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Oil catch can/Separator

dyn085

dyn085

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CanadianGuy said:
Well here is a lengthy article on the Ford ecoboost. Granted it is a few years old and about the 3.5. Bust since Ford is putting the ecoboost in everything they have vested interest to keep it working well.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/musc...d-bare-in-front-of-live-audience/489211124997
Click to expand...
I didn't read the article fully, but through skimming it it did seen like the engine was put through some torture in a relatively short time. The two things I noticed was that it was a lot of heavy load (read-high temperature) and that the after-dyno only showed a loss of 1 hp. I would assume that in their quest to put the engine through a 'torture-test' that the engine ran a lot and didn't have much time running cold.

Either way, this should reaffirm what I've been saying.
 


D

dw2b22

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Well at least we all agree that this a PROBLEM regardless of it being a di or not. I am just trying to help in anyway possible to prevent this from happening. If a catch can helps in anyway then it is a win. Ford also sees this as a problem or they wouldn't be trying to figure out a solution of cleaning
 


D

dw2b22

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I also agree that proper temperature control is vital but also oil being sprayed onto the back of valves that are around 800 degrees will cause carbon build up regardless of how you drive your car

The reason I don't see cleaning as a viable option is if you knock off a piece of that carbon while cleaning and it hits the Turbine at a speed of thousands of rpm even at idle it will destroy the blades
 


dyn085

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dw2b22 said:
Well at least we all agree that this a PROBLEM regardless of it being a di or not. I am just trying to help in anyway possible to prevent this from happening. If a catch can helps in anyway then it is a win. Ford also sees this as a problem or they wouldn't be trying to figure out a solution of cleaning
Click to expand...
I understand, and hopefully my posts aren't coming off as condescending or negative. I'm just giving my perspective from being in the DI community for a few years with friends that have significantly worse buildup issues in other communities. If there was any one-single solution then there would be no debate. I'm glad that it's actually been a rational and not heated discussion.

I just get frustrated seeing people in the community parroting solutions or problems that they think are fact (not you, but others have). This whole thread has been dedicated to solving a problem that, if we're honest with ourselves, we don't even know the actual severity of. There's a huge difference between buildup every 20k miles versus 100k when most certified valve cleanings cost in the vicinity of $1500. Buildup is absolutely going to happen, but to what degree should be the first question.
 


dyn085

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dw2b22 said:
I also agree that proper temperature control is vital but also oil being sprayed onto the back of valves that are around 800 degrees will cause carbon build up regardless of how you drive your car

The reason I don't see cleaning as a viable option is if you knock off a piece of that carbon while cleaning and it hits the Turbine at a speed of thousands of rpm even at idle it will destroy the blades
Click to expand...
True, which is why we want to get to operating temperatures and not stay at redline under load the entire time we're driving. This, along with using a good oil, will help resist buildup instead of promote it. You still want to get some high-heat scenarios in (to help burn off some carbon), you just don't want to run that way everywhere. I do an Italian tune-up before every oil change and my OCI will be determined by UOA's.
 


Chris G

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dyn085 said:
I understand, and hopefully my posts aren't coming off as condescending or negative. I'm just giving my perspective from being in the DI community for a few years with friends that have significantly worse buildup issues in other communities. If there was any one-single solution then there would be no debate. I'm glad that it's actually been a rational and not heated discussion.

I just get frustrated seeing people in the community parroting solutions or problems that they think are fact (not you, but others have). This whole thread has been dedicated to solving a problem that, if we're honest with ourselves, we don't even know the actual severity of. There's a huge difference between buildup every 20k miles versus 100k when most certified valve cleanings cost in the vicinity of $1500. Buildup is absolutely going to happen, but to what degree should be the first question.
Click to expand...
Stupid question - is Ford offering up the valve cleaning at 100k?
 


dyn085

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Chris G said:
Stupid question - is Ford offering up the valve cleaning at 100k?
Click to expand...
Right now there is no approved method of valve cleaning. If your valves need cleaned they will actually do a head replacement, and that's only if you're under warranty.

