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Post your Cyborg DataZaps!

OP
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Thread Starter #21

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Sourskittle

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#22
Jozser, how much total did you pay for that? I got $1475 with full heat wrap and a turbo blanket.

I don't see how we can be cool with spending $800-$900 for an intercooler, but $1475 for a turbo system that can add 50whp in the upper rpms is questioned.

And I'm not knocking the intercooler even remotely, I bought the intercooler, and was excited to do so. Just say.... Anyone seen 50whp gains at 6200-6500rpm from an intercooler?


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno
13.3@104mph
 


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AncaSTer, Ontario
#23
[MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION]

Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno
13.3@104mph
Just a simple question, might have missed this somewhere else: why does this signature list 245whp and your bottom signature list 291whp, with everything else the same?
 


OP
J
Messages
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riverbank
Thread Starter #24
Jozser, how much total did you pay for that? I got $1475 with full heat wrap and a turbo blanket.

I don't see how we can be cool with spending $800-$900 for an intercooler, but $1475 for a turbo system that can add 50whp in the upper rpms is questioned.

And I'm not knocking the intercooler even remotely, I bought the intercooler, and was excited to do so. Just say.... Anyone seen 50whp gains at 6200-6500rpm from an intercooler?


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno
13.3@104mph
I believe I did! I've spent way more money on a lot less haha...definitely happy with the Cyborg. Plus amog officials won't know the difference. That's the best part since I'm in crappy California.
 


Sourskittle

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#25
[MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION]



Just a simple question, might have missed this somewhere else: why does this signature list 245whp and your bottom signature list 291whp, with everything else the same?
That's sorta my fault because I should have updated it and/or fixed it, but I really wasn't aware that I was double posting 2 sig every time I post, lol.

But the 245whp was "back in the day" with a drop in filter and all like it says. The 290whp obviously more tuning and some more parts.

I use tapatalk 99.999% or the time. If I get on the forum via a real PC or laptop once a month its more than often. So I think its something with tapatalk...

If you look at the first post on the "for sale thread" for the cyborg, it will give you a super sped up version of things as development on my car and the power it makes came along. Of course.... The thread is like a zillion pages long now. But once I added the 2J intake, added a $200-$250 criagslist meth kit, and made a few personal break throughs with tuning the power started climbing fast.

For the thread and myself, I should prob try to re-list all the mods on the car. I feel like its a little too late to do a build thread since its documented in sometimes overwhelming detail in the cyborg thread already...

But the odd sig thing, I promise isn't on purpose. I'll try to nip it with the laptop tonight, thanx for the heads up :)
 


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#26
It's funny that you should mention that, because based on the data through Vdyno, I feel like I should be making more as well. Using a 215/40/17 tire, 180 weight, and all the Fiesta ST specs in VDyno; I normally get anywhere from 235-240 hp. I am not sure if that's what I should be expecting from the Turbo? Seems like [MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION] was making more power, but he was running higher levels of ethanol and running more boost as well. I think my tune could be more conservative than his? I don't think Adam would tune a car and push it up to it's absolute limit , I don't think that would be ok for reliability's sake. All in all this is all just Data. For comparison's sake, my car accelerates up to 110-120 just as fast as my room mate's 370z from a 20 mph roll, so I guess that could be saying something. Maybe we could have Adam ( [MENTION=3805]Tune+[/MENTION] ) look at the data and chime in?
Here is my chime - vDyno is inaccurate. I hate it with a passion. I spent a full day messing with the settings to get consistent results from logs FROM THE DYNO. So there are no bumps, no incline, constant load, and no weather variable. Each log produced different results even though the dyno displayed the same results the vDyno showed a swing from -15 to + 20hp compared to the dyno.

This is why the dyno has sensor stack that collects a ton of data to apply accurate corrections to the results to give you consistency, vDyno doesn't do that. You can input data but it is all based on time. My thought on this is that Cobb does not capture data in the same amount of time increments. If you look at the time column on a Cobb datalog the time doesn't go up by .25 seconds or .5 seconds or 1 second, or in any sort of pattern at all. I think this is what gives the inaccurate results with vDyno.



