Smog checks and CARB going away!

[MKVIIST]

Hey all, just a reminder to please keep the discussions civil.

 

[Woods247]

Emissions requirements in my city (Atlanta) made an impact but the biggest change came from the city switching all the busses from diesel to natural gas. Only then we saw a visible difference. Sure, if every car was catless it would suck but 5 or 600 enthusiast cars would be negligible. There’s at least that many catless cars rolling everyday from theft here. 😂 LA is still bad in my opinion but that’s simply due to its topography. The western fires can be felt here if the wind is blowing the wrong way. I’ve always wondered if you guys have respirators for fire season. I’d definitely die without one there. Still LOVE to visit though.

 

[rallytaff]

Emissions requirements in my city (Atlanta) made an impact but the biggest change came from the city switching all the busses from diesel to natural gas. Only then we saw a visible difference. Sure, if every car was catless it would suck but 5 or 600 enthusiast cars would be negligible. There’s at least that many catless cars rolling everyday from theft here. 😂 LA is still bad in my opinion but that’s simply due to its topography. The western fires can be felt here if the wind is blowing the wrong way. I’ve always wondered if you guys have respirators for fire season. I’d definitely die without one there. Still LOVE to visit though.

Glad to see you're using the correct term "respirators" and not gas masks. Charcoal filtered respirators were used in the Army during my tenure. Gas masks were used during WW1. I've never needed a 'respirator' for any of the fires or the smog.

 

[jmrtsus]

Climate change is real, and pretending it's not is going to destroy most life on the planet.
Science over feelings.
Looks like Dimo stuff to me!
View attachment 67345

 

[rallytaff]

Of course it's real! It's been going on for billions of years and will keep changing for the next billion! I see you have never explained why it was warmer centuries ago and I doubt that you can! So when are you going to stop driving your car to help the planet?

 

[foodtruck]

Of course it's real! It's been going on for billions of years and will keep changing for the next billion! I see you have never explained why it was warmer centuries ago and I doubt that you can! So when are you going to stop driving your car to help the planet?

Well, like I said previously, of course earth was warmer before (for example before ice age) and it would get warmer even without human activity because we're still coming out of that ice age. That was never under question.

The problem is it's happening way quicker than it's manageable because of human activity but you keep gleefully ignoring everything said about that And it's true, a few car enthusiasts probably won't do as much damage as say container shipping or cruise industry, but it's just depressing to see facts that even oil companies (!) acknowledged are getting ignored.

At this point, it's pretty clear nothing will ever change your mind on this subject. Enjoy the extra fumes, sir.

 

[rallytaff]

So now you want to ban container ships and destroy the cruise ship industry and eventually destroy capitalism? People are on this planet to work and make money, so why are you working and destroying the planet? By the way, you still can't tell me why it was warmer centuries ago because you don't have a clue what caused it, but today, just because there are more people on the planet, you're blaming them. As I've said previously, if all the people on this earth were gone tomorrow, NOTHING would change and the climate would go on just like it always has. The climate change crap is to rip people off and tax them even higher for something that we have no control over. To think otherwise is pure insanity!

 

[Intuit]

Hold on lets be reasonable and not build straw men out of each other's comments.

Mr Rallytaff, am I right that you admit that there at least can be a preexisting warming trend that may be worsening due to human activity? BUT, you're emphasizing that this A PREEXISTING trend and we shouldn't be worried about it. Is that fair, or no?

Mr Foodtruck, your point is, a result of human activity, this preexisting trend is occurring at an unprecedented rate; that can make it difficult for people and wildlife to adjust. It is reasonable to ask people and industry to develop and use cleaner technologies that will eventually help slow the warming trend. I know there is much more to this, but is that fair?

We may also add that these technologies also help reduce air pollution in general.

On a side note, I recall my high school science teacher talking about the old days when everything used to be covered in soot due to coal furnaces in residential homes. Mom told us how they'd have coal delivered to the side of the house and they as kids, would shovel it to the chute which lead to the coal bin in the basement. Street lamps were gas operated, if I recall correctly. Pretty interesting stuff. Science was always one of my favorite classes and subjects. Didn't like caging or killing animals but the other experiments were absolute fun. 🤓

 

[foodtruck]

you still can't tell me why it was warmer centuries ago because you don't have a clue what caused it

We do, actually; to give you the most vulgar one, how about volcanic activity. Early in earth's history, there was much more of it since the planet was younger. Another component are greenhouse gasses that we're discussing here. Concentrations of methane, CO2 and other ones varied drastically over the history, for example see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eocene#Climate. They affect atmosphere in various ways, such as make it better at trapping heat. Going back to volcanic activity, we have records of it reshaping bodies of water and changing currents, which also affects the climate (look up Gulf stream and what would happen if it ever stops). There are probably other more subtle drivers as well, but I'm not a climate scientist so I only know so much off the top of my head.

Throughout history, all of those things were changing the climate way more gradually than since the industrial revolution (save maybe from when the planet was a ball of molten lava).

Mr Foodtruck, your point is, a result of human activity, this preexisting trend is occurring at an unprecedented rate; that can make it difficult for people and wildlife to adjust. It is reasonable to ask people and industry to develop and use cleaner technologies that will eventually help slow the warming trend. I know there is much more to this, but is that fair?

Yes.

there are more people on the planet, you're blaming them.

I'm not blaming people for being numerous, I'm blaming ones who disregard stewardship of their only home. The capitalism you're defending loves externalizing cost which means for example dumping the waste the cheapest way possible and pretending it won't leak into waterways and kill someone (look up PTFE and how people fought to make the manufacturer acknolwedge the problem). I want to see leaders of industry at least _try_ not shit in their own backyard, but that's too much to ask because they want to maximize profits and retire happy while letting the next generation deal with consequences. (Inb4 Foodtruck is communist, I grew up in post-communist society and I saw the tragedy with my own eyes, so don't try to go there. I definitely don't advocate for it)

Like you said, we'd have a warmer planet whether we want it or not, but we should've used the time that we have to prepare for what's to come without making it notably worse. And, if you _have_ to make climate worse, then there are better things to spend the precious capacity for; for instance being able to use AC and not to die from heat exhaustion beats being able to use dogshit AI chatbots the industry is shoving into everyone's faces and burning up the energy for any day of the week.