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Thread: E30 tune. Am I missing out?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ford ST View Post
    Sorry but you are wrong. 87 E30 mix is not even 93 octane. If you honestly think E30 has nothing to do with the octane rating why don't you go ask a tuner because you are so wrong.

    http://www.georgebelton.com/E85Calculator.php
    What's wrong is you not bothering to even do the math and spouting off how I'm wrong. My mix comes out to 94 octane (93.7 to be exact) , that's the exact calculator I used ahead of time there guy... Maybe, you know, try actually reading what my mix was first next time, it came out to e35 to make up for the low octane Regular, Jason says this is fine... not 100% ideal but totally fine.

    Also, let's go over some other terms: "matters much"... as in not the main thing. Yes, 87 octane ALL by itself is bad, but 93+ final mix is fine with the Dizzy e30, Jason and I discussed this ahead of time. If 93.7 octane isn't high enough, then my OAR wouldn't max out quickly to -1.00 and stay there. C'mon man, let's operate using facts and not guessing where you don't bother to read the whole thing. In fact, I knew ahead of time because Jason posted how he did this himself, used Regular but went slightly higher on the E to e35 and his tunes run fine that way, so that's what gave me the idea to make lemonade out of the lemons of being filled up with Regular accidentally and the results are awesome! :)
    '17 Magnetic, wheels/calipers - New Feb, '18. Dizzy V2 93/e30 - schmoove daily tune, Stratified V4.0 - 91,93 STuned traction, Torque Solutions 75a RMM, Mojo Mfg short shift kit, drop-in filter w/cold air shroud cutout.

    FYI - 92 octane e10 pump premium is very close to if not 93 octane, start with a 93 tune or you're leaving free power on the table over running 91 tunes.

  2. #62
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    Okay I'm specifically talking about mixing E30 with 87. I don't want people who are going to run a E30 tune to think that is okay because it is not. That is not what E30 Tunes are made for.

    Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

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    So after speaking with my Chem 2 Professor, who is pretty well researched into fuels and combustibles, I have been informed that E85 isn't really the best fuel. In fact, he says it is a horrible fuel. Toluene or xylene? (I think) he recommends as better octane boosters than ethanol. He even recommended isopropanol over ethanol. And definitely recommended gasoline over gasahol (very hard to find gasoline without E10).

    As for methanol/water injection, he highly recommended that over E85. Ethanol absorbs water like no other, and corrodes many different materials.

    IDK yall, I've been loving my E30 tune. But this is just some food for thought. As for my build motor boosted NA miata, I was on the fence about E85 but not anymore. From my understanding, the only time a car should be run on full E85 is if you know the fuel will be spent in a very short time, to reduce water absorption.


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    Quote Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
    Jason posted how he did this himself, used Regular but went slightly higher on the E to e35 and his tunes run fine that way,
    Uh that actually proves that E content does add octane rating.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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    Here's the deal you have someone asking about E30 I was just trying to give him the right information and let him know the E30 mixes you get at the pump are not adequate. That type of E30 is meant for flex fuel vehicles not for performance gains as it's mixed with regular fuel. You then responded by saying the octane rating doesn't really matter it's just the cooling effect of ethanol that's simply not true.

    Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ford ST View Post
    Okay I'm specifically talking about mixing E30 with 87. I don't want people who are going to run a E30 tune to think that is okay because it is not. That is not what E30 Tunes are made for.
    And my point was just to show how octane isn't the main factor in an e30 tune's performance factor over a 93 tune. Simply put, it's the cooling effect ethanol has that allows for higher boost and more aggressive timing... so yes, as far as my Dizzy tune, it's only looking for at least 93 octane to max out it's performance, the difference over a regular 93 tune is that the ethanol allows the more aggressive boost and timing. For me, that can be achieved running e40 with 87, although just not 100% ideal, it's completely safe.. Now different tuners may tune for a higher octane, just saying for my specific tune it's a good example to show how octane isn't the *main* factor in an e30 tunes gains.
    '17 Magnetic, wheels/calipers - New Feb, '18. Dizzy V2 93/e30 - schmoove daily tune, Stratified V4.0 - 91,93 STuned traction, Torque Solutions 75a RMM, Mojo Mfg short shift kit, drop-in filter w/cold air shroud cutout.

    FYI - 92 octane e10 pump premium is very close to if not 93 octane, start with a 93 tune or you're leaving free power on the table over running 91 tunes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meowoosh View Post
    So after speaking with my Chem 2 Professor, who is pretty well researched into fuels and combustibles, I have been informed that E85 isn't really the best fuel. In fact, he says it is a horrible fuel. Toluene or xylene? (I think) he recommends as better octane boosters than ethanol. He even recommended isopropanol over ethanol. And definitely recommended gasoline over gasahol (very hard to find gasoline without E10).

