Fiesta ST makes C&D "Important cars of the last decade" list

[DoomsdayMelody]

To my knowledge there is no outcry of high failures rates on this forum, just endless debates on interpreting fluid levels (1 inch =25 mm or 20 mm, pick one!) and which "magic" juice to feed it. I hope you get yours straightened out, the FiST is such a fun car to drive. I agree Ford has zero to replace our cars without doubling the size and cost with a Mustang GT for performance and giving up the hatch, 2 doors and 10-15 MPG! I think I'll keep my FiST until me or the car is worn out!

Agree wholeheartedly, much as I would very likely enjoy a mustang EcoBoost, I just feel robbed that Ford is discontinuing this ‘lightning in a bottle’ moment in their lineup, makes me feel like I should spend my money on a manufacturer that cares about whether or not the car I buy makes me smile even at low speeds.

Then again, I appear to be a bit of an outlier in that the only manufacturer I have purchased cars from has been Ford.

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[DoomsdayMelody]

my point, I guess, is that it's an economy shitbox

This phrase makes me think you’ve never owned an actual shitbox.

It has power, it gets good fuel economy, from the right angles it looks pretty good. Power windows, Bluetooth... I could go on with features that were reserved for luxury cars only a decade ago.

Granted the car has some QC issues with the interior, but overall this cars pretty good as far as equipment goes, especially when you consider the driving dynamics.


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[Ford ST]

You ever driven a old Toyota Corolla wagon with a 3-speed automatic? That's a shitbox if there ever was one sure it might be reliable, but with only 5 horsepower how could it break.


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[Dpro]

This phrase makes me think you’ve never owned an actual shitbox.

It has power, it gets good fuel economy, from the right angles it looks pretty good. Power windows, Bluetooth... I could go on with features that were reserved for luxury cars only a decade ago.

Granted the car has some QC issues with the interior, but overall this cars pretty good as far as equipment goes, especially when you consider the driving dynamics.


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He has never owned a real tin with roll up windows. Lol. Aka seventies or eighties Japanese car. Hell even some in the 90’s were still in that category.
Indeed our cars are from shit boxes and this comes from a person who has owned some nice cars hell I do own some nice cars. A BMW is far from that Category especially a M3.

For a what is based off an econo car indeed our cars are well equipped and because of that and the basic reliability of them they are not shit boxes. A mid 90’s Hyundai,KiA, Daewoo where definitely shitboxes quite literally.

To qualify for shitbox categorization once has to have A: no power windows. B: possibly no factory AC, C; tin can body work i/e doors that literally rattle when closed see 70’s Datsuns. Toyota’s Hondas etc. Lol
and possibly completely unreliable drivetrains.

Now when I look at our cars I see and hear doors that
close nice and solid. Nothing wimpy about them. Factory AC that works well., A engine that is robust and a good clutch and trans. .
HMMMM where is the shitbox I don’t see it here.

I think the negative naysayers aka complainers on this forum go out of there way to overplay stuff.

I do not have a problem with my paint adhering even though I will be the first to admit its cheap Waterbased paint.

Guess what welcome to modern factory green mandated paint period all the manufacturers have suck ass paint and paint jobs. Ferrari is notorious for it!

Oh blend door actuator you know what I see that on other makes as well its not something that Ford is the only one it happens on. Its actually a little common my friends Dodge does it. Lol

Hmm tran is a little noisy due to possible factory underfill ah fixable with a fluid add.

Oh and guess what Warranties take care of a lot of this stuff crap dealers have nothing to
Do with the actual build of the car. Its not a bad build at all. I am now just over 10k and have not had any major problems not that it should but a shitbox would. Lol

 

[shouldbeasy]

You forgot Maple Syrup, Hawaiian pizza and ketchup chips!

Don't you forget my butter tarts!!

 

[Grendlehop18]

Traded my '17 for an Ecoboost Stang and I'm not sorry I did. The FiST was a fun car indeed, but I just couldn't get past the feeling something was going to go bad in a big way. Considering my mods, I'd likely end up paying out of pocket for repairs.
The FiST IS a cheap economy car that Ford tweaked into a lil rabid chihuahua, where the Mustang is what it was supposed to be from the start.

