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Does anyone left foot brake?

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#1
Seeing if anyone left foot brakes either on the track or street. If so, which ESC mode are you using? I am trying to develop the skill further to help the car rotate around corners. Like being able to provoking oversteer.
 


jeffreylyon

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#2
I've left foot braked since my open wheel days, but only hard enough to change balance at HPDE or AX events where I've got ESC turned off. Don't drive this hard on the street....
 


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#4
I left foot brake at every available opportunity I can. Usually clutch into neutral and brake with my left under normal driving circumstances coming up to stop light etc.

There are times when I need to stop fast and quickly clutch with my left and brake with my right out of reflex/habit. I have also found that it's super easy to slide into neutral without using the clutch if you need/want to quickly brake with your left without stalling.

It's a great thing to regularly do in my opinion whether daily driving or in track circumstances. This video is one of the main reasons I started doing it actually:

https://youtu.be/xl7O01h7MU4
 


Zormecteon

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#6
I've been doing it since the early 1980 in my VW Rabbit Convertible (before they changed the name to Cabriolet). I had read about Stig Carlson doing it rallying in his SAAB and thought I should give it a try. To learn, there was a nice 270 degree sweeper that I would hit and just touch the brake. I found that I could four wheel drift, instead of having the front wash out, and could actually change the angle of the car in the corner by applying more or less brake. More would tighten the line and less would have me go wider.

At the Octane Academy, I asked one of the instructors about it, and they had seemingly never heard of the technique! I used it for the figure eight in the Urban Cross and count it responsible for my third place finish. .. .. ..

As mentioned above, not for use with ESC on, and in fact, most people will be faster by leaving the ESC on just driving. It's not as much fun as left foot braking, but it is faster and safer, especially for the street. On the track would be the perfect place to perfect the technique.
 


BRGT350

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#7
after Team O'Neil, I left foot brake every time I am in the car. It is a fun challenge and great to have the sensitivity in the left foot to operate the clutch and brake. When I get to the track, my left foot is already trained for left foot braking. I also find it to be very valuable in the winter on the street. I can better control the car on snow and ice.
 


M-Sport fan

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#8
At the Octane Academy, I asked one of the instructors about it, and they had seemingly never heard of the technique!
^^^This is kind of surprising!

I guess they are so used to using the hand brake for the same effect, that they never needed to learn this technique?? [dunno]
 


jeffreylyon

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#10
^^^This is kind of surprising!

I guess they are so used to using the hand brake for the same effect, that they never needed to learn this technique?? [dunno]
Left foot braking does not have the same effect as using the hand brake... at all! When driving in anger, left foot braking is good to smoothly transfer weight, often to cure understeer or correct a line, or to burn off speed during entry on a turn that doesn't require a down shift. Using the hand brake during a turn induces oversteer by suddenly reducing rear grip and is usually used only in tight turns with poor traction. Very different animals; you'd be asking for big trouble if you grabbed the hand brake during a high speed corner to tuck the nose in a tad.

And I doubt that any seasoned driving instructor hasn't heard of, or doesn't use, left foot braking... Watch *any* road race with cars that have brake lights - see the flickering brake lights just before apex? That's left foot braking. Everyone is doing it
 


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#12
I have in previous vehicles, and plan to in competition situations with the ST as well... Toying with it on the street, I've found that on my car at least, the ECU cuts throttle if you're dragging the brake for too long.... wondering if that's a failsafe built into the car for novice drivers not to get in trouble. I did play with it in all 3 ESC modes, to see if turning the system off would change the outcome, but it didn't. Has anyone else noticed this?

The last car I used in competition for left foot braking was an 89 CRX, so obviously no electronics, and different dynamically than the ST.
 


jeffreylyon

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#13
I have in previous vehicles, and plan to in competition situations with the ST as well... Toying with it on the street, I've found that on my car at least, the ECU cuts throttle if you're dragging the brake for too long.... wondering if that's a failsafe built into the car for novice drivers not to get in trouble. I did play with it in all 3 ESC modes, to see if turning the system off would change the outcome, but it didn't. Has anyone else noticed this?
I notice that too when I was bedding new brakes.
 


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#14
I have a hard time believing it would make you any quicker around a regular track in our cars, since they tend to rotate pretty well as it is and the TVC is on the brakes already to help you rotate the car. On a rally course sure, and maybe auto-x as well. No need for it on the street. Of course, if your goal is just to have fun getting the back end loose, go for it.
 


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#15
I have a hard time believing it would make you any quicker around a regular track in our cars, since they tend to rotate pretty well as it is and the TVC is on the brakes already to help you rotate the car. On a rally course sure, and maybe auto-x as well. No need for it on the street. Of course, if your goal is just to have fun getting the back end loose, go for it.
I can attest to myself being faster, in an autocross situation, using my left foot to assist with braking.

Disclamer: Left foot braking is a preference, and has a lot of factors that come into play as to whether it works for you or not on certain cars in certain situations.
I use left foot braking for autocross, and it makes me quicker, but I also have friends/competitors who don't left foot brake in similar cars and they are quicker than me.
A lot of it comes down to what you are comfortable with, and what your abilities + the car you're driving and how it is setup to your driving style. I have been in lazy v8 rwd cars where if you tried to left foot brake(LFB from here on out in the post) the tail would try to come around. Also have been in similar cars where if you didn't LFB, youd be fighting understeer and have a big, pushing pig on your hands. Coming from mostly an FWD based backround, most FWD cars as I have driven them, like some LFB inputs. Even on road course applications, I've used the technique to help rotation in slower elements, and also in quicker stuff to help control the nose of the car.
I say this with a big disclaimer, every situation is different, and knowing how to LFB, and also how to RFB, and when to use them to your advantage, and when not to.
 


Zormecteon

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#16
The handbrake only affects the rear wheels. As I understand it, there is not just the help with weight transfer, but IIRC there is a gyroscopic effect. Anyone ever roll an inner tube along the road (filled of course) and rub one side with a stick to cause it to turn? It's like that I believe.
 


jeffreylyon

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#17
The handbrake only affects the rear wheels. As I understand it, there is not just the help with weight transfer, but IIRC there is a gyroscopic effect. Anyone ever roll an inner tube along the road (filled of course) and rub one side with a stick to cause it to turn? It's like that I believe.
No. Precession has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
 


Siestarider

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#18
This thread has me wondering if anyone who tracks regularly has tried using ESC on track to see how lap times compare? I have not used it on track since my first day two years ago.

I tend to overdrive, left foot braking is one technique that might help me get quicker. But what if, after you learn to drive the Fist fairly quickly on track, ESC on could be a sort of limbo stick for training?
 


OP
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Thread Starter #19
Great points. I would also like to know the answer to that. ESC on, sport, or off?

Handbrake turns are hard to do on this car. I yanked on the handbrake and the rear tires refused to lock. The car just squats. Maybe it's my FIST, I find the handbrake ineffective.

I learned to left brake at a rally school called the FIRM (rally school). My experience was only on loose surfaces. I haven't tried it on a track/street. I would love to hear more about your track/street experience using this technique. Thanks.
 


Siestarider

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#20
Forgot to add I am running as LSD, so ESC on or sport is going to be different on track. With it off, I can maybe feel TVC just a tiny bit on full throttle out of corners at limit. Without LSD, I was really frustrated trying to get power down out of corners. But tendency to overdrive is part of that.
 




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