Brake pads and "feel" of brakes?

[rpt50]

I really like the way the brakes on my old NA miata worked. You had to press the pedal hard (certainly harder than other modern cars), but there was a direct and linear relationship--the harder you pressed, the quicker the stop. My fiesta ST however, feels a lot more like other cars in my driveway. The brakes seem "touchy" compared to the miata, and they don't have the progressive feel. Is this something than can be addressed with brake pads, or is it more a function of modern anti-lock brakes?

 

[dL_ST]

You can change this feel with brake pads, you are still at the whim of modern ABS systems.

For example, I run a street pad when I daily drive my Fist and a track pad for HPDE.

Track pads are like an on and off switch. Very touchy, high amount of grab, and a slight amount of pedal pressure can stop you pretty well.

Street pads, not nearly as touchy, there is progression in the pedal when braking..

 

[M-Sport fan]

Track pads are like an on and off switch. Very touchy, high amount of grab, and a slight amount of pedal pressure can stop you pretty well.

ONLY when hot/'up to temp' or even when cold?

 

[dL_ST]

ONLY when hot/'up to temp' or even when cold?

BP-30 pads come up to temp pretty quickly. 2-3 city blocks and it's good.

Tracking, first turn that you have to actually hit your brakes and it's good.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I have Carbotech 1521s....good pad....not grabby...seems to grab harder and harder the more you push the braake pedal.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[scotman]

If what you are seeking is a firmer pedal, youll want to get a braided stainless steel brake hose kit. Many would be shocked at how much stock brake hoses expand under pressure.

 

[M-Sport fan]

If what you are seeking is a firmer pedal, youll want to get a braided stainless steel brake hose kit. Many would be shocked at how much stock brake hoses expand under pressure.

I've heard many calling BS on this actually being noticeable, but I agree with you 200% on the above.

 

[scotman]

I bet anybody a cheeseburger that the majority of those who call it BS never even drove a car that had them on it to have an informed opinion.

 

[Plainrt]

I bet anybody a cheeseburger that the majority of those who call it BS never even drove a car that had them on it to have an informed opinion.

I also bet a double cheeseburger that you see many more aftermarket brake lines fail vs stock ones..........

 

[scotman]

Everything has a failure rate. Including O.E. the O.P. described the condition that he was trying to change. Those components are known to create a firmer pedal as part of their design. Their primary function is greater abraision and heat resistance.

 

[Plainrt]

Everything has a failure rate. Including O.E. the O.P. described the condition that he was trying to change. Those components are known to create a firmer pedal as part of their design. Their primary function is greater abraision and heat resistance.

I believe a different brake pad would be better answer. I had hawk 5.0 pads and they needed more pedal effort and didn't have that Instant grab.

 

[Nightcrew13]

I believe a larger master cylinder is better...anyone have access to a focus or escape to compare?

 

[rpt50]

I definitely don't want a firmer brake pedal. What I would like is more progression and a better correlation between how hard you press, and how hard the car brakes. My ST is certainly not the "light switch" feel that some cars have, but it is far from the linear and progressive feel that my miata had (sold it). Brake pads may help, but I probably won't do anything immediately. It just rolled over 3K miles so it is still new.

 

[Joker328]

Yeah, any of the performance street (e.g., Hawk 5.0, Carbotech 1521s), street/race pads, or something ceramic will probably be less grabby on the street. Our pads are really aggressive and designed to operate well in normal driving and some light track/autocross duty, so they grab right away, even in the cold. The more you get to a track oriented pad or something that is designed to be a compromise between street/track/low-dust, the less initial bite you will have at regular street temps, though it will have better performance as it heats up a bit before fading off at higher temps. Hawk has a chart somewhere that shows the curves for all of their pad compounds.

Personally, I found that my brakes were easier to modulate once I made them work a bit with a paced session on track. I think getting some heat into them takes away some of that grabby feeling you get at low speeds. See if you can find some open road to build some heat in them and see if that makes them a little easier to live with. They are good pads for what they are, so it'd be a shame to waste them.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I definitely don't want a firmer brake pedal. What I would like is more progression and a better correlation between how hard you press, and how hard the car brakes. My ST is certainly not the "light switch" feel that some cars have, but it is far from the linear and progressive feel that my miata had (sold it). Brake pads may help, but I probably won't do anything immediately. It just rolled over 3K miles so it is still new.

I just rolled over 6K miles, so it will be a while until I replace them, but I supposedly have the 'softer', less aggressive pads since I ordered the car with the all season tires, so I'm not sure if they last as long as (or longer than??) the more track capable pads that came on the summer tire equipped cars or not.

In any case, when it comes time, I will probably go with whatever the G-LOC equivalent is of the Carbotech AX6s for the fronts, and whatever the Bobcat/1521 equivalent is for the back.

 

[scotman]

Fiesta ST and Miata were engineered with different missions...

I definitely don't want a firmer brake pedal. What I would like is more progression and a better correlation between how hard you press, and how hard the car brakes. My ST is certainly not the "light switch" feel that some cars have, but it is far from the linear and progressive feel that my miata had (sold it). Brake pads may help, but I probably won't do anything immediately. It just rolled over 3K miles so it is still new.

The Miata is a purpose made sports car. It has near perfect weight distribution. It was never intended to haul much cargo and or more than one passenger. I would have loved to been able to just do my mass correction, select the appropriate tires and go play. But, once again the omnipresent stability controls prevent me from installing a driver adjustble brake proportioning valve. I am almost certain this little wonder would trigger an immense and violent response from the SCS in any mode. The Fiesta has that practical car aspect baked pretty deeply into its DNA. The amount of adjustabilty one could have in an IT class road racing car is just a bit more than Fiesta will tolerate Inexpensively.

 

[M-Sport fan]

But, once again the omnipresent stability controls prevent me from installing a driver adjustble brake proportioning valve. I am almost certain this little wonder would trigger an immense and violent response from the SCS in any mode.

Thanks for bringing this up, as I never even considered that as a factor in negating the use of a bias valve on this platform.

 

[scotman]

I have never seen a discussion of an adjustable prop-valve on these forums. And thats ok. Because if people have even the most scant knowledge of the stability control system on Fiesta they can surmise that dicking with brake line pressures would affect system response. It would be my guess that engine power would be reduced to nil and every scs related mil light would be lit up.