What rpm and gear is considered lugging for the fist

[Stkid93]

What is considered lugging for the fist?

i went full throttle around 3000 rpm’s in 4th gear today which I don’t normally do. I normally roll onto the throttle a lot more around that rpm. But I figured since datalogging is usually done in 3 or 4th gear starting at 2500-3000 I figured it should be fine right? But as soon as I did it the engine felt like I was lugging it pretty bad. I hit full boost and the car felt like it wasn’t really going anywhere. So that’s when I let out. I have never had any problem going full throttle at 3k in 3rd gear.

( I would never go full throttle at 3000 in 6th gear or even 5th for that matter)

 

[Intuit]

My programming and hardware aren't altered so personally not worried about it. But for cruising purposes I do try to keep my RPMs above 1650; however it really depends on the terrain and traffic. We're in a valley so if aren't going up a hill, it's only because are going down one. Many people drive with NO 🤬ing concept of momentum which basically means I often run at higher RPMs just to avoid some of the back and forth shifting when the person ahead suddenly drops 10MPH on a hill. (and that was already after having held the brake all the way down the hill 🙄)

 

[gtx3076]

I've gone WOT at 3k in 5th and 6th for years. Your FIST is not a mazda.

 

[dhminer]

Anything over 3k is probably fine. Or just get a big turbo and you’ll never want it below 4500 other than cruising

 

[Capri to ST]

If you look at the shift light on the dash when it tells you to up shift, it does so it what I would consider crazy low RPMs, a point at which I would definitely feel like I was lugging the engine.
I pay no attention to it, and shift when I feel comfortable with it. I've been driving nothing but manual transmission cars for decades and feel like I know when to do it.
However, I would hope that that shift light would not let you shift so low that it would lug and possibly damage the engine, so it appears that the lugging point may be quite a bit lower than I feel it is.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Whoever finally gets to tune my car is going to get a request to make that economy upshift dash light into a performance shift light, if at all possible.

 

[Capri to ST]

Whoever finally gets to tune my car is going to get a request to make that economy upshift dash light into a performance shift light, if at all possible.

That's a great idea, because it's pretty much useless as it is now.

 

[Stkid93]

Oh that freaking light is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. I read in the manual that it suggests shifting at

1st to 2nd-12 mph
2 to 3rd- 23 mph
3rd to 4th. 30 mph
4th to 5th -40
6th gear is Anything over 40

Which is way below the typical rule of thumb where ever gear is 10 mph. If you go by the typical rule. You would shift into 6th around 60. Not 40

 

[rallytaff]

I either go with engine sound or check the tach and never bother with that stupid light!

 

[Intuit]

Instant mileage can lend a clue as to best gear for cruise. If you down-shift and gain mileage on the instantaneous reading then you could've been lugging it.

For optimal combustion, air needs to be able to flow into the cylinder at a particular minimum velocity. If you're not meeting that minimum then you may be creating conditions conducive to carbon build up. Too high and you're doing nothing but spinning the crankshaft, creating additional wear for piston rings, cam lobes, valve stems, etcetera. Basically there should be a balance between not so low that you're fowling your engine, and not so high that you're creating undo wear.

EDIT 24y03m22d: Meant down-shift when I said up-shift. 🙄

 

[Dialcaliper]

Good rule of thumb. If your factory shift light is still enabled, whenever the up-shift light is on, it’s perfectly safe to romp on it all you want. Generally over 3000RPM. Most efficient cruise is usually between 2000-3000RPM, and while you can go full throttle occasionally, why do it when the turbo can’t even spool up? I generally try to avoid lugging it or even operating below 2000RPM. Any time I want to have fun, I’ll downshift to keep the revs over 3000

 

[Intuit]

Oh that freaking light is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. I read in the manual that it suggests shifting at

1st to 2nd-12 mph
2 to 3rd- 23 mph
3rd to 4th. 30 mph
4th to 5th -40
6th gear is Anything over 40

Which is way below the typical rule of thumb where ever gear is 10 mph. If you go by the typical rule. You would shift into 6th around 60. Not 40

From the manual...

