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Unimpressed with Pierce 6 points brace quality

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#1
I ordered the 6 points brace during black friday and received it last week. I just unpacked it and I'm really disappointed by the overall quality. The welds are horrendous, some with globs, other with porosities. A well calibrated MIG and a good welder should not make this kind of welds. That would not be that big of a deal in itself if it was the only issue. But there's also a 3/8" gap difference between the left and right sides mounting "cups". I'm not sure how that will affect installation and handling of the car in itself and since my car is stored for winter, I won't know until may. Bummer.
Anybody else got these issues? I worked 10 years as a tig welder fabricating medical equipment with a usual tolerance of 1/32" so I'm really let down by this, considering the price they ask for.

IMG-1473.JPG IMG-1474.JPG

IMG-1475.JPG IMG-1476.JPG IMG-1477.JPG
 


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Dpro

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#2
I pointed out the weld quality of a Pierce two point a few years back, As did Koozy a few years before I did. I have read about people saying the six point did not just bolt right up but had to be coaxed . The Pierce fans will come out against anything like this you post. I would not take a six point with dimensions off like you are showing here. I also looked at TB and found some of his design choices scratching my head. Because of all of this I have been hard pressed to apply any kind of brace to my car. I want the Summit S/Wave stuff . Thats going to be pricey and imported. I will most likely just bite the bullet though and do it in the next week or so. I have procrastinated for awhile. Partly cause lockdown. Time to do it I think.
 


Ford ST

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#3
I have two products from them I'm not going to defend them because I know absolutely nothing about welding at all.



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#4
The welds are horrendous, some with globs, other with porosities.
As someone who can tig, those welds are terrible...what we call pigeon shit. And dimensionally...crap. I am guessing you paid $350-$400 for it? Send it back. There must be other, higher-quality options.
 


OP
Alkoran
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Thread Starter #5
As someone who can tig, those welds are terrible...what we call pigeon shit. And dimensionally...crap. I am guessing you paid $350-$400 for it? Send it back. There must be other, higher-quality options.
Thanks, didn't know the english term for it. I understand mig welds never look as good as tig ones, but damn, this looks like an apprentice welded it. I don't know if chromoly is that much harder to weld than mild steell, but still, that's not an excuse. And the gap is even worst.

I paid 358 USD including the shipping to Canada and then I had to pay 73$ CAD on top of it for duties and taxes.
 


OP
Alkoran
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Thread Starter #6
I have two products from them I'm not going to defend them because I know absolutely nothing about welding at all.



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Even if you know nothing about welding, you can tell the gap is not normal. Using a jig, that sort of discrepancy should not be possible. And even then, let's say because you heated the metal too much and it deformed the original measurements once you took off the piece from the jig, you're supposed to check back all your measurement and straighten them back before sending it to powder coating.
 


Sekred

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#7
At least you got the correct brace. These guys sent me a 4 point brace for a Hyundai Veloster because it looks similar to the brace for a ST and because I live in Australia I was basically on my own as far as doing anything about the stuff-up.
 


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#8
Ya the welds don't look too good. The weld bead buildup is too high, so penetration is bad. As for the porosity, that shows a lack of concern for the aesthetics by whoever did it as they could have easily just zapped over it to cover it up.
 


OP
Alkoran
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Thread Starter #9
At least you got the correct brace. These guys sent me a 4 point brace for a Hyundai Veloster because it looks similar to the brace for a ST and because I live in Australia I was basically on my own as far as doing anything about the stuff-up.
Yeah, if we can't come to an agreement to settle this, I'll be in the same boat as you. I'll probably try a claim with my credit card company.
 


M-Sport fan

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I pointed out the weld quality of a Pierce two point a few years back, As did Koozy a few years before I did. I have read about people saying the six point did not just bolt right up but had to be coaxed . The Pierce fans will come out against anything like this you post. I would not take a six point with dimensions off like you are showing here. I also looked at TB and found some of his design choices scratching my head. Because of all of this I have been hard pressed to apply any kind of brace to my car. I want the Summit S/Wave stuff . Thats going to be pricey and imported. I will most likely just bite the bullet though and do it in the next week or so. I have procrastinated for awhile. Partly cause lockdown. Time to do it I think.
Even though they are BIG$$$$$, I really wish that Ron could get the Swave/Summit stuff for our rides.

I've NEVER been a fan of the way too dropped, 'cup ended' mounting points myself, yes, even though a few of the Swave/Summit items must use that design by necessity. [wink]
 


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Design of Summit reminds me a lot of the TB braces, esp the front 4 pt traction brace. What would be the advantage of the summit stuff?
 


