we promised a big brake kit....stop in and take a look :)

[LilPartyBox]

Those Porsche caliper looks like are off a non-S boxster, very popular for the VW guys. the problem is, would it clear our stock wheels?

yup! I was one of the VW guys back in the day running the Boxster 4-piston kit from ECS Tuning. The braking was phenomenal. I'm very excited to see Ron making this available for the FiST.

Ron, if it doesn't clear our stock wheels, will you have a template made to check clearance of an aftermarket wheel?

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[ron@whoosh]

yup! I was one of the VW guys back in the day running the Boxster 4-piston kit from ECS Tuning. The braking was phenomenal. I'm very excited to see Ron making this available for the FiST.

Ron, if it doesn't clear our stock wheels, will you have a template made to check clearance of an aftermarket wheel?

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I'm guessing the Porsche caliper will not clear the OEM wheels w/o a spacer
I'm not promising a template but accurate measurements for sure

 

[LilPartyBox]

I'm guessing the Porsche caliper will not clear the OEM wheels w/o a spacer
I'm not promising a template but accurate measurements for sure

Normally I'd say that no template would be a deal breaker, don't bother with the kit. But our 4x108 wheel selection is so, SO limited that as a community i think we'll be able to compile a short list of wheel styles and dimensions that clear. I'm just not gonna be the guy to go first

Is it fair to say this kit will cost more than the Wilwood but less than the Alcon?

 

[ron@whoosh]

Normally I'd say that no template would be a deal breaker, don't bother with the kit. But our 4x108 wheel selection is so, SO limited that as a community i think we'll be able to compile a short list of wheel styles and dimensions that clear. I'm just not gonna be the guy to go first

Is it fair to say this kit will cost more than the Wilwood but less than the Alcon?

not close to discussing price yet sorry

 

[Peter H]

...This kit will allow the use of your front OEM caliper and pad choice.

Kit will contain as shown:
325mm 2pc front rotors, attachment brackets, and required hardware...

I can imagine the larger rotors would look great, but can you tell me what the theoretical braking performance increases would be by:

1. Upgrading front discs to 325mm and keeping the OEM calipers
2. Upgrading both front and rear discs (325/315mm) and keeping the OEM calipers

Thanks!

 

[green_henry]

I can imagine the larger rotors would look great, but can you tell me what the theoretical braking performance increases would be by:

1. Upgrading front discs to 325mm and keeping the OEM calipers
2. Upgrading both front and rear discs (325/315mm) and keeping the OEM calipers

Thanks!

There was a great article in Grassroots Motorsports a few years ago about BBKs (at least I think it was GRM). Braking performance improvements were not significant, but they dissipated heat better and reduced brake fade -- great for the track but a waste of money (performance-wise) for street-only applications

 

[alexrex20]

Brake torque increases as rotor diameter increases. The torque arm is longer and even though pad surface area is unchanged, overall braking effect is increased. You do also get better heat management due to more mass in the rotor. I wouldn't say they're a waste on the street. There's no such thing as overkill when it comes to braking performance, in my opinion.

 

[LilPartyBox]

Agreed. If it shaves only 3 inches off my stopping distances that may be just enough to keep me from rolling into a ditch or whatever.

 

[theblue]

Tires improving braking distances. bigger brakes with more pistons and better pads get you:

1. less fade (more repeated stops)
2. more feel
3. move even wear (longer life)
4. looks cooler
5. possibly less rotating mass
6. lower brake fluid temps

 

[TDavis]

I track my FiST occasionally but its by no means a track brat and my Stoptech BBK you can definitely tell a difference even on the street.

There is no overkill when upgrading safety items imo.

And I'm sorry but if you this and this don't make a difference in stopping faster idk what to tell you.

 

[theblue]

almost everyone who puts on a big brake kit feel the pedal more along with usually moving to pads with better bite.

If you can lock up the brakes on a stock set, how can you do better with this with better brakes?

