Cranking No Spark No Code

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So, my adapter from Amazon came in same-day. How about that.
I got the OBDLink EX.

Got 'er installed with drivers. Installed Forscan. Read the data.... and...

It says no DTC. I ran the starter again until it stopped automatically. No code.

I guess, maybe tomorrow is looking like, check the timing belt and maybe do a last-minute fuel pump fuse/relay check. Or check voltage at the fuel pump connector.
I really think, if there's spark, spraying a 3-second blast of starting fluid into the intake should've made it stumble or do anything.

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate the tips. Forgot to mention.

 

[Intuit]

Yeesh; there are 37 steps to the manual's timing belt procedure.

Attaching the procedures.

 

[Intuit]

BTW, on that prior engine, I failed to tighten the crankshaft damper bolt to torque spec. It backed off. The crankshaft key wore a widening notch in the damper. Since the engine read timing from that damper, it dynamically advanced the spark timing. At one point that 88HP engine ran like a BEAST... but eventually the notch wore wide enough that it lost all torque; had to run 4,000 RPM just to barely get moving off the line on a slight incline. Lesson is, make sure to follow that torque spec and use a bit of red thread-locker.

 

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BTW, on that prior engine, I failed to tighten the crankshaft damper bolt to torque spec. It backed off. The crankshaft key wore a widening notch in the damper. Since the engine read timing from that damper, it dynamically advanced the spark timing. At one point that 88HP engine ran like a BEAST... but eventually the notch wore wide enough that it lost all torque; had to run 4,000 RPM just to barely get moving off the line on a slight incline. Lesson is, make sure to follow that torque spec and use a bit of red thread-locker.

Hey, thanks for the instructions. Yep, looks easy! (sarcasm)

I'm not a mechanic, more like average DIY level for my age.
Most recent engine work, I replaced 4.6 mustang OHC camshafts, and put a new harmonic damper on our family 2007 Ranger 4.0.
All my old work was iron-block 5.0 and 2.3, basic rebuilds and R&R engine/trans/whatever.

That's crazy that the Fiesta damper walked around on you like that, good thing it didn't launch through the hood and into orbit! Ha ha.

I've never used Loctite on a crankshaft pulley bolt. I think that Ranger had a torque-to-yield. Maybe the Mustang 4.6 was the same?
Anyway, I will be extra careful. Appreciate the tip.

Probably going to be homework time. I'll order parts after I get visual confirmation of a timing issue.
Probably will tear it down to do an inspection this weekend.

By the way, I'm new to Forscan. Dinosaur.
I added some fuel-related, I guess they are sensor tags, to the dashboard and did a real-time with the key off.
I do see, what says a 'low pressure fuel pump' value and a 'fuel rail pressure'.
I wonder if this is enough evidence to say that the in-tank pump is working normally and the injectors are firing?

 

[Intuit]

I believe the ECU does monitor those parameters and should set a code if anything is out of spec. Should hear the injectors briefly fire once, just from opening the driver door on a cold engine. Lighted USB-C bore cams that plug into Android cell phones were relatively inexpensive on Amazon. (used mine to peep inside the low mileage motorcycle tank prior to purchase) Since you already have a spark plugs out, may just be able to stick a long strip of paper down there to see if it comes out damp.

crazy that the Fiesta damper walked around on you like that

Prior vehicle... not a Fiesta. Closest thing I've had to touch to the engine on the FiST so far is replacing the passenger side engine mount. At least initially, I loathe working on cars and mainly do it because we can't trust others to do it with the same level of care and interest; more often that not, it's not done right. When I screw something up, I know precisely who to blame and where to look to un-screw up what was screwed up.

 

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I believe the ECU does monitor those parameters and should set a code if anything is out of spec. Should hear the injectors briefly fire once, just from opening the driver door on a cold engine. Lighted USB-C bore cams that plug into Android cell phones were relatively inexpensive on Amazon. (used mine to peep inside the low mileage motorcycle tank prior to purchase) Since you already have a spark plugs out, may just be able to stick a long strip of paper down there to see if it comes out damp.

I might try this.
At this point, I'm scratching my head.
I see spark. There should be fuel, and if not, starting fluid should have a minor effect, at least.
My monkey brain got confused and I forgot that there's a whole five miles of air intake plumbing to the turbo and intercooler and back into the front of the engine.
Oops. So, I don't know if spraying any fluid into the intake pipe after the air filter box is the right way to test, being that the particles have to travel a huge distance.
I tried pulling what looks like a quick-release vacuum line in the front of the intake manifold, and spraying, reconnecting. Still no stumble.