 

[Dpro]

Traded my '17 for an Ecoboost Stang and I'm not sorry I did. The FiST was a fun car indeed, but I just couldn't get past the feeling something was going to go bad in a big way. Considering my mods, I'd likely end up paying out of pocket for repairs.
The FiST IS a cheap economy car that Ford tweaked into a lil rabid chihuahua, where the Mustang is what it was supposed to be from the start.

Excuse me but Ford Germany did a lot of work developing the FiST. One could say the same thing about your Ecoboost Mustang in it was a V8 straight line car that Ford tweaked in a 4 cylinder turbo boosted drift car. Lol But Ford did a lot of work on it as well.

Sorry had to run that analogy on you because its straight up true neither car was designed to be what it became.

Nothing is going to bad with my FiST in a big just like nothing will go bad with your Ecoboost stang in a big unless we abuse the daylights out of them and go nuts with larger turbos on the engines and push them to hard. Anything can be broken its all up to the operator. Lol
Your fear of what could have happened with your FiST could be manifested with your stang.
When you are sliding around corners trying to get traction I will be looking at you in my rear view lol.

 

[jeff]

Traded my '17 for an Ecoboost Stang and I'm not sorry I did. The FiST was a fun car indeed, but I just couldn't get past the feeling something was going to go bad in a big way. Considering my mods, I'd likely end up paying out of pocket for repairs.
The FiST IS a cheap economy car that Ford tweaked into a lil rabid chihuahua, where the Mustang is what it was supposed to be from the start.

no

I have a buddy who has a 2014 FiST with 180k on the odo

nothing has broken car still on original clutch

enjoy your mustang

 

[Sam4]

You ever driven a old Toyota Corolla wagon with a 3-speed automatic? That's a shitbox if there ever was one sure it might be reliable, but with only 5 horsepower how could it break.


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Actually my high school car was the powerful '73 corolla 1200 - top speed - 55 down a hill. Affectionately know as the "cloud" - 4 spd manual and filled with marijuana smoke. You guys misunderstand - I love this car (the ST), I'm just saying, it's no (fill in w/your dream car here). It's why we pursue intake upgrades, blowoff valves, coilovers, catless downpipes, 3" exhaust, big turbos, Cobb stuff, etc........

 

[Grendlehop18]

Excuse me but Ford Germany did a lot of work developing the FiST. One could say the same thing about your Ecoboost Mustang in it was a V8 straight line car that Ford tweaked in a 4 cylinder turbo boosted drift car. Lol But Ford did a lot of work on it as well.

Sorry had to run that analogy on you because its straight up true neither car was designed to be what it became.

Nothing is going to bad with my FiST in a big just like nothing will go bad with your Ecoboost stang in a big unless we abuse the daylights out of them and go nuts with larger turbos on the engines and push them to hard. Anything can be broken its all up to the operator. Lol
Your fear of what could have happened with your FiST could be manifested with your stang.
When you are sliding around corners trying to get traction I will be looking at you in my rear view lol.

I get that both platforms have Ecoboost engines that weren't the main focal point during their original design concept, but focusing on chassis, the S550 in particular is worlds beyond that of the ST...even a huge jump up from the S197. Everything from the interior materials, IRS, F/R layout, wheelbase, F/R track width, weight distribution (esp. on the Eco) all speak to what an amazing result Ford achieved here. Don't get me started on the physical presence on the street. I know just about everyone but the GM diehards notice these new Mustangs. Running a staggered 19x10/11 setup with 325/30s out back don't hurt either!
As far as leaving me in the dust...you def would sir. I only drive on the street and after an unpleasant experience during my liter bike days, I've grown up a little. I thank God I made it through those 17 years in one piece Now I enjoy the semi-slow roll and lookin damn good doing it!

 

[KWeaver]

.................
When you are sliding around corners trying to get traction I will be looking at you in my rear view lol.

I know this is going to get a LOT of push back and vitriol but what you're implying is generally false. Maybe YOUR FiST will leave him in the rear view mirror but, stock vs. stock or similarly modified won't. AND, there is nothing wrong with that.

