2JR Full Race Front Mount Intercooler

[Sekred]

I must have miss something, what (else) is it you guys want to know.
From 2JR's website.

"Quick Overview,

Full Race FMIC for the Fiesta ST. The largest FMIC available for the ST that requires no cutting. Direct drop in with 17 rows and less than 1psi pressure drop across the tank, its built for the street and track. We've seen over 22% reduction in intake charge temps and huge efficiency gains over stock. You're able to run more boost, longer with higher performance gains. Keep your stock crash bar

2JR Intercooler
22x8.25x2.25 = 408.3 in squared (or 500 surface area) - 2JR intercooler is 33% Larger than stock. And you retain your crash bar.

OEM Intercooler
27x5.1x2 = 275.4 in squared (or 404" surface area) ".

 

[WeTheNorth]

lol, read the last two pages mate [MENTION=62]Sekred[/MENTION]

 

[joe@2j-racing]

Not here to spoonfeed.

 

[Sekred]

lol, read the last two pages mate [MENTION=62]Sekred[/MENTION]

Ok, just read it again. I'll just shut=up then, lol.

 

[joe@2j-racing]

What a joke this has all become, asking for basic information and we get complete nonsense back. Who cares what you've won, it does not reflect this product. Provide the info that's being asked, I don't know why this is becoming such a chore

You refuse to actually read, compare and analyze the data for yourself. You also fail to understand the importance of experience and track testing. I've been in this game long enough to know when someone stands behind a keyboard and shouts demands without merit.

 

[AzNightmare]

Just curious if anyone here has actually went to our site and read the description on our intercooler? Browsing Cobb, Mishimoto and Mountune's website - our website provides more details on the intercooler then any of those. But I suppose they get a pass, because of their brand?

Take a look for yourself.
http://www.2j-racing.com/fiesta-st/2jr-full-race-intercooler.html

Not sure any of those guys hold several National Championship racing titles in FWD and RWD. Nor will you see them at the track as often as we are - we recently finished a FRS build that is leading points in SCCA Majors in STU. We are a race shop, we build race car parts for the street and we are always testing.

Ok, let's calm down and take a step back. No one here is attacking you. We simply have questions, and as a vendor, we just want responses to the exact questions we're asking. It's no different than if we walked into your shop and asked these questions. It's no different than if we were to call you on the phone and ask these questions.

No one's attacking your credentials, so I'm not sure why you keep dancing around the questions and telling us about them. We just have some specific questions about your product. We never challenged you and asked for your company's resume.

No brand gets a free pass. You may have more or less than the other brands on their web site. Doesn't matter. We're here asking you the specific questions, because we are interested in your IC, not theirs. We didn't care enough about COBB or Mountune or whomever's IC to ask them the details, because we're interested in getting to know your IC better since we may potentially drop the money on it.

Not here to spoonfeed.

This comment really struck a chord with me. I'll give you benefit of the doubt that things got a bit heated when it wasn't intended to be, so that was a knee-jerk response that doesn't reflect your overall customer service. If you're not here to answer potential customer questions about the product, then what are you here for then...? It's not really spoonfeeding. It's only "spoonfed" if the info to those questions were answered somewhere in a FAQ, but it wasn't.

We figured you're the main contact that knows the product well, so that you would be able to answer questions like whether it's a Bar & Plate or Tube & Fin IC.

 

[Hijinx]

Not here to spoonfeed.

Not asking you to spoon feed anyone. I asked a couple hard questions and really easy one... All of which you've avoided. Yes, you have made some data available...but again, none of that answers the questions put forth. Even datalogs were asked for... Datalogs showing charge air temps over various rpm/time/speed against the stock would be better data vs dimensions and a stated percentage would be awesome to show what this cooler can do. I can't imagine we'd get flow and fill time data from you... You did great work with the intake. I was hoping that would carry over.

 

[commonplatypus]

One of the people you just spent your time lashing out at actually bought your product, Joe. You should probably realize that before you go attacking people who gave you $400 and waited for you to play catch up on shipping. He's a customer and asking for data on something he paid you money for and you're insulting him.