Also - Just a notice based on the topic of this article. If you are a customer of mine, you are in an agreement to not share datalogs publicly (which includes Datazap's). Have a look at any of the emails that were sent to you during tuning, it is all in there. This wouldn't normally be a problem, however other tuners in this market have made it a problem so I make it known that they cannot be shared publicly.
 


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#28
93oct car is tuned by Russ. E30 car is tuned by Adam. That's prob the biggest difference.

What are the difference ( or sound "more smart" aka cool-guy, DELTA ) in the logs? The data has been put out there, is one person running 10 degrees of timing and 23psi the next person running 15 degrees of timing and 26psi and me running 18-19 degrees of timing and 29psi falling to 26-27psi but all doing the same numbers?

Lets just put it out there. Adam's not a cyborg fan. He's not really interested in tuning cyborg cars and its pretty much for the same reason I tune almost exclusively on E30+ vs 93oct.

Most cyborgs are tuned by Adam since A) he's the cheapest around ( and I def mention that often, its a great deal, hard to beat price point wise ).
B) people most of time already have paid Adam for life time tuning way before they go the cyborg route ( two budget minded mods, only makes sense ).
C) That I can think of... Frank's car making great power on 93oct is the only one I've seen that Russ has tuned ( and I don't think its totally done yet ) and its already making better power than EVERYONE ELSE ( including me on pump gas, that shit sucks, lol ).

D) If you were just asking for logs to make/start arguments and "delta" and "data" because the cyborg isn't for you (reddit), then at least post up what your really thinking.... Don't ask for data from people that are trying to be helpful to you just to try and spin things around and start questioning them.

Riddle me this... Where are the bad cyborg reviews? I think I've let every person that has bought a cyborg know, that is they give me a bad review or they are un-happy, then I wouldn't be mad at them, dis-like them, talk crap about them, and I just wanted them to be honest about what they paid for and what they got.... And I ant seen a negative review yet.


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno
13.3@104mph

It is funny you say that "He's the cheapest around" - People actually complain that I'm more expensive than everyone else, but they always forget that I offer lifetime revisions. If they want a single tune just like all other tuners I offer that as well, it is $150.00 THAT might be cheaper than everyone else, but almost always everyone goes for the lifetime tune because they plan on doing a turbo upgrade down the road.

I didn't even get to tune Frank's car. He asked for a basemap and I sent it over and never saw another email from him. He thinks I don't like your Turbo, which is false. It is a great option, because every other turbo out there is laggy as hell and needs some serious boost to make decent power.

A similar turbo to yours is the Pumaspeed but you have to deal with shipping to UK. I just made 280whp on 93oct with the smallest Pumaspeed turbo, pursuing over 300whp now with a squirt of methanol.


It is funny you say that "He's the cheapest around" - People actually complain that I'm more expensive than everyone else, but they always forget that I offer lifetime revisions. If they want a single tune just like all other tuners I offer that as well, it is $150.00 THAT might be cheaper than everyone else, but almost always everyone goes for the lifetime tune because they plan on doing a turbo upgrade down the road.
 


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#29
That's an eyebrow-raiser. Interesting.
vDyno is a cool tool, it gives you a ROUGH, and I mean EXTREMELY rough estimate on power. It is cool to see progression but shouldn't be used to compare cars to one another in my opinion. Same thing can be said for dyno's as well. If you want a good comparison on how fast your car is, hit the track see how fast you can get it to go!

If the eybrow-raiser was in regards to sharing datalogs, I wish it wasn't the case but some people make it so you can't have nice things.


 


dyn085

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#30
vDyno is a cool tool, it gives you a ROUGH, and I mean EXTREMELY rough estimate on power. It is cool to see progression but shouldn't be used to compare cars to one another in my opinion. Same thing can be said for dyno's as well. If you want a good comparison on how fast your car is, hit the track see how fast you can get it to go!

