AWD conversion

[Dialcaliper]

I was thinking of buying a wrecked Nissan Leaf plus and putting that entire drivetrain in the rear. A 200 hp increase would be nice and I could still get around if gas gets crazy expensive, I can just drive around with the ice at idle and use the electric for propulsion. The only issue I can't seem to overcome is the Leaf is limited to 80 something mph and I exceed that almost every day.

The biggest problem with most electric conversions is the weight and size of the battery. A Leaf for example has an underfloor battery pack that weighs near 1000lb which will pretty much kill the handling if you can even find a place to mount it. The motor is small but the inverter takes up a decent amount of space too. It’s also hard to substitute a smaller battery because there’s not really a standard battery voltage between cars.

Unless you plan to completely swap the drivetrain, you’d be better off with using some wrecked Tesla or other battery modules, and custom electronics to run the motor(s)

 

[Mike King]

The biggest problem with most electric conversions is the weight and size of the battery. A Leaf for example has an underfloor battery pack that weighs near 1000lb which will pretty much kill the handling if you can even find a place to mount it. The motor is small but the inverter takes up a decent amount of space too. It’s also hard to substitute a smaller battery because there’s not really a standard battery voltage between cars.

Unless you plan to completely swap the drivetrain, you’d be better off with using some wrecked Tesla or other battery modules, and custom electronics to run the motor(s)

Tesla makes it very difficult to reverse engineer control over its inverter though I am considering it as well. Yes, there is some open-source work being done and it's already been done with the Leafs. Thunderstruck has a standalone VCU for less than $500. VCU for Leaf and UQM (thunderstruck-ev.com) Where did you get the battery weight from?

 

[Dialcaliper]

Tesla makes it very difficult to reverse engineer control over its inverter though I am considering it as well. Yes, there is some open-source work being done and it's already been done with the Leafs. Thunderstruck has a standalone VCU for less than $500. VCU for Leaf and UQM (thunderstruck-ev.com) Where did you get the battery weight from?

Dont bother with the Tesla inverter unless you’re integrating a full battery pack, which is all in series for high voltage. There are plenty of aftermarket EV conversion motor controllers out there, which are plenty reliable (because they’ve been around for decades)

 

[jeffreylyon]

Are there any examples of a DIYer hacking a CAN bus to blend ICE power with a spliced-in EV powertrain? I’ve monkeyed with CAN and I would think that you’d have to figure out a router of some sort to infer and route throttle position signals to each powertrain. A company was developing a set of rear wheels with integrated motors and mounted them to a Civil SI in 2019 or so. They have, since, pivoted and went quiet. I think that they just piggy-backed the throttle and brake signals.

 

[Mike King]

Are there any examples of a DIYer hacking a CAN bus to blend ICE power with a spliced-in EV powertrain? I’ve monkeyed with CAN and I would think that you’d have to figure out a router of some sort to infer and route throttle position signals to each powertrain. A company was developing a set of rear wheels with integrated motors and mounted them to a Civil SI in 2019 or so. They have, since, pivoted and went quiet. I think that they just piggy-backed the throttle and brake signals.

I don't know of any but if I try this, I will keep both systems separate. I don't want to tie the ICE throttle to the inverter just in case I want to run mostly electric and just use the ICE at idle to keep my climate controls, power steering, all bcm functions including the audio. I haven't worked that out in my mind yet.

 

[jeffreylyon]

I don't know of any but if I try this, I will keep both systems separate. I don't want to tie the ICE throttle to the inverter just in case I want to run mostly electric and just use the ICE at idle to keep my climate controls, power steering, all bcm functions including the audio. I haven't worked that out in my mind yet.

That's why you'd have to blend. If you want to EV you'd route the throttle position to the EV powertrain. If you want both you'd route to both powertrains. This is hard. https://orbisdriven.com/ tried it and, I believe, gave up and, now, are just offering full EV conversations rather than a hybrid solution.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Unfortunately, the rally cars are out of reach for most of us. There aren’t a whole lot of them made, and scarcity always drives up the price of things, especially since most of those cars have the coveted M-Sport body kit that everyone lusts after. Not to mention, most of the WRC Mk7.5 Fiestas all have modified floor pans to accommodate a straight-through exhaust and beefy one-piece driveshaft.

It makes me wonder just what M-Sport would charge for an AWD Rally 4 Fiesta built without the; FIA full cage/required safety kit/etc. (IF they would even do that and ship it here as a one year exemption 'competition vehicle')?

This basically looks like a Mk8 version of our cars, and has NO co$tly carbon fiber/kevlar composite bodywork, like the R5/WRC Fiestas, at all.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...hUKEwiJ5d-r6Kf7AhWBrnIEHczcB9QQMygDegUIARDMAQ

 

[Mike King]

That's why you'd have to blend. If you want to EV you'd route the throttle position to the EV powertrain. If you want both you'd route to both powertrains. This is hard. https://orbisdriven.com/ tried it and, I believe, gave up and, now, are just offering full EV conversations rather than a hybrid solution.

