about cars to write a decent book but hey shameless self promotion I did publish a book a few months ago!!!

https://www.amazon.com/Decisions-Ev...&s=gateway&sprefix=8+decisions,aps,250&sr=8-1

 

[JDG]

Funny, in my opinion, I think that the Garrett turbo option is significantly more reliable in respect to the turbo and the engine of the Fiesta. Garrett is a reputable manufacturer that builds these in a manufacturing process with excellent quality control. The failure rates of these turbos are very low and I have yet to see a failure in the EcoBoost world for a Garrett turbo. All of the hybrids have had failures of the turbo itself and not only that, cause the EGT's to run too hot (hotter than Ford intended) in many applications. Pumaspeed, Revo, whoosh, SourSkittle, Vargas, etc. have all had hybrid turbo failures in the EcoBoost world and outside of it (for those manufacturers who remanufacture turbos for other applications). Not only that, but increasing low end torque versus moving it into the mid-range increases chances for engine failure.

Again, all my opinion, but just another perspective to add food for thought. Please keep in mind my bias, as my first turbo upgrade was the Revo RT330 which turned out to be a complete dud with design flaws. From that process, I have learned a great deal from a number of manufacturers who have been building turbos for a long time.

I still think this post of mine is so relevant. I have heard of some failures in the last few months of a variety of brands of hybrid turbos and it has become clear that this stuff gets swept under the rug so the overarching community doesn't see it. When you make the decision to purchase a hybrid over a Garrett unit, you need to be considering these risks.

 

[koozy]

Truth.


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[MRX330]

Ha ha thanks man I hope my rambling is helpful. I don't know enough about cars to write a decent book but hey shameless self promotion I did publish a book a few months ago!!!

https://www.amazon.com/Decisions-Every-Man-Should-Make/dp/1790402204/ref=sr_1_1?crid=GB6HI9BBEBDG&keywords=8+decisions+every+man+should+make+jeff+miller&qid=1565280432&s=gateway&sprefix=8+decisions,aps,250&sr=8-1

I know I was kidding. Try to be more concise

 

[jeff]

I know I was kidding. Try to be more concise

Meh, some people really appreciate my attention to detail.

 

[Bretley]

I'm not knocking any turbo you choose, but I can say that my MRX has about 50k on it now and still performs flawlessly. I think no matter what you choose, you will enjoy it much more than the little turbo our cars come with.

 

[KnockOff]

This thread speaks of a whoosh hybrid failure? I have not heard of it. What happened?

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[MRX330]

Meh, some people really appreciate my attention to detail.

It’s verbose imo

 

[jeff]

It’s verbose imo

Use the block jeff feature, others have in the past!!!