Sure, the FiST is almost certainly more fun (hence the OP article); virtually every car reviewer gave it rave reviews and, I know how much fun it is as well so I would agree with that statement. However, every road test gives the Stang better marks. Motortrend pulled .96gs and a 25.1s figure eight vs .90g and 26.1s for the FiST. Also noting that the testers thought there was something wrong with the tranny on their Mustang (2018 with the new 10a). With a 2016 manual ecoboost M/T pulled .95gs and 24.2s on the figure eight.

My point is simply that if you or I (or any of us really) had comparable experience with an EB Mustang we would be faster. The reason I wholeheartedly believe this is because I have experienced it with another platform. After much more seat time in my FiST I can say without a doubt that is it more nimble, more forgiving, easier to drive, and generally more fun than my FoST. But, it is NOT faster in the turns. It's more work and it's more stress but the FoST is faster if you're willing to push it. This coincides with better handling numbers from auto publications. I suspect the Mustang is the same (faster but harder to drive).

 

[jmrtsus]

Actually my high school car was the powerful '73 corolla 1200 - top speed - 55 down a hill. Affectionately know as the "cloud" - 4 spd manual and filled with marijuana smoke. You guys misunderstand - I love this car (the ST), I'm just saying, it's no (fill in w/your dream car here). It's why we pursue intake upgrades, blowoff valves, coilovers, catless downpipes, 3" exhaust, big turbos, Cobb stuff, etc........

"We" don't pursue all of that, my bet is most ST's stay stock. This forum is now mainly for people that look at the FiST as a platform to do other things to the car not the FiST owners at large. I will do nothing to my car to bypass EPA standards. I have the MP-215, and OCC and resonator/symposer delete. The car has all the performance I need and desire, my wife and I love the FiST for what it is. We also love our Mustang GT/CS, two different cars. The FiST gives people an excellent car as is and a platform for the now cheap used ones to come to market and with all the cheap (illegal) Chinese parts that provides a way to build your "dream" on. I have my dream FiST, and it is legal, important to me. The FiST is a cult car and it will remain a car that was historic in it's release and in the reviews and opinions of many it has been defined as one of the most fun cars in many years. As to a cheap car, it brought me SYNC 3 and Android compatibility so I didn't need to buy NAV. Nor ever pay for an update of NAV. It gives me 215 warranted HP and is the most fun car I have ever owned. Feature wise it was an upgrade for me, just did a trip this weekend, 38 Mpg highway, a decent sound system and all the features I want. A great trip car. A FiST is what you want it to be, does it stand up to a Mustang GT in performance or features, NO! Do I expect it too, NO! But for $20K it is a GREAT car.

 

[jmrtsus]

I know this is going to get a LOT of push back and vitriol but what you're implying is generally false. Maybe YOUR FiST will leave him in the rear view mirror but, stock vs. stock or similarly modified won't. AND, there is nothing wrong with that.

Sure, the FiST is almost certainly more fun (hence the OP article); virtually every car reviewer gave it rave reviews and, I know how much fun it is as well so I would agree with that statement. However, every road test gives the Stang better marks. Motortrend pulled .96gs and a 25.1s figure eight vs .90g and 26.1s for the FiST. Also noting that the testers thought there was something wrong with the tranny on their Mustang (2018 with the new 10a). With a 2016 manual ecoboost M/T pulled .95gs and 24.2s on the figure eight.

My point is simply that if you or I (or any of us really) had comparable experience with an EB Mustang we would be faster. The reason I wholeheartedly believe this is because I have experienced it with another platform. After much more seat time in my FiST I can say without a doubt that is it more nimble, more forgiving, easier to drive, and generally more fun than my FoST. But, it is NOT faster in the turns. It's more work and it's more stress but the FoST is faster if you're willing to push it. This coincides with better handling numbers from auto publications. I suspect the Mustang is the same (faster but harder to drive).

We test drove the FoST first then the FiST, we got out of the FiST and my wife and I said "Fiesta" at the same time. The torque steer was a major concern for us in the FoST. We have a FiST and Coyote Mustang auto, the Mustang will out corner and obviously out accelerate the FiST. But the FiST is more fun to drive hard. So we love both! As to the EB Mustang, excellent car but to us old timers a Mustang IS the epitome of small block Fords and sounds sooooo good..........