I was thinking to have a separate throttle for the ev, perhaps a twist knob on the console OR a parallel throttle pedal/sensor that I can reach both. Maybe shave off the left side off the stock pedal and have two skinny pedals so I can choose both or just ev. The main issue I have in my mind is top speed. I can not be limited to 80 something mph when I exceed that almost every day. Shit, I can literally be at 100mph by the end of an on ramp if I chose.

 

[Mycooking]

Raising the top speed wont be an issue if you use one of the proven aftermarket controllers as they have proven to easily exceed 80mph and can have programmed speed cutoffs. Even the Leafs themselves on stock hardware have been reprogrammed to raise the limiter even going so far as to give it a top speed of 60mph in reverse lol. Its all just software based that limits the top speeds so just like tuning on our ICE cars it can be done with EVs as well just some are tougher (Tesla) to crack the software.

 

[jeffreylyon]

I was thinking to have a separate throttle for the ev, perhaps a twist knob on the console OR a parallel throttle pedal/sensor that I can reach both. Maybe shave off the left side off the stock pedal and have two skinny pedals so I can choose both or just ev. The main issue I have in my mind is top speed. I can not be limited to 80 something mph when I exceed that almost every day. Shit, I can literally be at 100mph by the end of an on ramp if I chose.

The issue you find most concerning of a DIY, AWD, integrated twin powertrain, with, essentially, the front clip of a Leaf narrowed 3" and crammed into the hogged-out, space-framed back of a FiST....., is the top speed?

 

[jeffreylyon]

Raising the top speed wont be an issue if you use one of the proven aftermarket controllers as they have proven to easily exceed 80mph and can have programmed speed cutoffs. Even the Leafs themselves on stock hardware have been reprogrammed to raise the limiter even going so far as to give it a top speed of 60mph in reverse lol. Its all just software based that limits the top speeds so just like tuning on our ICE cars it can be done with EVs as well just some are tougher (Tesla) to crack the software.

Except that the motor runs out of torque. I can feel my the torque delivered drop-off pretty quickly as my Leaf approached its top speed, when torque is immediately limited. The motors do have a top RPM.

 

[ScaR]

Where would you buy car's like this?

 

[Combatspace]

Sorry for reviving an old thread here, but doing a bit of research on potentially doing some silly things to my 2015 SE. For context, I am a fabricator and mechanic working out of a shop in Virginia, USA.

So far, my little armchair research has yielded the following:
- Rear IRS subframe assembly from AWD ecosport is possibly a bolt-on affair with some modification/fabrication for height adjustments (namely IIRC the placement of the hubs in relation to the trailing arms vs. torsion beam)
- Donor PTU (transfer case) from 1.5/1.6 ecoboost models of the Fusion, Escape/Kuga, Flex, etc. could potentially bolt to the sigma styled PowerShift/6MT's? Having a bit of difficulty being able to tell just from pics though, might make a run to the local pick-n-pull to see for sure...

This leaves us the previously mentioned hurdles of relocating the fuel tank, evap components, exhaust, sourcing axles, and running the electronically controlled clutch actuator of the rear diff. Most of these are somewhat trivial things to find solutions for when you run a fab/performance shop, but the axles are a bit outside my wheel house.

There is always the option of taking the 1.5t/1.6t transmission with the PTU from the donor car as a whole assembly and swapping it into the Fiesta platform but as I'm sure most of you guys like your 6MT's I suspect thats an unpopular notion. As my SE already has a DCT unit, its less a concern for me personally.

Curious to hear if @Dialcaliper or @LilPocketRocket have made any headway on theorycrafting/fabrication.

 

[WannabeST]

Sorry for reviving an old thread here, but doing a bit of research on potentially doing some silly things to my 2015 SE. For context, I am a fabricator and mechanic working out of a shop in Virginia, USA.

So far, my little armchair research has yielded the following:
- Rear IRS subframe assembly from AWD ecosport is possibly a bolt-on affair with some modification/fabrication for height adjustments (namely IIRC the placement of the hubs in relation to the trailing arms vs. torsion beam)
- Donor PTU (transfer case) from 1.5/1.6 ecoboost models of the Fusion, Escape/Kuga, Flex, etc. could potentially bolt to the sigma styled PowerShift/6MT's? Having a bit of difficulty being able to tell just from pics though, might make a run to the local pick-n-pull to see for sure...

This leaves us the previously mentioned hurdles of relocating the fuel tank, evap components, exhaust, sourcing axles, and running the electronically controlled clutch actuator of the rear diff. Most of these are somewhat trivial things to find solutions for when you run a fab/performance shop, but the axles are a bit outside my wheel house.

