Clutch Feel inconsistent, sometimes VERY heavy, sometimes sort of acceptable, mostly just heavy

[mdonald623]

I picked up my new 15 FiST last year in August. When I first got the car the clutch felt fine, smooth, normalish... I didn't notice anything off about it really. A couple weeks after that I started to notice the clutch becoming tiresome and heavy. Some days on the first drive in the morning the clutch will feel sorta nice and acceptable, some days very heavy and somewhat rough or numb, but it doesn't seem to have to do with the weather at all and it almost always ends up feeling unacceptably heavy by the end of my drive if it isn't already. Getting stuck in traffic sucks bad in this car, worse than any other manual I've owned, and I know that's not right. The weird thing is occasionally when it's heavy it will suddenly lighten up while driving (sometimes to the point where I slam it down expecting it to be heavy) or vice versa, but it usually goes back to being fairly heavy in about 5 minutes. Bleeding the system seems to help, the clutch will be acceptable for a day or two after bleeding but slowly returns to heaviness. Another odd possible symptom I've noticed is that after about an hour of interstate driving the first press of the clutch is incredibly stiff but lightens up to normal heaviness after a press or two, this doesn't always happen though. Haven't found any solutions for this one but I have seen it elsewhere online.

I've taken the car two different dealers recently but they keep insisting it's normal (as I expected). One problem with the dealers troubleshooting is that the clutch feel actually improves somewhat when the car is stopped and you just mess with the clutch, but it goes back to its normal after a couple miles driving, so they don't find or notice anything. The clutch has felt acceptably light before so I don't see how it could be the spring in the clutch itself, but I have no idea at this point. The slave cylinder has been changed once already by the dealer due to a leak so it's not likely to be that (clutch feel didn't change at all after it was replaced either, it was nice-ish for a few days but went back to normal, probably due to being bled). I've opened a ticket with Ford and done all that too, they say the same thing. Clutch works, car's fine.

I've driven 3 FiSTs since I bought mine, two of them (2014s) felt roughly equivalent to my clutch when it feels acceptable (maybe a bit lighter, but it was hard to compare), the other one (2016) was so light the pedal basically stuck to the floor.

The next step in my head is to just buy a new damn master cylinder and have it put in or do it myself and see if that helps, if not then I don't know what to do. I guess I'll be getting rid of the car if it comes down to it. It's hard to really enjoy driving it when the clutch is so wonky.

Summary:
-Clutch is what I would describe as medium-heavy normally, certainly not 'light'
-Clutch can be made acceptably light by fiddling with the pedal (sometimes) or bleeding it, but it goes back to heavy quickly
-Clutch is sometimes just randomly light and sort of nice feeling in the morning when I first drive the car but usually not
-Clutch can randomly become lighter while driving but goes back to normal fast
-Clutch system doesn't seem to leak at all
-After long interstate drives clutch is incredibly heavy for a few presses then is 'normal' again
-Likely not the slave cylinder since it is new
-Doesn't seem to be affected by weather/temp
-Dealers/Ford don't seem to be able to help because the clutch still works

Any advice is appreciated, I just want to be able to fully enjoy this awesome little car. Really don't want to get rid of it.


Thanks

 

[Crooked Letta]

Possible pressure plate problem. The oddity is the inconsistency and that is kind of the problem.

Key points are that there are no leaks. This shouldn't cause a hard pedal but instead would not let the clutch disengage. Good point but I wouldn't look here.

No grinding, this indicates that the hydraulic system is functioning properly and fully disengaging the clutch every time no matter the effort. A hydraulic problem would usually cause some indication of not being able to disengage the clutch.

Comes to the next point of the only problem you are experiencing is increased effort. Well there are a few things that give the overall weight to pedal. The main one being the pressure plate, but usually you would get some type of noise of other symptom as well.

The way you describe it almost sounds like something is binding randomly. If I were you I would right down better specifics in what it takes for this to occur, and for how long it happens.

I had this problem with my SVT Focus but didn't last long, retaining pin snapped the weld for the clutch pedal and had to weld it back together. I'm not sure how bleeding it fixes the problem either. If you have air in the system constantly then you have a leak, but if you had a leak or air the clutch won't function normally and you should get some grinding or hard shifting. Another question is what does this fluid look like when you do bleed it? Are you riding the clutch and boiling the fluid, this could create air, this would also cause things to stick as well with burnt fluid.

 

[mdonald623]

Thanks for replying.

I've been trying to pay close attention to the feel lately and I bled it a little earlier today with a vacuum bleeder, the feel didn't change at all this time, so I'm starting to think maybe I was going a bit crazy. The fluid looked ok by the way, a bit milky but I think that was just my vacuum pump being dirty. Lately the feel has been more consistent, but in a bad way, it doesn't seem to want to loosen up like it did last few times I bled it or when I just fiddle with the pedal. It still occasionally feels acceptably smooth/light, but it could be in my head I guess...

