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Cranking No Spark No Code

ASAP_aSTro

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#1
So my Fiesta is only cranking and won't start and I'm not sure why, here's what I've done so far:
-Changed spark plugs
-Changed coils
-Changed fuse/relay for ignition and checked all fuses in the bay
-Changed the crank position sensor
-Checked all 3 grounds, the battery terminal, the transmission, and the one behind the battery
-Sprayed starter fluid in the intake via the port on manifold to see if it would turn over
-Retimed the engine

I've used a DCT scanner and I'm not getting any codes, would anyone have anything else I could check or go over.
 


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ASAP_aSTro

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Thread Starter #4
Recent discovery, so I connected a test light to a ground and checked the male connector on the crankshaft position sensor. The light doesn't turn on for any of the connection points and when I touch the purple and yellow point I hear a buzzing like a motor, not sure if that normal. Would anyone know what that means?
 


Intuit

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#6
Oye Sam4 has a funny bone. (may be needed for frustrating situations)

As "smart" or thoroughly engineered as the ECU is, it seems like a certain amount of cranking with no crank position sense would eventually set a code?

1707792097230.png

CPP = Clutch Pedal Position

So by the fact that it's cranking, it's at least getting through the above.
Question is, would the engine still crank without authorization from the security system; or would it allow crank but just not start?

1707792346747.png
1707792435267.png
 


Intuit

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#8
<<........... The PCM disengages the starter motor (relay actually) once ............ a set crank time is exceeded ....................>>

Before reading the codes, allow the PCM time to stop the crank on its own. Perhaps this will set the code?
 


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Portland, OR
#9
I'll try a few more things in the next few days, including possibly cranking until the 'Cranking Time Exceeded' message appears.

Here's my no-start problem history:

Car was running normally, a little bit sluggish lately. I was thinking, probably tune-up related.
60k miles. I've owned the car since 5k.

Brake pedal 'froze' while driving. Felt like it had 20% force and super short travel.
I was close enough to home that I downshifted and limped it back. I had to almost stand on the pedal for the car to stop.

Looking at the forums, people say it could be something like a damaged ABS valve? I've never had a car with faulty ABS, so I don't recognize anything.
It's different from non-ABS problems I've ran into before, like a caliper sticking or a frozen master cylinder. In those cases, the brakes get hot or lock.

Anyway, I decided to pull an ABS fuse to maybe, force it to reset. I pulled what I thought was the ABS fuse/breaker in the engine-bay fuse box.
Started the car. It ran for 20 seconds or so, then stopped like I pulled a fuel pump fuse accidentally. I replaced the breaker, disconnected the battery for 30 minutes, and tried to go again.
No start at all. Cranks until 'Cranking Time Exceeded', or I dump the clutch with the brake pedal down.

So, I did see a stored P0012 in my INNOVA code scanner. It's been coming up before oil changes and then going away.
I'm not counting this as a recent code because the car would drive with it up.

Here's what I've done so far to diagnose the start issue:

1.) Removed and replaced both VVT solenoids with CarQuest new.
2.) Removed and replaced crankshaft position sensor with CarQuest new.
3.) Cleaned the main negative battery cable frame attaching point.
4.) Listened for fuel pump power at key-on, well... 'button on'. Sounds like I hear the prime. Fuel gauge reads at full mark.
5.) My INNOVA has an OBD output with a live-data trend line for fuel pressure. It does seem like it reads a very high fuel pressure reading.
6.) I don't see any 'RPM' number on the OBD live output while cranking. Should it be... like 5 or 10 or something while the starter spins? Or is zero RPM normal?
7.) Tried pulling the air intake after the MAF and dumping a huge amount of starting fluid in, pressing it closed, and cranking. No change.
8.) Thought maybe the timing belt broke. I pulled the oil cap and can see the cam spinning while the engine cranks.

I'd like to know if there's spark. Tomorrow, I was going to pull a coil with plug, ground it to the engine, and crank.

Any more ideas? I appreciate the help. I will download Forscan and order... looks like a communication adapter. Thanks.
 


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#10
Oh, here's my beast. 2015 Performance Blue.

It's been a great car, one of my favorites. Only has needed oil changes and brakes until now.

Screenshot 2024-02-12 222402.png
 


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#12
So what was the FUSE you pulled?
This is the fuse... at least I think it's a fuse.

I'm used to looking at the traditional blade fuses. These fat ones don't have test blades sticking out.
Doesn't seem like a breaker, though.