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

I get that both platforms have Ecoboost engines that weren't the main focal point during their original design concept, but focusing on chassis, the S550 in particular is worlds beyond that of the ST...even a huge jump up from the S197. Everything from the interior materials, IRS, F/R layout, wheelbase, F/R track width, weight distribution (esp. on the Eco) all speak to what an amazing result Ford achieved here. Don't get me started on the physical presence on the street. I know just about everyone but the GM diehards notice these new Mustangs. Running a staggered 19x10/11 setup with 325/30s out back don't hurt either!

Ok, I’d like to respectfully dissect this, because you’re giving the stang a lot of the benefit of the doubt. I’d like to preface this by saying that this isn’t an attack on the mustang, although it very well be a slight on Ford’s product development. So without further ado:

Comparing the S550 chassis with the B3 chassis is tilting the scales in the favor of the S550 from the onset. Cost-wise, the cheapest you can find a brand new car built on the S550 is about $25-$26k, that’s MSRP of the ecoboost mustang since 2015. Contrastingly the cheapest B3 derived car you could buy in North America was the Fiesta, which started as low as $14k. Meaning that the S550 was designed, from the get-go to be about 78% more expensive to the consumer, which comes with certain expectations of both compliance and performance. Of course the S550 is going to outperform the B3, it’s literally almost twice the cost.

Now let’s talk about the S550 in comparison to its predecessor: the S197. You like to talk about the massive improvement the 550 was compared to the 197 (aka D2C in ford speak), but the 197 traces its roots back to the Ford and Jaguar engineers in the mid-late 90s and the DEW98 platform. The DEW98 platform first appeared in a domestic ford owned brand with the Lincoln LS. There’s an important distinction here though: while the DEW98 had 4 wheel independent double wishbone suspension, Ford went full caveman with the 197 and put a live rear axle on it and MacPherson struts up front (the RWD equivalent to what the Fiesta has). Notable difference is that a base v6 S197 had an MSRP of $19,215 in 2004 dollars or $26,139 in 2020 dollars. Things like IRS, were already an industry standard by that time, and while drag racing enthusiasts will argue that live rear axles are better for their intended purpose, I don’t think anyone is arguing that in terms of road holding and ride comfort that IRS is better. The point of this is to say that a high schooler could have made significant improvements to the S197. The S550 wasn’t so much a renaissance, as it was Ford finally bringing a chassis to a competitive level with cars that were released a decade prior. It wasn’t a feat. Ford had been phoning the mustang in since the updated it with the new edge design in ‘99, and one could argue since they introduced the modular V-8. The only actually notable achievement that Ford made with the mustang between 2004 (start of the S197 mustang) and current car is the introduction of the coyote and the 2.3 ecoboost.

I will, of course, acknowledge the GT350 as it’s an entirely different beast. As far as regular mustangs go, I wouldn’t necessarily say that they’ve had a hugely unexpected development in the quality of their chassis.


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[KWeaver]

The only actually notable achievement that Ford made with the mustang between 2004 (start of the S197 mustang) and current car is the introduction of the coyote and the 2.3 ecoboost.

S197 first year was 2005. Having said that; you failed to mention one of the all time great mustangs which was around in 2004.

and if you don't know what I'm talking about.....

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

S197 first year was 2005. Having said that; you failed to mention one of the all time great mustangs which was around in 2004.

and if you don't know what I'm talking about.....

Terminator.

More of a Mach One with the 4v mod motor guy myself.

The 2005 MY would’ve started sales in 2004.


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[Dpro]

I know this is going to get a LOT of push back and vitriol but what you're implying is generally false. Maybe YOUR FiST will leave him in the rear view mirror but, stock vs. stock or similarly modified won't. AND, there is nothing wrong with that.

Sure, the FiST is almost certainly more fun (hence the OP article); virtually every car reviewer gave it rave reviews and, I know how much fun it is as well so I would agree with that statement. However, every road test gives the Stang better marks. Motortrend pulled .96gs and a 25.1s figure eight vs .90g and 26.1s for the FiST. Also noting that the testers thought there was something wrong with the tranny on their Mustang (2018 with the new 10a). With a 2016 manual ecoboost M/T pulled .95gs and 24.2s on the figure eight.

