Does anyone Rallyx their ST?

[Dialcaliper]

Possibly not, if you run mostly smooth courses with mild to non-existent compressions/dips/jumps.
But, all of those are almost 25" tall, which is way out of range to not expect any rubbing at all.

The Cooper Evolution Winters seem to have the most 'open block' rally tire-like tread pattern of the lot, and they are XL rated, which generally means at least a slightly stronger side wall than the standard load rated donuts.

It looks like 205/50-16, and 195/55-16 winter tires do not exist, but at least three 195/50-16s do.

195/55-16 is actually a pretty common size for snow tires, especially in Europe (it’s even a factory winter tire size on BMW’s and Mini’s). Tire Rack doesn’t have a lot in that size right now, but it’s worth keeping in mind that Winter tires have a seasonal production schedule and new batches come out in late fall, much like how 200TW tires are usually made and go on sale in the spring (in time for race/autocross season)

For winter tires, I’m running a set of Continental TS870’s in that size (195/55-16) and at stock ride height, I have not had any rubbing issues with 16x6.5 et38 rims that put the outer tire face right where the factory wheel/tires sit. The only thing I had to do was trim and put low profile nuts on my mountune mudflaps in the front.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Ok sweet. I really appreciate all of this man. I actually have a one time 30% off deal with a Nokian rep I scored on a road rallye that I haven’t used yet. I reached out to him and he’s checking on his stock! So last question (for now hahaha)…
So the Nordmam 7s are your choice over the R5, but would the R5 still be your choice over the Continentals?

Personally, I would probably take the Conti over the R5s, mainly due to the more square 'biting' shoulders on turn-in, albeit they are both more 'closed block/small void' winters than the Nordman 7s, or Cooper Evos (IF those were available in a usable size).

But asidrive IS correct, the surface will dictate what type of tread pattern works best, both in stock class winters, or in the upper/modded class gravel tires (and for actual STAGE rallying of course).

 

[stash3630]

The 195/50r16 size has been working well for me. I'm currently using a Toyo GSI-6. The Surface is going to make a difference in the tire. When I was racing in Utah, big open blocks worked well in the sandy surface. Now in the Chicago/Milwaukee region, my more worn-out winters have been very fast but in the mud they were really bad. I haven't seen it yet but rumor has it on a hot dry hard-packed surface, a 200TW autocross tire can be fast in the afternoon.

beauty pic!

i have been kinda wondering about that. They wet the course down as much as they can, but when it’s hot (last race it was 111 degrees) it dries out so fast, you’re really not ever in the slop unless you run right after the water truck.

I’d always scoff at movies where cars were making peeling out noises in the dirt, but after last months race I can attest it can and was happening; often. We were leaving tire marks on the hard packed dirt even. All that said, I think July desert 111 heat is bit of an anomaly and the location does move around a bit and I think most of the stock 2wd class is running snows.

But that was my first event and my FiST wasn’t set up yet so I entered my AWD daily stock automatic transmission outback and almost podiumed. I paced some STI’s and beat some other STI’s and Mitsubishi Evos. Point is, I was on these new tech Michelin CrossClimate 2’s. I’ve always laughed at the phrase “all season tire” but these things are the truth. They wear well and are pretty decent on snow. Anyway just thought I’d share that anecdote.

https://www.michelinman.com/auto/tires/michelin-crossclimate2

 

[stash3630]

The 195/50r16 size has been working well for me. I'm currently using a Toyo GSI-6. The Surface is going to make a difference in the tire. When I was racing in Utah, big open blocks worked well in the sandy surface. Now in the Chicago/Milwaukee region, my more worn-out winters have been very fast but in the mud they were really bad. I haven't seen it yet but rumor has it on a hot dry hard-packed surface, a 200TW autocross tire can be fast in the afternoon.

Hey friends! Hitting this thread again with another wheel/tire question. Any thoughts on when I go down to the 16" if I were to also increase width to 7.5" at the same time; eg a 16x7.5 ? Do you think I would have fitment or rubbing issues with an added half inch of width? I'm thinking with our surfaces out here wider might be better.

@Reaper @M-Sport fan @tri-pedaler @asidrive

 

[Dialcaliper]

Hey friends! Hitting this thread again with another wheel/tire question. Any thoughts on when I go down to the 16" if I were to also increase width to 7.5" at the same time; eg a 16x7.5 ? Do you think I would have fitment or rubbing issues with an added half inch of width? I'm thinking with our surfaces out here wider might be better.