There is always the option of taking the 1.5t/1.6t transmission with the PTU from the donor car as a whole assembly and swapping it into the Fiesta platform but as I'm sure most of you guys like your 6MT's I suspect thats an unpopular notion. As my SE already has a DCT unit, its less a concern for me personally.

Curious to hear if @Dialcaliper or @LilPocketRocket have made any headway on theorycrafting/fabrication.

You have a DCT on an SE? is this a rally car or what's the info on that. Also, wouldn't the easiest way for an AWD conversion be to buy an AWD with a similar wheel base then plop the fiesta body on top.

 

[Jabbit]

You have a DCT on an SE? is this a rally car or what's the info on that. Also, wouldn't the easiest way for an AWD conversion be to buy an AWD with a similar wheel base then plop the fiesta body on top.

Automatic Focus/Fiesta models were dual clutch from Ford. It's a terrible transmission. I own a Focus.

 

[WannabeST]

Automatic Focus/Fiesta models were dual clutch from Ford. It's a terrible transmission. I own a Focus.

I thought he meant DCT as in a performance DCT not the standard auto lol. My mistake

 

[Jabbit]

I thought he meant DCT as in a performance DCT not the standard auto lol. My mistake

My transmission slips if you lean on it hard in first/second gear. It's a great highway car though. 2012 sedan with 72k miles. Got it for $2.5k about 18 months ago and only put about $300 into it.

 

[Combatspace]

My transmission slips if you lean on it hard in first/second gear. It's a great highway car though. 2012 sedan with 72k miles. Got it for $2.5k about 18 months ago and only put about $300 into it.

I've beat the crap out of mine since new and now have nearly 120k on it. Regular service, spirited driving and indulging the ghost in the machine have kept this little thing going strong. I'm not saying its the best transmission in the world, as the class action lawsuit suggests otherwise, but somehow this thing has managed to impress me with its resilience despite its reputation.

@WannabeST : Technically, the easiest way to make it AWD would just to buy an EcoSport and call it. This idea isn't about easy. Its about fun, silly, quirky, custom fun. The fact that there are OEM components that would expedite that process is a bonus.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Sorry for reviving an old thread here, but doing a bit of research on potentially doing some silly things to my 2015 SE. For context, I am a fabricator and mechanic working out of a shop in Virginia, USA.

So far, my little armchair research has yielded the following:
- Rear IRS subframe assembly from AWD ecosport is possibly a bolt-on affair with some modification/fabrication for height adjustments (namely IIRC the placement of the hubs in relation to the trailing arms vs. torsion beam)
- Donor PTU (transfer case) from 1.5/1.6 ecoboost models of the Fusion, Escape/Kuga, Flex, etc. could potentially bolt to the sigma styled PowerShift/6MT's? Having a bit of difficulty being able to tell just from pics though, might make a run to the local pick-n-pull to see for sure...

This leaves us the previously mentioned hurdles of relocating the fuel tank, evap components, exhaust, sourcing axles, and running the electronically controlled clutch actuator of the rear diff. Most of these are somewhat trivial things to find solutions for when you run a fab/performance shop, but the axles are a bit outside my wheel house.

There is always the option of taking the 1.5t/1.6t transmission with the PTU from the donor car as a whole assembly and swapping it into the Fiesta platform but as I'm sure most of you guys like your 6MT's I suspect thats an unpopular notion. As my SE already has a DCT unit, its less a concern for me personally.

Curious to hear if @Dialcaliper or @LilPocketRocket have made any headway on theorycrafting/fabrication.

Haven't really thought about it much, but after seeing your post, I did see there was a 2014-2019 Mondeo in the UK available with a 2.0L Diesel, 6-speed manual, AWD. Unclear if it will mate to the 1.6L engines, and there may be some issues with the final drive/ratios for a diesel engine being a horrible match for a 1.6T

 

[Ryankelly1101]

The biggest problem with most electric conversions is the weight and size of the battery. A Leaf for example has an underfloor battery pack that weighs near 1000lb which will pretty much kill the handling if you can even find a place to mount it. The motor is small but the inverter takes up a decent amount of space too. It’s also hard to substitute a smaller battery because there’s not really a standard battery voltage between cars.

Unless you plan to completely swap the drivetrain, you’d be better off with using some wrecked Tesla or other battery modules, and custom electronics to run the motor(s)

I currently have a 2012 ford fiesta that i rally and after the last rally the engine has lost power and is down compression in one cylinder so i have been looking into engine swaps and it just so happens i have a awd manual honda element. The wheel bases are SUPER close. The element is 101 while the fiesta is 97. The track widths are quiet different but that doesnt bother me. But before i go any further would this be a good drive train swap or would the elements awd system not be a good candidate for rallying? Dont want to be in the shop more than driving.
Ive never posted in a forum before. Thank you for your guys time.