If the eybrow-raiser was in regards to sharing datalogs, I wish it wasn't the case but some people make it so you can't have nice things.
Eyebrow-raiser to everything.

I definitely agree that it shouldn't be used to compare cars, at least cars that are not literally using the same road at basically the same time, but it is a solid performance measurement if used by the same person to evaluate gains locally for free. Yes, garbage in is garbage out, but I've seen more ruined 'professional' 'real' dynos than I can count, so it still comes back to having solid inputs-regardless of the medium used. I would rather have a shitty V-Dyno that I did for free than a shitty 'real' dyno that I spent a bill on.

Want to know if your intake made all of the horsepowers you were told? Datalog a few runs before, go do your swap, datalog a few runs immediately after (on the same tune with your car at the same operating temps without disconnecting the battery...yada, yada, yada) and throw them into V-Dyno for comparison. Want to know if your tune revision made progress? Compare your previous datalogs to your post-tune datalogs and throw them into V-Dyno for comparison. If you're actively trying to control your variables and have done a proper evaluation of your datalogging road and procedures then you should not have any issue getting very similar numbers to what the 'real' dyno would put out, and most every other community is well aware of that and advocates it as such.

Want to know what your 'real' numbers are? Go shell out your hard-earned cash for a piece of paper and post it for everyone to see (even if you use a Mustang dyno and cry a little afterwards) and throw it in your signature. Want to know what your car does in comparison to your buddies? Invite him to the local dyno and schedule some runs for the same time of day. Post your sheets, get your sick brag, and go back to whatever you were doing before you bought that $100 (ish) piece of paper.

As for not sharing datalogs, and let me clarify that this is strictly my opinion, I disagree with the concept. If I choose a tuner to change ECU data on my $20k (+/-) form of transportation, which is generally the second-most expensive purchase people will ever make and is something that most people rely on being road-worthy daily or hope for a degree of longevity out of, I want the reassurance that the tuner is comfortable enough with his decisions that I could post a log for peer-review if I have questions. And I don't feel that way strictly about tuners, that is applicable in all facets of modification. If I post a datalog of before/after with a certain DP and the manufacturer chimed-in saying that sharing datalogs was not allowed, I would rip that part off of my car and throw it in the trash-I wouldn't even try selling it.

I'm not knocking-you for your decision, that is your prerogative. I don't think I've seen that advertised anywhere though, so I would consider making sure (if it isn't already) that it's very clear to any prospective buyers before purchase. Not that I intend to (I do my own tuning), but if I shelled-out money for your tune and found out afterwards that I couldn't share logs I would be pretty pissed and vocal about it. This community is very mis-informed in many avenues to begin with and the only real way of disseminating real information is by sharing and evaluating real information.

The best-supported platforms tend to be the most well-informed, but that's mostly just my casual observation.
 


DHM1

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#31
Eyebrow-raiser to everything.

I definitely agree that it shouldn't be used to compare cars, at least cars that are not literally using the same road at basically the same time, but it is a solid performance measurement if used by the same person to evaluate gains locally for free. Yes, garbage in is garbage out, but I've seen more ruined 'professional' 'real' dynos than I can count, so it still comes back to having solid inputs-regardless of the medium used. I would rather have a shitty V-Dyno that I did for free than a shitty 'real' dyno that I spent a bill on.

Want to know if your intake made all of the horsepowers you were told? Datalog a few runs before, go do your swap, datalog a few runs immediately after (on the same tune with your car at the same operating temps without disconnecting the battery...yada, yada, yada) and throw them into V-Dyno for comparison. Want to know if your tune revision made progress? Compare your previous datalogs to your post-tune datalogs and throw them into V-Dyno for comparison. If you're actively trying to control your variables and have done a proper evaluation of your datalogging road and procedures then you should not have any issue getting very similar numbers to what the 'real' dyno would put out, and most every other community is well aware of that and advocates it as such.