M-Sport fan

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Look, I'm (along with RAAMaudio and BRGT350<-who is an actual chassis/suspension engineer) not a big fan of ANY bracing at all unless it is a fully tied-in/triangulated cage setup. [wink]

Of course there are those (like 99.999%) on here who SWEAR by theses things, and 'butt dyno' claim that they do actually serve a function (I've never seen, nor even heard of anyone ever trying to PROVE their effectiveness with any strain gauges, or other flex measuring devices, one way or another [nono]).

But, IF I were ever to get any, against my better judgement, I would have to go with whatever gave me the MOST clearance, with the LEAST drop down into that ground clearance possible, at least for the under unibody items.
 


jeff

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#13
Yeah those welds are awful. Sorry to hear that happened. Like most things it's probably hit or miss. I have exact same brace and it looked great and went on the car in about 30 minutes using 3 jack stands, no cinching, just fit right on. That was a few years ago though. I'm not defending Pierce, that is their product and it looks bad. But it's probably hit or miss.

Hopefully it installs OK. This I promise you, it will be worth it, pretty welds or not. The 6 point brace transforms this car. You will be happy. You're 75% there having bought it and having it delivered, just get it installed and you'll be happy. And take my advice, put the car on 4 jack stands, get all 6 started, then tighten. Hoping you have a smooth experience!!!
 


Dpro

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#14
Design of Summit reminds me a lot of the TB braces, esp the front 4 pt traction brace. What would be the advantage of the summit stuff?
The difference is the Summit has a bit lower profile and it does not have what I feel think are useless the v angled bars in the center. I also like the Summit due to the fact that is forged triple tube aluminum oval. l
 


PunkST

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#15
Whoever welded that cant tune a machine for shit.
Its more than likely mig welded, and done poorly.
Being a career welder. That just irks me when someone doesnt take pride in their work.

I can tell by that twist they either pulled it out of the fixture too soon, or dropped it before paint and it tweaked. If you use it. It may be a bit of a bear to fit up. But once its tight it shouldn't affect it negatively. The bolts will suck it tight to the car. Not exactly ideal but it can work.

I went from a pierce 6 point to the cheapo DNA 2 point and batwing for clearance. And the dna has better weld on it.
 


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Dpro

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Whoever welded that cant tune a machine for shit.
Its more than likely mig welded, and done poorly.
Being a career welder. That just irks me when someone doesnt take pride in their work.

I can tell by that twist they either pulled it out of the fixture too soon, or dropped it before paint and it tweaked. If you use it. It may be a bit of a bear to fit up. But once its tight it shouldn't affect it negatively. The bolts will suck it tight to the car. Not exactly ideal but it can work.

I went from a pierce 6 point to the cheapo DNA 2 point and batwing for clearance. And the dna has better weld on it.
that DNA Batwing looks like it would do nothing cause it appears to be flat sheetmetal whats your impression of it.
 


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#17
Look, I'm (along with RAAMaudio and BRGT350<-who is an actual chassis/suspension engineer) not a big fan of ANY bracing at all unless it is a fully tied-in/triangulated cage setup...
Are we talking about just the Fiesta? Because us Foxbody/SN95 owners would certainly disagree with those general statements!
Is there a particular thread where this topic was discussed in detail? I’d like to read up their opinions and if conditions (e.g. street vs track use) change their viewpoint.
 


Ford ST

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Neither of them post anymore.

Look I'm going to say this and if it offends anybody oh well. I don't care if you are an engineer or whatever there are plenty of people in professions that are simply wrong and incorrect. If you don't believe me listen to the doctor death podcast there's two seasons. Yeah even very formally educated people can be wrong.




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M-Sport fan

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Are we talking about just the Fiesta? Because us Foxbody/SN95 owners would certainly disagree with those general statements!
Is there a particular thread where this topic was discussed in detail? I’d like to read up their opinions and if conditions (e.g. street vs track use) change their viewpoint.
YES, it IS specific to the Fiesta which although may not be THE most rigid structure in the automotive world, it is also most certainly NOT the 'flexiest'. [wink]
 


M-Sport fan

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Neither of them post anymore.

Look I'm going to say this and if it offends anybody oh well. I don't care if you are an engineer or whatever there are plenty of people in professions that are simply wrong and incorrect. If you don't believe me listen to the doctor death podcast there's two seasons. Yeah even very formally educated people can be wrong.




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Absolutely TRUE, but I personally will STILL take scientific proof/measurements over ANY/ALL 'seat of the pants' BS, every day of the week.

Show me the measurable evidence, and I will become a 'true believer' in all of this bracing.
(i.e.; When I go WOT in this factory stock car, it "FEELS LIKE" it is doing a 5 second flat 0-60, or better, operative words here; FEELS LIKE. I have owned a 12.5 second 115 MPH trap 4th gen Z28, so YES, I know what an actual sub 5 0-60 IS. [wink])
 


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