@Reaper @M-Sport fan @tri-pedaler @asidrive

You shouldn’t have much problem with fitment - 215/45’s on 16x8 is fairly common and doesn’t rub and at stock ride height you’ll probably be okay even with a slightly taller tire. Just watch out though, most 195’s fit 5.5-7.0” rims. You can go to 205, but I don’t think it will be a positive thing going wider in most off-road conditions.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Do the stock class rules even allow you to go to 7.5" wide wheels when the factory wheels are only 7.0" wide?

Like Dialcaliper has said, a 195 is starting to be stretched a bit on a 7.5" wide wheel, and it would not necessarily be an advantage on dirt/gravel, unless it was always hard packed, smooth clay.

I have 195/60-15 Arctic 12s on my 7x15 Method wheels for winter and working on gravel rallies.

The top level actual stage rally cars when competing on gravel all use 7x15 wheels with 205 section width gravel tires on them.

 

[stash3630]

Do the stock class rules even allow you to go to 7.5" wide wheels when the factory wheels are only 7.0" wide?

Like Dialcaliper has said, a 195 is starting to be stretched a bit on a 7.5" wide wheel, and it would not necessarily be an advantage on dirt/gravel, unless it was always hard packed, smooth clay.

I have 195/60-15 Arctic 12s on my 7x15 Method wheels for winter and working on gravel rallies.

The top level actual stage rally cars when competing on gravel all use 7x15 wheels with 205 section width gravel tires on them.

Stock rules allow within 1"of oem wheel diameter and 0.5" of oem wheel width.

I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to how much a 195 will be stretched vs when to bump all the way up to a 215 like @Dialcaliper is talking about. It's a big reason why I'm here. I just don't know where those thresholds are/will be. I did take a quick look and there are a decent selection of 215x45 and 215x50 snow tires out there, so there is that for what it's worth.

I asked a RallyX Veteran who's been racing in the local scene down here for almost 15 years the same FWD skinny vs wide wheel question. I imagine he's somewhat cagey, not trying to help me build a car faster than his, but his response was, "Skinnier is better when you're trying to dig down to the hard surface. Not sure that really applies to the surfaces we drive on."

 

[tri-pedaler]

Stock rules allow within 1"of oem wheel diameter and 0.5" of oem wheel width.

I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to how much a 195 will be stretched vs when to bump all the way up to a 215 like @Dialcaliper is talking about. It's a big reason why I'm here. I just don't know where those thresholds are/will be. I did take a quick look and there are a decent selection of 215x45 and 215x50 snow tires out there, so there is that for what it's worth.

I asked a RallyX Veteran who's been racing in the local scene down here for almost 15 years the same FWD skinny vs wide wheel question. I imagine he's somewhat cagey, not trying to help me build a car faster than his, but his response was, "Skinnier is better when you're trying to dig down to the hard surface. Not sure that really applies to the surfaces we drive on."

Not sure, though interesting you can add .5” width (cf. autox HS rules, where you can’t…). Even if you’re running a 205 on 7.5” wheels, I’d imagine the extra wheel width would give greater support, but I don’t do loose surface stuff…

195 sounds like too much of a stretch

 

[Dialcaliper]

To add another point, it’s almost never a significant improvement to run a skinny tire on a rim width larger than the design range when compared with a slightly wider tire that is compatible with that rim. Not to mention that the debeading issue that is debatable on the street can be somewhat of a greater hazard on a rough off-road course.

Gravel tires are usually better in the middle of the width range. 195 should be a good size for a car this light, and unless you really want to run a wider rim because that’s what you can locate with a 205, there’s no reason to go wider.

Even in WRC, they limit to 15x7 rims and 205/65-15 gravel tires. The giant flares they allow are only useful for wide track width and wider tarmac tires.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Even for tarmac, they are limited to 18x8s with not very wide tires on them (like a very square shouldered, short side walled, ~210mm tread width).

They do push the track width out as far as the rule limits allow in Rally 1/Rally2, with all of the suspension geometry adjusted to perform perfectly with that increase, hence the bodywork to cover the wheels/tires.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Not sure, though interesting you can add .5” width (cf. autox HS rules, where you can’t…).

Yes, that is exactly why I was asking.

 

[stash3630]

To add another point, it’s almost never a significant improvement to run a skinny tire on a rim width larger than the design range when compared with a slightly wider tire that is compatible with that rim. Not to mention that the debeading issue that is debatable on the street can be somewhat of a greater hazard on a rough off-road course.

Gravel tires are usually better in the middle of the width range. 195 should be a good size for a car this light, and unless you really want to run a wider rim because that’s what you can locate with a 205, there’s no reason to go wider.