So it was this one: F1. Interesting that the online diagram has two different entries for position 1.
Both stability control and ABS are listed.
I figured pulling this one would possibly cause the ABS system to reset or not be active.

Car stopped running. Put the fuse back, no start. Might be coincidental, or I screwed something up. We'll find out.

I read about ABS last night. I see some people are testing the pump by forcing the ABS computer to run a specific diagnostic test?
Anyway, maybe I should have done that instead of the fuse pull.

Screenshot 2024-02-13 125845.png Screenshot 2024-02-13 132821.png
Screenshot 2024-02-13 133113.png Screenshot 2024-02-13 133147.png
 


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Intuit

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#14
So, I did see a stored P0012 in my INNOVA code scanner. It's been coming up before oil changes and then going away.
I'm not counting this as a recent code because the car would drive with it up.
Because this prevents others from using time to look it up...
1707875801366.png

8.) Thought maybe the timing belt broke. I pulled the oil cap and can see the cam spinning while the engine cranks.
Could be on to something here. From prior experiences with a belted engine, the belt never really broke. It would loose a tooth or few and/or slip a tooth or few. Changes in performance and possibly rough idle are what tipped me off to check it. (aggressive on the accelerator, this typically occurred well before the manual's set maintenance period) That was a non-interference engine however. Think maybe Ford programmed the ECU to detect slip and disable spark/fuel? Can't detect slip without cranking it though.

Instead of looking for belt break, look at the cam/crank timing marks.

.
 


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#15
Could be on to something here. From prior experiences with a belted engine, the belt never really broke. It would loose a tooth or few and/or slip a tooth or few. Changes in performance and possibly rough idle are what tipped me off to check it. (aggressive on the accelerator, this typically occurred well before the manual's set maintenance period) That was a non-interference engine however. Think maybe Ford programmed the ECU to detect slip and disable spark/fuel? Can't detect slip without cranking it though.

Instead of looking for belt break, look at the cam/crank timing marks.
Okay. Hmm.

You know what's interesting, when the engine is spinning freely with the starter cranking, it has kind of a 'low compression' sound to it.

Hard to describe. Almost like plugs were pulled, you know? But I've never heard this particular motor run without starting right away.
Like I said, cam does spin. But if it slipped a tooth, maybe it's now throwing that code that disables starting, and compression changed because valves are opening at a different time? Who knows.

I will have the Forscan reader tomorrow. Also checking for spark tonight.
I'll pull some more parts later this week and check the timing. Need to do some homework on how to do that on this motor.
 


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#16
Well. Seems like there's spark.

I pulled a plug and coil, and rested the plug base on a bracket.
Tested voltage with the multimeter from battery pos. and the bracket going to the meter. 12 volts.

IMG_6109.jpg

See video attached.

Next step will be the Forscan app, I guess.
 


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TyphoonFiST

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#17
Do you have an owners manual? If so does it have a fuse layout diagram? What listing does it show for the fuse you pulled?
 


TyphoonFiST

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#18
FeloPr and i both had timing belt issues. He got an intake P0016 intake cam correlation and i got a p0017 Exhaust cam correlation codes. Both engines did run but down on power and idle was loapy* His and my engine both got All new timing component Kits from Fomoco and Timing belts done. Both are back up and running currently. But ours both would start that's the kicker.
 


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#19
Do you have an owners manual? If so does it have a fuse layout diagram? What listing does it show for the fuse you pulled?
No, not yet. I looked for a PDF or online download, can't seem to find anything that looks like a pro product.

I found the fuse diagrams online. Check my post above. I believe it was 'F1' in the engine compartment fuse box.
 


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#20
FeloPr and i both had timing belt issues. He got an intake P0016 intake cam correlation and i got a p0017 Exhaust cam correlation codes. Both engines did run but down on power and idle was loapy* His and my engine both got All new timing component Kits from Fomoco and Timing belts done. Both are back up and running currently. But ours both would start that's the kicker.
I'm getting a feeling.
Never had a timing belt issue on any vehicle.
65k, but I definitely get on it, as a daily driver.

It would be weird to have a timing belt jump a tooth at about the same time (!) as ABS valve issue and a fuse pull. Well, never say it can't happen.

Need to dig deeper.

My car has definitely been down on power lately, almost like... extra boost lag. I put it down to tune-up being past due.

That's encouraging that you guys were able to get it all sorted out... if it turns out to be similar.
 


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