This really saddens me to see this behavior from an esteemed company. Drop a raw datalog from a Cobb Accessport and let us judge for ourselves as you aren't doing yourself any favors at this point in time. I think people are largely starting to consider this an important factor in their purchase making decisions.

No other companies "get a pass", but the data is already out there for them. We already have a baseline for how their items perform. I have a personal weird habit of collecting it. Your intercooler is a bit different in design and implementation, so the curiosity is there because your product is interesting. Regardless, the burden of proof is on you; not the customer. Nobody is attacking you, but they are asking you to show them what you've got to sell. A customer was asking you questions after some concerns were brought up. It's not hard to do a data log and show us how the product performs; because that's what people want to see. Anyone can make claims. But if you don't want to put data behind them instead of posturing and throwing shade at Cobb and Mountune, then that's on you.

 

[joe@2j-racing]

Lets recap - Page 1, and 7 - both discuss size, dimensions, and pressure drop. Also includes comparison to stock and other FMICs - page 7. Question was asked on Page 15 about part of the FMIC behind the crash bar. I posted the temp changes logged when we drilled our FMIC and measured changes with a dual air intake temp gauge - and I posted the efficiency at 62%. The answer I got was - Joe's data seems "gimmicky" Then I went on to say how we measured during racing, etc. And again, those answers werent good enough for a select few.

The data is all here in this thread and on the website. I wish I could provide more to curious minds but thats what we used - pressure drop, temp drop and correction % (which isnt directly correlated - so I didnt bring it up).

 

[AzNightmare]

Lets recap - Page 1, and 7 - both discuss size, dimensions, and pressure drop. Also includes comparison to stock and other FMICs - page 7. Question was asked on Page 15 about part of the FMIC behind the crash bar. I posted the temp changes logged when we drilled our FMIC and measured changes with a dual air intake temp gauge - and I posted the efficiency at 62%. The answer I got was - Joe's data seems "gimmicky" Then I went on to say how we measured during racing, etc. And again, those answers werent good enough for a select few.

The data is all here in this thread and on the website. I wish I could provide more to curious minds but thats what we used - pressure drop, temp drop and correction % (which isnt directly correlated - so I didnt bring it up).

No body said your data was gimmicky. Questions were purely on the construction/physicality of the product. The "gimmicky" part was referenced on how air would get into the upper portion of the intercooler when it was blocked by a crash beam. (The Evo8 was a poor example because it has vents in their crash beam)
1.) Was there were fins directing air to the top portion
2.) Is this a Tube/Fin or Bar/Plate design
3.) What's the weight of the IC.
4.) Do you have additional photos with the front bumper on to see how the IC looks visually on the car

These specific info were never mentioned anywhere on the 2JR web site or in this thread. So it's not being "spoonfed" when potential customers ask these legitimate questions about the the product. Sure, maybe question 3 & 4 might take a bit of extra work, because you need to get a scale and a camera. But there's no reason why question 1, 2, and 3 were completely ignored.

Those are simple questions that could have been answered by anyone with physical access to the intercooler. Maybe you're just a sales rep and you weren't actually involved with the construction. That's fine. Say you don't know and you'll get the answers from the shop guys when you can. I don't get how these type of questions promote you to go off-topic into talking about brand credentials, race track testing, etc.

 

[J2FoRS]

Lol whoa. Glad I came to read this thread.

 

[kjohn09e]

My god the backlash here is unreal. I've had this thing installed for almost 2 weeks now. Performs as expected. With my charge temps starting at 70 degrees, my charge temps climb about 20 degrees on a 3rd to 5th gear pull to redline. Tight fit, emailed joe with questions during the install and got a response within 15 minutes. Have to agree with him on the spoon feeding thing. You guys act like if you don't have the exact blue prints and details down to the foundry that supplied the metal, it must be a crap product.

 

[AzNightmare]

My god the backlash here is unreal. I've had this thing installed for almost 2 weeks now. Performs as expected. With my charge temps starting at 70 degrees, my charge temps climb about 20 degrees on a 3rd to 5th gear pull to redline. Tight fit, emailed joe with questions during the install and got a response within 15 minutes. Have to agree with him on the spoon feeding thing. You guys act like if you don't have the exact blue prints and details down to the foundry that supplied the metal, it must be a crap product.