There's a lump in our clutch throw that seems like it's due to the assist spring, a heavy spot that you have to overcome before going all the way to the floor. I'm thinking now the reason mine feels so heavy sometimes is because that lump is literally right off the floor in my car, as in you just barely overcome it before the clutch is all the way down. This means that in traffic and such when you let out the clutch to creep up a bit you're right on the heaviest spot of the throw. I'm pretty sure it's not due to the assist spring though because that heavy 'lump' seems to move around a bit on the throw and feels a lot heavier than a spring. I think maybe when it moves up the pedal throw a bit it becomes more "acceptable" in my head because the clutch isn't so stiff right near the floor.

Now what I'm thinking is do I go for a clutch replacement or should I change the master cylinder? Obviously the master is way cheaper but I think I just want it to be the master for that reason and it's not likely to be an issue. Hopefully a clutch replacement would fix this, but it would be pretty awful to spent the $$ and find out it was the master cylinder. I'm thinking getting rid of the car would just be a waste of money if the problem could be fixed with a 800 ish dollar clutch replacement.

Having said that, is there any possibility Ford would replace the clutch in my car for such an odd issue or am I just SOL? The first dealer I went to agreed it was a little heavier than others he drove and said it was probably the clutch, he attempted to get the replacement approved but Ford came back with the old 'it's not broke so don't fix it' deal. After they gave me the car back from that trip the clutch felt definitely lighter/smoother, probably from them messing around with it, but it was mostly back to heavy before I got home.

PS no clutch riding or anything like that, don't do autoX or competitive driving with the car either

Thanks again for reading/advice,

Daniel

 

[Crooked Letta]

Thanks for replying.

I've been trying to pay close attention to the feel lately and I bled it a little earlier today with a vacuum bleeder, the feel didn't change at all this time, so I'm starting to think maybe I was going a bit crazy. The fluid looked ok by the way, a bit milky but I think that was just my vacuum pump being dirty. Lately the feel has been more consistent, but in a bad way, it doesn't seem to want to loosen up like it did last few times I bled it or when I just fiddle with the pedal. It still occasionally feels acceptably smooth/light, but it could be in my head I guess...

There's a lump in our clutch throw that seems like it's due to the assist spring, a heavy spot that you have to overcome before going all the way to the floor. I'm thinking now the reason mine feels so heavy sometimes is because that lump is literally right off the floor in my car, as in you just barely overcome it before the clutch is all the way down. This means that in traffic and such when you let out the clutch to creep up a bit you're right on the heaviest spot of the throw. I'm pretty sure it's not due to the assist spring though because that heavy 'lump' seems to move around a bit on the throw and feels a lot heavier than a spring. I think maybe when it moves up the pedal throw a bit it becomes more "acceptable" in my head because the clutch isn't so stiff right near the floor.

Now what I'm thinking is do I go for a clutch replacement or should I change the master cylinder? Obviously the master is way cheaper but I think I just want it to be the master for that reason and it's not likely to be an issue. Hopefully a clutch replacement would fix this, but it would be pretty awful to spent the $$ and find out it was the master cylinder. I'm thinking getting rid of the car would just be a waste of money if the problem could be fixed with a 800 ish dollar clutch replacement.

Having said that, is there any possibility Ford would replace the clutch in my car for such an odd issue or am I just SOL? The first dealer I went to agreed it was a little heavier than others he drove and said it was probably the clutch, he attempted to get the replacement approved but Ford came back with the old 'it's not broke so don't fix it' deal. After they gave me the car back from that trip the clutch felt definitely lighter/smoother, probably from them messing around with it, but it was mostly back to heavy before I got home.

PS no clutch riding or anything like that, don't do autoX or competitive driving with the car either

Thanks again for reading/advice,

Daniel

It's a tough call and be careful with letting this get in your head. The reason why I said what I said as it's easy to hone in on problems and let them plague your mind. With out driving the vehicle I can't really say much more as to what you should do. You made a good point with the assist spring and I know many FoST people take them out but some hate it and end up reinstalling it. Ford would take care of it if you could prove there is a problem in their eyes, but yes things like this have to have prior approval so that is why they said what they said.

I honestly would not put any money into it. If there is a problem it will only get worse over time and then be easier to diag. If it comes between loving and hating the car then do what you must but you are correct in taking that gamble.

 

[mdonald623]

Appreciate it, the issue hasn't really gotten worse or better over time, I've just been avoiding dealing with it because of the effort I knew it would take to get it fixed. I've already gone through the phase of 'oh just deal with it, maybe it'll improve or something' and now I'm on 'time to fix this or get rid of the car' mode because I can't stand it anymore. It's going to drive me mad unless I just pay to have it fixed or get rid of it altogether. The car just isn't enjoyable to drive around town, if it was consistent at least maybe I could ignore it. It's just frustrating because I know someone who bought one of these after me and his is nice and light, really enjoyable to drive.