    As for methanol/water injection, he highly recommended that over E85. Ethanol absorbs water like no other, and corrodes many different materials.

    IDK yall, I've been loving my E30 tune. But this is just some food for thought. As for my build motor boosted NA miata, I was on the fence about E85 but not anymore. From my understanding, the only time a car should be run on full E85 is if you know the fuel will be spent in a very short time, to reduce water absorption.

    It's definitely a matter of convenience and the bigger factor is the cooling/anti-knock properties of ethanol itself as long as you have a decent overall octane. How else could an e30 tune max out on 93 octane and still have such nice gains over a 93 tune?
    '17 Magnetic, wheels/calipers - New Feb, '18. Dizzy V2 93/e30 - schmoove daily tune, Stratified V4.0 - 91,93 STuned traction, Torque Solutions 75a RMM, Mojo Mfg short shift kit, drop-in filter w/cold air shroud cutout.

    FYI - 92 octane e10 pump premium is very close to if not 93 octane, start with a 93 tune or you're leaving free power on the table over running 91 tunes.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexrex20 View Post
    Uh that actually proves that E content does add octane rating.
    Sorry you're not getting my point... The point is I'm at "only" 93 total octane but still get massive gains on my e30 tune vs. running a regular 93 tune because of the cooling effect of ethanol. It's important for everyone to know WHERE the gains are coming from, it's not definitely not ONLY the added octane, but also definitely from the cooling properties of the ethanol itself too. Just like an intercooler upgrade doesn't add the power itself, it's because running cooler allows the tune to be more aggressive with less heat to begin with. So with e30, yes, you get a big octane boost but from there it can also be tuned more aggressively because the octane actually matters less in with a cooler environment so it's less likely to create knock in the first place. Just trying to help explain how the e30 tune works. Now, Jason's tune may only need a 93 total octane to max out his e30 tunes, but other tuners could definitely be tuning for a higher octane target, it's always good to ask questions and I did ahead of time on the FB group with him and my numbers all clearly show it's fine. i'm actually hoping he pushes the octane ratio higher once I dayalog, I'll take even more pwoer with the normal 96 octane e30 mix! :)
    Last edited by danbfree; 09-14-2018 at 01:11 PM.
    '17 Magnetic, wheels/calipers - New Feb, '18. Dizzy V2 93/e30 - schmoove daily tune, Stratified V4.0 - 91,93 STuned traction, Torque Solutions 75a RMM, Mojo Mfg short shift kit, drop-in filter w/cold air shroud cutout.

    FYI - 92 octane e10 pump premium is very close to if not 93 octane, start with a 93 tune or you're leaving free power on the table over running 91 tunes.

  9. #69
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    This is not how stratified sees it at all. They recommend mixing with premium fuel. I give up no point in arguing with you. I honestly can't believe how you don't understand how important of a role octane plays into this. Do you even understand what a octane rating is? Are you telling me that stratified does not know what they're talking about when they mention the octane?

    Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ford ST View Post
    This is not how stratified sees it at all. They recommend mixing with premium fuel. I give up no point in arguing with you. I honestly can't believe how you don't understand how important of a role octane plays into this. Do you even understand what a octane rating is? Are you telling me that stratified does not know what they're talking about when they mention the octane?
    Never said it was recommended, Dizzy and Stratified definitely recommend mixing with premium... just saying ethanol has separate cooling qualities, separate from raising octane, to help tune more aggressively... All I know is I get a BIG power boost running 93 octane e35 on an e30 tune over 93 pump on 93 tune... Could be that the pump tune is super conservative and the e30 is more aggressive? Sure, but also saying that ethanol running your engine cooler, separate from just literal knock protection of the fuel in combustion, seems to be a big part in running a more aggressive tune to make more power. With it running cooler, it can be pushed more aggressively... Kind of like an intercooler, if you have an upgraded intercooler then you can tune more aggressively, the intercooler itself isn't adding the power, the tune is... This running cooler part isn't factored into the actual fuel octane, but instead is taken advantage of by the tuner to push more power as you have lower starting temps... I hope that makes sense, not trying to confuse anyone, just stating that there is more to it than JUST the octane of the fuel itself. It's like a 50/50 thing between higher octane and more aggressive tuning from lower temps.
    '17 Magnetic, wheels/calipers - New Feb, '18. Dizzy V2 93/e30 - schmoove daily tune, Stratified V4.0 - 91,93 STuned traction, Torque Solutions 75a RMM, Mojo Mfg short shift kit, drop-in filter w/cold air shroud cutout.

    FYI - 92 octane e10 pump premium is very close to if not 93 octane, start with a 93 tune or you're leaving free power on the table over running 91 tunes.


 
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