The questions asked in here were reasonable and well within power to be answered by the manufacturer. Many of them being very simple questions that were dodged. It's inexcusable. Now if there's customers like yourself who don't really care to ask questions, that's fine. You are the ones that will keep J2R afloat.

Cause I have problems with his customer service and quality.
http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/8143-2J-intercooler-review?p=147075&viewfull=1#post147075
To put bluntly, J2R doesn't care to address issues.

The quality of the product isn't very good. Maybe it's good enough that it works. But let's be realistic, this is a tough competition. There are a lot of other vendors out there. Vendors out there who aren't getting thrashed in their respective threads, so that might be saying something. Maybe I should get a good reason to choose 2JR before I go "spoon feeding" him my hard earned cash.

 

[kjohn09e]

You saw price as reason enough to jump on board so what else could you have been looking for?

 

[MS67]

Not sure what to think here...

Seems like Joe could avoid all this by simply responding to the posted questions instead of telling people where to look for information that doesn't answer the questions asked...

But on the other side of things, how many of us bought MTC intercoolers off eBay from overseas, sold by an unknown shop with hardly any info other than a hunch that it may be a clone of the Cobb IC?

 

[AzNightmare]

You saw price as reason enough to jump on board so what else could you have been looking for?

Absolutely. It's promo pre-sale price was it's biggest selling point for many. It was also advertised as (one of?) the biggest intercooler available for our cars, giving it the best bang for buck while it's still at $400 (cause at their advertised $800 retail price, this IC suddenly loses it's luster).

At no point did I ever assume 2JR was an inferior brand. They might not be one of the big giant brands, but they deserve a fair shot just the same, and in many cases, smaller R&D brands often go the extra mile to do better because they don't have the same advertising/marketing power as say COBB or Mountune.

Point is, their price is inexpensive, but so what? Is that their justification? I had no idea I was dealing with a company that produces 2nd rate quality/service just because their price is less.

But on the other side of things, how many of us bought MTC intercoolers off eBay from overseas, sold by an unknown shop with hardly any info other than a hunch that it may be a clone of the Cobb IC?

Unknown shops aren't vendors in the forum, and we don't get danced around with irrelevant responses. To be honest, I've received better Q&A on eBay at times... But once again, I never considered J2R as "eBay oversea seller" caliber... Or should I ?

 

[Hijinx]

You saw price as reason enough to jump on board so what else could you have been looking for?

Imagine you were found a really cheap home, or rental even. Some basic, obvious questions are answered. 2 bed/2 bath, 1 car garage, the yard may be fenced... But, then you ask questions that should be able to answered like, square footage, what school district it's in, when was it built, does it have lead based paint (granted its illegal to not disclose that), washer and dryer, central heating and air... And while you're asking these questions the property manager is dodging your questions, refusing to "spoon-feed" you because the answers are on their website (which they're not) and you can go look at the house yourself (except you need them to do that).

You're buying a product and have questions. It's a metaphor, so please spare me your comment about it not being comparable.

 

[frankiefiesta]

The questions asked in here were reasonable and well within power to be answered by the manufacturer. Many of them being very simple questions that were dodged. It's inexcusable. Now if there's customers like yourself who don't really care to ask questions, that's fine. You are the ones that will keep J2R afloat.

Cause I have problems with his customer service and quality.
http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/8143-2J-intercooler-review?p=147075&viewfull=1#post147075
To put bluntly, J2R doesn't care to address issues.

The quality of the product isn't very good. Maybe it's good enough that it works. But let's be realistic, this is a tough competition. There are a lot of other vendors out there. Vendors out there who aren't getting thrashed in their respective threads, so that might be saying something. Maybe I should get a good reason to choose 2JR before I go "spoon feeding" him my hard earned cash.

Did you put the intercooler on? Or did you return it/sell it?