My point is simply that if you or I (or any of us really) had comparable experience with an EB Mustang we would be faster. The reason I wholeheartedly believe this is because I have experienced it with another platform. After much more seat time in my FiST I can say without a doubt that is it more nimble, more forgiving, easier to drive, and generally more fun than my FoST. But, it is NOT faster in the turns. It's more work and it's more stress but the FoST is faster if you're willing to push it. This coincides with better handling numbers from auto publications. I suspect the Mustang is the same (faster but harder to drive).

Ok first off I am a RWD car guy to start the fact that I bought a FiST is a strong statement. Say what you want about the Mustang its big and heavy. I am not a fan of big and heavy RWD unless its jaw dropping amazing. Actually while the Mustang is good even the damn ugly Camaro beats it in handling.
Is the Mustang good yes is it better than a FiST its damn different than the FiST in so many ways. I do not run around saying my FiST is better than a Mustang. I do say my FiST in a lot of cases will leave most Mustangs in the dust in the corners.

Honestly comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges!
Nuff said about that.
What drives me nuts around here is all these guys that buy a FiST own a year or less and wind up getting rid of it for the sake of something big and huge. Why did they buy the car in the first place. Lol
I also have driven the FoST and can honestly say yes if you put the FoST on a diet and modified the hell out of it it would start performing at FiST level . It is not as confident or quick in corners as the FiST though. Oh and I know you have been around the tree on this discussion before as you were the one that came in here and told us the FoST handled better;
It does not stock for stock and requires massive mods to get near the FiST IMO and I know you will say the FoST does in your opinion.

So at this point we better agree to disagree.

 

[KWeaver]

I also have driven the FoST and can honestly say yes if you put the FoST on a diet and modified the hell out of it it would start performing at FiST level . It is not as confident or quick in corners as the FiST though. Oh and I know you have been around the tree on this discussion before as you were the one that came in here and told us the FoST handled better;
It does not stock for stock and requires massive mods to get near the FiST IMO and I know you will say the FoST does in your opinion.

So at this point we better agree to disagree.

I simply do not understand you; I really don't. Have you even taken a few minutes to just google the lap times on these two cares? Have read any of the professional publications which have reviewed them? Have you checked out some of the "amateur" youtube videos which have compared them?

Virtually ALL of them show/say the same thing; FoST is faster, FiST is more fun (this includes the twistys).

I mean seriously; why would Motortrend show the FoST with a better lateral G and figure 8? Those guys LOVE the FiST and were lukewarm (at best) about the FoST so, if anything, they are biased in favor of the FiST

I may be the only one on these forums saying the FoST handles better but I am most certainly not the "only" one saying that. I am at a lose.... go to fastlaps.com, go to C/D, go to M/T. If I remember correctly there was even a FiST owner on these forums who went to the Octane Academy and got faster times in a FoST.

Point blank question; why do you think the FiST is faster in the turns? Is it simply anecdotal evidence? Because virtually ALL evidence beyond that says otherwise..........

Sorry but your just wrong, period. FoST has faster lap times on almost all tracks, FoST pulls higher G's, a better Figure 8, IRS, and more power.

In Closing;

The Ford Fiesta ST is more fun to drive than a Focus ST

.....but it's not faster!

 

[Ford ST]

Wasn't this post about car and driver I'll post a picture of a car driver article. See if you can spot the numbers they posted wrong by adding a extra digit. The first article I ever read about the Focus ST its brakes overheated so bad on the track from the torque vectoring they couldn't even drive it back, it left on a tow truck. Everything in this world has a pro and con a Mustang is a lot more likely to kill you than a hot hatchback. A Focus ST is much more likely to overheat its brakes than a Fiesta ST. I really don't care which one of y'all has the biggest dick, so stop acting like truck owners who have a measuring tape on their belt so they can measure each other's hot dog.

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[KWeaver]

I have acknowledged that the FiST is an amazing car and worthy of the list in the OP. I only chimed in to say that Dpro was "wrong" when he implied that a FiST is faster/handles better than an EB Mustang. He (and others) also erroneously believe that a FiST is faster than a FoST in the turns as well. It's just factually incorrect and he REFUSES to acknowledge this. I mean hell; this took me 1 minute to find on google (and there are countless others);

Car and Drivers full record of Lightning Laps at Virginia International Raceway
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/

#214 EB Mustang - 3:15.6
#230 FoST - 3:17.6
#241 FiST - 3:20.4

IDK; Fake News I guess????