 

[LilPartyBox]

Tires improving braking distances. bigger brakes with more pistons and better pads get you:

1. less fade (more repeated stops)
2. more feel
3. move even wear (longer life)
4. looks cooler
5. possibly less rotating mass
6. lower brake fluid temps

Braking hardware characteristics absolutely effect distance...to an extent. I assume the point you are making is that it's not the largest effect on distances. If so, then i agree that going from an all-season touring to a summer tire will have a much larger effect on braking distances. And while we're at it, pad compound has a larger effect than the rotor size and pistons as well. The biggest improvement i've experienced with the two cars i've gone BBK with is reduced pedal travel/force for the same or more braking power (As quoted alexrex20 explains below). It gives the feeling of having WAY more braking power in reserve - and there is. The confidence that inspires it worth every penny. In the end, a mod like this WILL make you safer on the street. Especially if you hot dog as much as i do

almost everyone who puts on a big brake kit feel the pedal more along with usually moving to pads with better bite.

If you can lock up the brakes on a stock set, how can you do better with this with better brakes?

First, lock up is not a valid test of braking performance. Especially with the advent of ABS and all of the variables the software algorithms use to determine when and how anti-LOCK is applied....Anti....Lock....

Secondly, alex put it best.

Brake torque increases as rotor diameter increases. The torque arm is longer and even though pad surface area is unchanged, overall braking effect is increased. You do also get better heat management due to more mass in the rotor. I wouldn't say they're a waste on the street. There's no such thing as overkill when it comes to braking performance, in my opinion.

Now take that torque increase and add a stiffer caliper with more pistons, horizontally opposed to evenly distribute the power, and you have some great braking right der. AND IT SAYS PORSCHE. WTF?!

 

[theblue]

a tire can only be slowed to the point at which it loses traction. if you can get there then whatever brake setup you have is good enough by definition to reach maximum braking potential.

All other factors consistent, it should make zero different how big of a brake kit you have until you are unable to lock up the tire. (not to say there are not other advantages to BBKs)

As an example, my 1992 BMW 325i base model endurance race car runs factory calipers and rotors. we endurance race non-stop for 8-24 hours and have better stopping distances than most exotic sports cars from the factory.

How?

weight reduction
Performance Friction 08 compound pads
Cryogenic treated high carbon rotors
massive brake ducts
200 tread street tires (as per rules)

we've flat spotted tires, but never faded these brakes.

 

[alexrex20]

BBK is more about repeatability and consistency and feel than it is about outright braking potential. You are absolutely right that if your brakes are already capable of locking up the tires at high speed, then you have achieved maximum braking potential. But there is something to be said about modulation and pedal feel which is definitely improved with a BBK. Smooth is fast.

BrAkES oNlY sLoW yOU DoWn

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[kenweise]

What is the minimum wheel size for this setup?

 

[ron@whoosh]

What is the minimum wheel size for this setup?

we really can't promise wheel fitments until it's installed
the kit pictured in Post#1 was fit to a US Fiesta and needed a small bracket adjustment so we are on kit #2 already
progress is moving along
new kit already anodized and ready to fit (seen below)

 

[LilPartyBox]

sexy af. Glad a slotted only rotor will be an option. What coating is being used on the rotor hats?

 

[ron@whoosh]

sexy af. Glad a slotted only rotor will be an option. What coating is being used on the rotor hats?

they grey is just powder coating

 

[green_henry]

Hey, Ron, how much do the rotors weigh?

Any thoughts about offering 2-piece rotors in stock size? I had some RacingBrake, stock-size, slotted, 2-piece rotors on my TSX and loved them -- they were several pounds lighter than stock.

 

[ron@whoosh]

Hey, Ron, how much do the rotors weigh?

Any thoughts about offering 2-piece rotors in stock size? I had some RacingBrake, stock-size, slotted, 2-piece rotors on my TSX and loved them -- they were several pounds lighter than stock.

I've had a few inquiries now about 2 pc front OEM size - I'll see if this is an option
I'll also weigh the upsized rotors and report back, including weight of the entire kit