Even in WRC, they limit to 15x7 rims and 205/65-15 gravel tires. The giant flares they allow are only useful for wide track width and wider tarmac tires.

Thanks for this response as well as yours too @M-Sport fan . So much great info here!

You both are right on the money. I also looked up the specs on the Fiesta Rally 4 and the widest wheel they run is 7" even on tarmac. So no 7.5" for me. I also want to say how much I appreciate y'all helping me out thus far. Kinda hard to believe how much I've learned in such a short period thanks to you guys and this forum. Big thanks!

Attaching pics of the Fiesta R1 and Rally 4 specs below if anyone's curious!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Thanks for this response as well as yours too @M-Sport fan . So much great info here!

You both are right on the money. I also looked up the specs on the Fiesta Rally 4 and the widest wheel they run is 7" even on tarmac. So no 7.5" for me. I also want to say how much I appreciate y'all helping me out thus far. Kinda hard to believe how much I've learned in such a short period thanks to you guys and this forum. Big thanks!

Attaching pics of the Fiesta R1 and Rally 4 specs below if anyone's curious!

There was a time when the R1 cars (which are now labeled as Rally 5, yes VERY confusing!) were NOT allowed to have sequential gearboxes at all, since they were sort of a 'showroom stock' type, 'entry' rally car class.

I guess that the FIA approved the clutch-less shifting for that 'intro class' of cars because they felt that every other class above that one used those transmissions, so the 'beginners' might as well get used to using them in competition.

Even the AWD Rally 3 Fiestas (the one Ken's wife, Lucy competes with in ARA events) are limited to 7x17s on tarmac.

 

[stash3630]

Hey gents!!

I bought my wheels. 16x7 from Braid USA. I'm stoked.

So now back to tyre stuff...
195/50 seemed to be the consensus (which measured out to 23.7" full wheel diameter), but @Dialcaliper has me wondering about going with a 195/55 at 24,4" full wheel diameter. There's more options at that size and more sidewall too. Also, is there an easy way to check if I'm at stock ride height? I bought this ST used and I've been slowly undoing some of the previous younger owner's Fast & Furious type of addons (cough cough Boomba Blow Off Valve) so I'm curious if he lowered it too. It looks pretty low haha.

Regardless of 195/50 or 195/55, I think I'm down to these tires:

https://a.co/d/63BntL4 - Hankook Winter i*Pike
https://a.co/d/7fjjZGE - Conti Viking Contact 7
https://a.co/d/7NkWAw3 - Nokian Nordman 7
https://a.co/d/82gTfgx - Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5

Hankook winter has a cool unique design so I'm intrigued.
Conti Viking looks like the best gravel type tire alternative, but our surfaces out here are so hard and not really ever muddy.
Nordman 7 has more channels than the Hakkapelitta R5 and might be better at warmer temps than the R5
Hakkapeliitta R5 has more of a sharp shoulder like a gravel tire, but skinnier channels than the Nordman

Thoughts?

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Hey gents!!

I bought my wheels. 16x7 from Braid USA. I'm stoked.

So now back to tyre stuff...
195/50 seemed to be the consensus (which measured out to 23.7" full wheel diameter), but @Dialcaliper has me wondering about going with a 195/55 at 24,4" full wheel diameter. There's more options at that size and more sidewall too. Also, is there an easy way to check if I'm at stock ride height? I bought this ST used and I've been slowly undoing some of the previous younger owner's Fast & Furious type of addons (cough cough Boomba Blow Off Valve) so I'm curious if he lowered it too. It looks pretty low haha.

Regardless of 195/50 or 195/55, I think I'm down to these tires:

https://a.co/d/63BntL4 - Hankook Winter i*Pike
https://a.co/d/7fjjZGE - Conti Viking Contact 7
https://a.co/d/7NkWAw3 - Nokian Nordman 7
https://a.co/d/82gTfgx - Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5

Hankook winter has a cool unique design so I'm intrigued.
Conti Viking looks like the best gravel type tire alternative, but our surfaces out here are so hard and not really ever muddy.
Nordman 7 has more channels than the Hakkapelitta R5 and might be better at warmer temps than the R5
Hakkapeliitta R5 has more of a sharp shoulder like a gravel tire, but skinnier channels than the Nordman

Thoughts?

I’m going to give the continental Viking contact 7s a try after my arctic 12s wear out. Note that if you ever do mudflaps, they will decrease the diameter of the tire you can fit, at least with rally armor mud flaps.

 

[stash3630]

I’m going to give the continental Viking contact 7s a try after my arctic 12s wear out. Note that if you ever do mudflaps, they will decrease the diameter of the tire you can fit, at least with rally armor mud flaps.