So, looking at Forscan... I added some tags, I guess they are called PIDs in auto terms? Reading about the fuel system. Low pressure from in-tank electric pump, high pressure from a second camshaft-driven mechanical fuel pump on the engine? Okay.

Found a tag for ENG_CRANK, and one for RPM, and TP, %.
Key on, throttle position shows a value moving with pedal press.

During a crank engine time span:
FLP, kPa is about 720 or 104psi. Low pressure pump result, it would seem.
FRP, kPa is about 10,000 or 1,450psi. Fuel rail, or high pressure pump result, it would seem. I wonder if these cars really have 1500psi here? Wow. Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong.
ENG_CRANK is Active.
RPM goes to 190 or so, that would seem to indicate, to me, that that crankshaft position sensor is pushing normal data.

Cam timing problem still on the table.

Closest thing I've had to touch to the engine on the FiST so far is replacing the passenger side engine mount. At least initially, I loathe working on cars and mainly do it because we can't trust others to do it with the same level of care and interest; more often that not, it's not done right. When I screw something up, I know precisely who to blame and where to look to un-screw up what was screwed up.

Sounds totally reasonable.

 

[Intuit]

Cam timing problem still on the table.

Watching from afar.

 

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Watching from afar.

Don't put it past me to make a dumb repair mistake, either!

I forgot to bolt a hood down one time and went for a test drive. That was fun.

 

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Alright.

Time for a status update.

I suspect a mechanical engine problem. I think the timing belt's tensioner broke or changed position, or the belt jumped some teeth.

1.) A cam, visible through the oil cap hole, spins.
2.) The spark plugs appear normal to me, except for being wet with a fuel smell.
3.) The engine has a low-compression sound to it when cranking.
4.) Forscan live data displayed data values for RPM, low fuel pressure and high fuel pressure, while cranking.
5.) Compression test on cylinder 1 was difficult to do, because the rubber type of compression tester line couldn't be tightened all the way, but it was still low and there was no puff when partially covered.
6.) I used a phone bore-scope and looked in cylinder 1 while cranking. No piston damage that I could see, but the piston was wet with fuel.
7.) There's a visible spark at plug 1, when the coil and plug are out of the motor, and grounded.

I plan to tow the car to another place where I can work on it in better conditions.

Next step will be to pull the timing cover and inspect the belt and tensioner.
Quick google search returns a non-interference engine for the DOHC 1.6. That would be nice. Edit: It appears to be an interference-type engine. Will possibly be dealing with valve train damage, if this is the case.
One final thought. It's strange, if there's spark and some fuel, that I don't get any backfires or pops. Makes me have second-thoughts about my testing.

Thanks, everybody.
Appreciate the suggestions from folks to get Forscan and the cheap bore-scope!

Pics here are of cylinder 1 and the piston dome.

 

[Capri to ST]

Alright.

Time for a status update.

I suspect a mechanical engine problem. I think the timing belt's tensioner broke or changed position, or the belt jumped some teeth.

1.) A cam, visible through the oil cap hole, spins.
2.) The spark plugs appear normal to me, except for being wet with a fuel smell.
3.) The engine has a low-compression sound to it when cranking.
4.) Forscan live data displayed data values for RPM, low fuel pressure and high fuel pressure, while cranking.
5.) Compression test on cylinder 1 was difficult to do, because the rubber type of compression tester line couldn't be tightened all the way, but it was still low and there was no puff when partially covered.
6.) I used a phone bore-scope and looked in cylinder 1 while cranking. No piston damage that I could see, but the piston was wet with fuel.
7.) There's a visible spark at plug 1, when the coil and plug are out of the motor, and grounded.

I plan to tow the car to another place where I can work on it in better conditions.

Next step will be to pull the timing cover and inspect the belt and tensioner.
Quick google search returns a non-interference engine for the DOHC 1.6. That would be nice.
One final thought. It's strange, if there's spark and some fuel, that I don't get any backfires or pops. Makes me have second-thoughts about my testing.

Thanks, everybody.

Pics here are of cylinder 1 and the piston dome.