Want to know what your 'real' numbers are? Go shell out your hard-earned cash for a piece of paper and post it for everyone to see (even if you use a Mustang dyno and cry a little afterwards) and throw it in your signature. Want to know what your car does in comparison to your buddies? Invite him to the local dyno and schedule some runs for the same time of day. Post your sheets, get your sick brag, and go back to whatever you were doing before you bought that $100 (ish) piece of paper.

As for not sharing datalogs, and let me clarify that this is strictly my opinion, I disagree with the concept. If I choose a tuner to change ECU data on my $20k (+/-) form of transportation, which is generally the second-most expensive purchase people will ever make and is something that most people rely on being road-worthy daily or hope for a degree of longevity out of, I want the reassurance that the tuner is comfortable enough with his decisions that I could post a log for peer-review if I have questions. And I don't feel that way strictly about tuners, that is applicable in all facets of modification. If I post a datalog of before/after with a certain DP and the manufacturer chimed-in saying that sharing datalogs was not allowed, I would rip that part off of my car and throw it in the trash-I wouldn't even try selling it.

I'm not knocking-you for your decision, that is your prerogative. I don't think I've seen that advertised anywhere though, so I would consider making sure (if it isn't already) that it's very clear to any prospective buyers before purchase. Not that I intend to (I do my own tuning), but if I shelled-out money for your tune and found out afterwards that I couldn't share logs I would be pretty pissed and vocal about it. This community is very mis-informed in many avenues to begin with and the only real way of disseminating real information is by sharing and evaluating real information.

The best-supported platforms tend to be the most well-informed, but that's mostly just my casual observation.
Well said for the most part. Vdyno, chassis and engine dyno all have major rolls to play. As for being worried about showing data to one another I learned along time ago.. Someone trying to copy what you do with out the real knowledge, experience and education will not be successful. It's never about one thing here or there is about the whole package's execution.

Russ
 


Siestarider

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Stuart
#32
Quality discourse is the reason I return to the forum to see what is happening. Many good points made by all the posters before me. Some that seem contradictory are not, just differentiating shades of gray.

I was once wedded to the basic premise that because F=MA, delta t full throttle from 2500 rpm to 6500 rpm was the most basic measure of any performance addition. By listening to others' posts and learning by tracking, I better understand that the rpm range of critical importance can vary by user, so another shade of gray within which to evaluate performance.

Smokey Yunick would have said we are a bunch of data fools: make your mods, use your butt dyno and confirm at track. But if he had all the cool data and software tools we have, I bet he would be weighing in too. Only after his latest winning secret was out. Some of the top wrenches on here remind me of Smokey.

We are fortunate to stand on the shoulders of hot rod giants. And to enjoy pearls of wisdom from future legends in hot rodding.

I am not in this class, but I confess satisfaction when two guys in a brand new Cayman 4 stopped me at my last track day to ask if my car was stock. I replied "Well, it has lighter wheels and a tune." Their faces made my day. Weirdest part is before I bought the Fist, that was going to be my next car.
 


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Memphis
#33
Here is my chime - vDyno is inaccurate. I hate it with a passion. I spent a full day messing with the settings to get consistent results from logs FROM THE DYNO. So there are no bumps, no incline, constant load, and no weather variable. Each log produced different results even though the dyno displayed the same results the vDyno showed a swing from -15 to + 20hp compared to the dyno.
Logs from a dyno are never going to be accurate in virtual dyno as it uses frontal area and drag coefficient in its equation.
 


Siestarider

Senior Member
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#34
A log from a dyno run is not in any way related to a log from the real world. On a dyno, F is very simple. Car sits in place and dyno resistance is the force measured. Or even better, an engine dyno is used to measure F without all that drivetrain friction and dyno manufacturer bias thrown in.

Vdyno calculates F with theoretical aero drag, but real world M and A. In terms of practical reality, I prefer Vdyno. As long as you use it for your own car and understand the variables. You can tweak aero and see it on the chart. Try that on a chassis dyno.
 




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