It performs quite well, to get fussy over some welds you don't see when it's on is sort of nit-picking if you ask me. How come you didn't ask joe all these questions before? They've answered the phone every time I've called and have been more than happy to answer my questions. I guess what I'm getting at is maybe you didn't do your due diligence before purchasing the intercooler and expected something more than what you received. For $350 you got an intercooler just shy of DHM factory fit in terms of core volume with some iffy welds made here in America that performs just as good as others costing more.

 

[AzNightmare]

Did you put the intercooler on? Or did you return it/sell it?

It performs quite well, to get fussy over some welds you don't see when it's on is sort of nit-picking if you ask me. How come you didn't ask joe all these questions before? They've answered the phone every time I've called and have been more than happy to answer my questions. I guess what I'm getting at is maybe you didn't do your due diligence before purchasing the intercooler and expected something more than what you received. For $350 you got an intercooler just shy of DHM factory fit in terms of core volume with some iffy welds made here in America that performs just as good as others costing more.

No, I haven't put the intercooler on. The fact that it will perform well is irrelevant, and expected. Because the oem intercooler really isn't that hard to beat. The real question is, no, I haven't been able to test 2-3 different aftermarket IC's to compare one or the other. Most people buy one aftermarket IC and be done with it.

Fussy welds is perhaps nit-picking, but not when there's many other vendors I could have chosen over. Those welds could possibly cost me performance. Yes, it will still be better than the oem IC (because what isn't?), but I was sold an "apple", and parts of it's rotten. Should I just ignore that?

I'm not sure what questions are you referring about. Many people asked him many questions in the thread. Scroll up to post #170. I even laid it out in number form. None of them answered. It's pathetic on 2JR when YOU, a customer, had to make a new review thread answering all those questions because the vendor decided he was too busy to "spoon feed us" when we're the ones "spoon feeding" him money. (Honestly though, genuine HUGE thanks for your review thread) Good product or not, that's just sh!t customer service. Sorry, just the truth.

Oh, and I know he's active in these threads and probably reading (or skimming) through these issues. He just decided to shut himself in a hole cause he rather just ignore it than actually address it like how a real business should. Maybe this is their first hiccup in business history and it got too overwhelming. I don't know... but that's what irks me the most. That's not how you handle it. There's no reason I need to go call him just to get answers. He's in here. He's read the questions. It doesn't sit well with me when there's things like less rows than advertised, and he's invisible to even apologize about it. No, I don't need other members in here chiming in for him. 2JR needs to come in and start talking.

 

[frankiefiesta]

No, I haven't put the intercooler on. The fact that it will perform well is irrelevant, and expected. Because the oem intercooler really isn't that hard to beat. The real question is, no, I haven't been able to test 2-3 different aftermarket IC's to compare one or the other. Most people buy one aftermarket IC and be done with it.

Fussy welds is perhaps nit-picking, but not when there's many other vendors I could have chosen over. Those welds could possibly cost me performance. Yes, it will still be better than the oem IC (because what isn't?), but I was sold an "apple", and parts of it's rotten. Should I just ignore that?

I'm not sure what questions are you referring about. Many people asked him many questions in the thread. Scroll up to post #170. I even laid it out in number form. None of them answered. It's pathetic on 2JR when YOU, a customer, had to make a new review thread answering all those questions because the vendor decided he was too busy to "spoon feed us" when we're the ones "spoon feeding" him money. (Honestly though, genuine HUGE thanks for your review thread) Good product or not, that's just sh!t customer service. Sorry, just the truth.

Oh, and I know he's active in these threads and probably reading (or skimming) through these issues. He just decided to shut himself in a hole cause he rather just ignore it than actually address it like how a real business should. Maybe this is their first hiccup in business history and it got too overwhelming. I don't know... but that's what irks me the most. That's not how you handle it. There's no reason I need to go call him just to get answers. He's in here. He's read the questions. It doesn't sit well with me when there's things like less rows than advertised, and he's invisible to even apologize about it. No, I don't need other members in here chiming in for him. 2JR needs to come in and start talking.

You have the patience of a saint, I would've got rid of it by now if I was as angry/upset as you

Oh wait, we all have the patience of a saint.. Waited over 6 months for it haha