View attachment 60224 View attachment 60225
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Good luck, sounds like you're doing a good job on diagnosis.
I just wanted to add that I'm fairly sure this is an interference engine, almost positive actually. When I was trying to figure out if it was I did see references online to it not being one, but ended up concluding that it was from other sources I found.Just passing that on for whatever help it is.
Here's a thread where I posed this question, and it was established pretty definitively that it is an interference engine.
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/is-our-engine-an-interference-engine.19479/

 

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Good luck, sounds like you're doing a good job on diagnosis.
I just wanted to add that I'm fairly sure this is an interference engine, almost positive actually. When I was trying to figure out if it was I did see references online to it not being one, but ended up concluding that it was from other sources I found.Just passing that on for whatever help it is.
Here's a thread where I posed this question, and it was established pretty definitively that it is an interference engine.

Whoa.

Okay. I agree... that sounds definitive to me. Appreciate the link and encouragement.

Well, that changes my perspective.
If it turns out to have jumped teeth, then the valvetrain might be damaged.

You know what's surprising... I was in the driver's seat, was backing the car up, and it stopped. No bang, or clunk, or grind.
I kind of expected to hear a mechanical sound if the valves contacted the pistons. Maybe that's not how it goes down.

 

[Intuit]

I've dealt with an aggressively designed short-stroke racing engine and retarding it a tooth or two didn't impact the valves. Hoping you're okay though, it is a surprise that it doesn't at least try to run, given that you've verified spark and fuel. From prior experiences on different engines, problems with timing may be most apparent with open loop operation. @Perfblue15 said his was trashed being just one tooth off... didn't say advanced or retarded... but I do hope that is incorrect. Both prior engines I've dealt with, the timing mark alignments weren't perfect meaning, it was fairly easy for a layman to be one tooth off. Hope our 1.6L EcoBoost is marked better than those...

 

[Capri to ST]

Whoa.

Okay. I agree... that sounds definitive to me. Appreciate the link and encouragement.

Well, that changes my perspective.
If it turns out to have jumped teeth, then the valvetrain might be damaged.

You know what's surprising... I was in the driver's seat, was backing the car up, and it stopped. No bang, or clunk, or grind.
I kind of expected to hear a mechanical sound if the valves contacted the pistons. Maybe that's not how it goes down.

I did once break a timing belt on an interference engine, a Honda Prelude, without damage happening, so it is possible. It broke quite early for some reason, way earlier than the maintenance interval, so I wasn't expecting it.I was coasting down a highway on ramp, not under much load when it broke, so that may be why there was no damage.So at least in my experience, there's not always damage if you break a timing belt on an interference engine, although I realize I got pretty lucky.

 

[Intuit]

@Capri to ST - Cam springs must've set the cams at just the right spot so none of the valves were fully protruded? Must be a frig'n miracle LoL... should've immediately left the vehicle to play a couple lottery tickets.

 

[Capri to ST]

@Capri to ST - Cam springs must've set the cams at just the right spot so none of the valves were fully protruded? Must be a frig'n miracle LoL... should've immediately left the vehicle to play a couple lottery tickets.

Thanks, that's good to know. They told me at the shop that put a new timing belt on back then that I was lucky , but I didn't know how lucky at that time. I wasn't aware of what an interference engine was until then, and since then I've been hyper careful.
I'm going to have my timing belt done when the car's 8 years old next summer on my mechanic friend's advice, even though the mileage will be quite low at that point. Better safe than sorry.

 

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Thanks, that's good to know. They told me at the shop that put a new timing belt on back then that I was lucky , but I didn't know how lucky at that time. I wasn't aware of what an interference engine was until then, and since then I've been hyper careful.
I'm going to have my timing belt done when the car's 8 years old next summer on my mechanic friend's advice, even though the mileage will be quite low at that point. Better safe than sorry.

Again, mine's at 65k. I'm going to wait to see the final evidence before calling it.
I'm mentally preparing myself for bent valves, if not I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I haven't been drag-racing it or banging it off the rev-limiter.
But... I definitely push it hard. Lot of high-speed corners and open throttle when it's reasonable.

 

[Mega ST]

Do a leak down test. That will tell you if any valves are bent. You'll need to put each cylinder on the compression stroke when testing. Proper way is to remove that camshafts.
The previous sluggish running is a possible sign that timing jumped. I'm almost at 100k miles on orig timing components. Don't know why your components would fail so early.