 

[Cneu]

From the manual...

View attachment 59922
View attachment 59923
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This is generally what I've found to be pretty good in my FiST. I usually shift into 6th around 38mph if I'm trying to extend my mileage. This car "feels" like it lugs but it really isn't. If you've upgraded your exhaust this "fake lugging" is way more noticeable. If I'm trying to conserve fuel I shift ~1800rpm for most gears but ~1500rpm into 6th. Never have an issue. We have plenty of lower end torque, even before we get into boost, so I try to avoid going into boost if I can while I'm in the city. I can manage ~34mpg in the city with 1800rpm shifts. My best city mileage has been up around 36mpg this way. I'm not going slow either, so I don't really see the point in jumping off the line in the fist.

I grew up driving heavy equipment and trucks, so my shift pattern usually reflects the lower end torque that I'm used to. Most v6 and v8 vehicles I've driven prefer a 1500-2000rpm shift point. Most folks also tend to over-rev on smaller engines, anyway.

 

[Intuit]

This is generally what I've found to be pretty good in my FiST. I generally shift into 6th around 38mph if I'm trying to extend my mileage. This car "feels" like it lugs but it really isn't. If I'm trying to conserve fuel I shift ~1800rpm for most gears. Never have an issue. We have plenty of lower end torque, even before we get into boost, so I try to avoid going into boost if I can while I'm in the city. I can manage ~34mpg in the city with 1800rpm shifts. I'm not going slow either, so I don't really see the point in jumping off the line in the fist.

I grew up driving heavy equipment and trucks, though, so my shift pattern usually reflects the lower end torque that I'm used to. Most v6 and v8 vehicles I've driven prefer a 1500-2000rpm shift point. Most folks also tend to over-rev on smaller engines, anyway.

Yup. No immediate harm or additional wear on the engine whatsoever. Engineered for small SUVs, the torque is fun in our lighter weight cars. The throttle-by-wire system allowed the engineers to the ability to filter out driver commands that would harm a healthy GTDI engine at low RPM.

Drove my previous manual (naturally aspirated & throttle-by-cable) like that; with minimal necessary shifts for the desired acceleration; merely adding throttle vs RPM. Basically you shift as the rate of increase for torque begins to reduce.

It's difficult to remember the mileage but at some point I guess between 260 and 310... maybe around 275, it started getting a little smoke out of the exhaust. Didn't run bad at all... just a tad bit of smoke and smell with engine revs at a standstill. I figured, well, if I was going to get into the engine block, may as well have some fun with it beforehand. So for the next two weeks I ran the RPMs up every chance I got. Unexpectedly stopped smoking. It was as if I gave it the "Italian tune-up" except, there wasn't a running problem to resolve. Probably freed stuck or carboned piston ring(s). The engine (and trans) were fine at 327k but rust had compromised structural points of the ass-end; so had to unload it.

Re FiST, I'm a lot more liberal with my shift points but kind have to be when coming off the line since the additional gear ratio in the six speed was added before first.

 

[Dpro]

ya shit is dumb and unfortunately I do not think it is something that can be tuned out. My car is tuned with a larger turbo and I pretty much ignore it. Plus with my wing sealed up I see 32mph minimum on the freeway romping on it and 25 combined without a light foot. I got nothing to complain with the amount of power I make and this kind of fuel mileage worrying about shifting ya no. 🤣 Shift when you pull the revs and let her rip.

 

[Cneu]

I was just dispelling the idea that it's "easy" to lug these engines. Basically, shift above 1500rpm and you'll never lug it unless you're on a hill.

At some point, someone seems to have said that lugging a turboed engine will result in near instant catastrophic failure, or at least that's how some folks seem to approach it. That's not really true.

It's easy to put the pedal down and pat yourself on the back for hitting some high RPMs. It's a different challenge to beat your mileage. Both are fun. After a while it gets old just romping on it to get to the next stop light so getting better mileage is a fun game.