Not the greatest news, but I'm sure they'll end up approving a walnut blast like everyone else.
 


D

dw2b22

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I really would like to see some fist intake valves Heck it might only be a Fost issue. Has anyone had there fist apart to check? I will be if/when I install a spacer. But I bought my fist with 6,700 and have had a cc since 8400 so we shall see
 


Chris G

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Rodmoe may be the only one that has pulled everything apart... but I could be really wrong here.
 


JPGC

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dw2b22 said:
I really would like to see some fist intake valves Heck it might only be a Fost issue. Has anyone had there fist apart to check? I will be if/when I install a spacer. But I bought my fist with 6,700 and have had a cc since 8400 so we shall see
Click to expand...
Here you go... My 2014 FiST.16k miles of which 10k+ an air/ oil separator cc was installed. I also use Amsoil 5w-30...with the exception of 1 oil change and the initial fill.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444111.012153.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444127.005832.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444142.611728.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444156.463694.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444172.144415.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444188.204755.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444211.456181.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426444231.875132.jpg
 


dyn085

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dw2b22 said:
I really would like to see some fist intake valves Heck it might only be a Fost issue. Has anyone had there fist apart to check? I will be if/when I install a spacer. But I bought my fist with 6,700 and have had a cc since 8400 so we shall see
Click to expand...
That's exactly where I stand. I want to see who has what buildup at what mileage along with a rough estimate of average commute and OCI/brand. It's easier to address a problem when you can see trends and know what you're dealing with. There absolutely will be a problem, but again-a 20k problem and a 100k problem are quite different.

If the problem was serious and I intended on keeping the car long, I would add an aux fuel setup, tune accordingly, and hit WOT a few times a day (not that I don't do the latter already). That would take a serious problem and delay it quite a bit.
 


dyn085

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JPGC said:
Here you go... My 2014 FiST.16k miles of which 10k+ an air/ oil separator cc was installed. I also use Amsoil 5w-30...with the exception of 1 oil change and the initial fill.
Click to expand...
That looks to be relatively in line with what I've seen in the FoST community. Not too terribly bad. Not great, obviously, but I've seen much worse in other communities. What would you say is your average drive/commute?
 


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dw2b22

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Well that's with a occ so I feel a little bit better about things also JPGC were you vta or inline? Also where you running hose 2 (valve cover to intake) in stock location.
 


JPGC

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dw2b22 said:
Well that's with a occ so I feel a little bit better about things also JPGC were you vta or inline? Also where you running hose 2 (valve cover to intake) in stock location.
Click to expand...
The catch can is inline and only installed on the passenger side. The other side has the cobb replacement hose which is a lot longer than stock.
 


JPGC

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dyn085 said:
That looks to be relatively in line with what I've seen in the FoST community. Not too terribly bad. Not great, obviously, but I've seen much worse in other communities. What would you say is your average drive/commute?
Click to expand...
Average commute is about 45-50 miles daily with a mixture of stop and go/ highway.
 


dyn085

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dw2b22 said:
Well that's with a occ so I feel a little bit better about things also JPGC were you vta or inline? Also where you running hose 2 (valve cover to intake) in stock location.
Click to expand...
I should have clarified-that looks in line with the FoST community both with and without an OCC.

11k with an OCC-
[video=youtube;1U0Rpgstoto]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U0Rpgstoto[/video]

25k with no OCC-
[video=youtube;e1ClZWn1Gbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ClZWn1Gbc[/video]

A bit more than twice the mileage with about twice the buildup, despite the lack of OCC. The same guy with the camera, but obviously two different cars as they are local friends.

Here's a second-attempt at the 20k MS3 pic-
 


OP
Sekred

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Thread Starter #238
Good debate.
Even though I run a catch can there is on documented evidence that it will reduce carbon built-up on the intake valves, its all theory.
The same theory applies to low NOACK oil and WMI.
You can theorise all you like but without documented testing carried out in a controlled environment it means nothing.
Direct injection or Port injection I will still run a catch can for other reasons.
 


re-rx7

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