Wow. Thanks for the heads up! I have these exact flaps and was about to install them today. That’s some real good info right there. Thanks friend!

So with that said, sounds like I’m going 195/50. Thanks again dude!

 

[Dialcaliper]

Hey gents!!

I bought my wheels. 16x7 from Braid USA. I'm stoked.

So now back to tyre stuff...
195/50 seemed to be the consensus (which measured out to 23.7" full wheel diameter), but @Dialcaliper has me wondering about going with a 195/55 at 24,4" full wheel diameter. There's more options at that size and more sidewall too. Also, is there an easy way to check if I'm at stock ride height? I bought this ST used and I've been slowly undoing some of the previous younger owner's Fast & Furious type of addons (cough cough Boomba Blow Off Valve) so I'm curious if he lowered it too. It looks pretty low haha.

Regardless of 195/50 or 195/55, I think I'm down to these tires:

https://a.co/d/63BntL4 - Hankook Winter i*Pike
https://a.co/d/7fjjZGE - Conti Viking Contact 7
https://a.co/d/7NkWAw3 - Nokian Nordman 7
https://a.co/d/82gTfgx - Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5

Hankook winter has a cool unique design so I'm intrigued.
Conti Viking looks like the best gravel type tire alternative, but our surfaces out here are so hard and not really ever muddy.
Nordman 7 has more channels than the Hakkapelitta R5 and might be better at warmer temps than the R5
Hakkapeliitta R5 has more of a sharp shoulder like a gravel tire, but skinnier channels than the Nordman

Thoughts?

Check the pictures here - stock ride height with 195/55R16 snow tires (brand new full tread) on 16x6.5 ET38 wheels. No rubbing issues so far with either stock springs/struts or with my new spring setup, even with the RallyArmor mudflaps, although I did put shorter nuts on, so there's now about a minimum of 3/8" clearance:

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/feisty-the-family-car.30825/page-2#post-495305

If you look close at the wheel pics, you can see the low profile nyloc nuts I put on the front RallyArmor mudflaps - Nuts are 1/4-20 stainless 13/64" height from McMaster Carr. After installing them with some blue locktite for good measure, I dremeled off the excess thread and ground the ends smooth.

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/129/3595/97367A113

Here's the service manual method for checking ride height based on the balljoint and pivot heights measured from flat pavement. Factory tolerance is +/- 0.5 on the ST, so it's fairly loose. With my spring setup, mine measured almost nominal in the front, and a couple millimeters above nominal in back (but still well in tolerance)

 

[M-Sport fan]

Hey gents!!

I bought my wheels. 16x7 from Braid USA. I'm stoked.

CONGRATS!!

Which model and ET (offset) did you get?

Sometime before I die this car will have a set of Braids on it, probably 16x8 or 17x8 Fullrace As, in their gold color, for summer street use.

 

[stash3630]

CONGRATS!!

Which model and ET (offset) did you get?

Sometime before I die this car will have a set of Braids on it, probably 16x8 or 17x8 Fullrace As, in their gold color, for summer street use.

I was torn between the Winrace Lars and the Winrace A16. Ended up going with the Lars because rallycar heheh 😏

I’m a bit illiterate with offset. Paul their President and CEO (who is rad btw) is gonna work his magic. I told him OEM offset is 47.5 but I think he said something about 37.5 if I recall correctly?

 

[stash3630]

Check the pictures here - stock ride height with 195/55R16 snow tires (brand new full tread) on 16x6.5 ET38 wheels. No rubbing issues so far with either stock springs/struts or with my new spring setup, even with the RallyArmor mudflaps, although I did put shorter nuts on, so there's now about a minimum of 3/8" clearance:

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/feisty-the-family-car.30825/page-2#post-495305

If you look close at the wheel pics, you can see the low profile nyloc nuts I put on the front RallyArmor mudflaps - Nuts are 1/4-20 stainless 13/64" height from McMaster Carr. After installing them with some blue locktite for good measure, I dremeled off the excess thread and ground the ends smooth.

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/129/3595/97367A113

Here's the service manual method for checking ride height based on the balljoint and pivot heights measured from flat pavement. Factory tolerance is +/- 0.5 on the ST, so it's fairly loose. With my spring setup, mine measured almost nominal in the front, and a couple millimeters above nominal in back (but still well in tolerance)

View attachment 57438

View attachment 57439 View attachment 57440

I just ordered a bunch of those low pro nuts. Thanks for the link. Gonna do some measuring today thanks to all this info. Really appreciate this and everything else @Dialcaliper !!