New Shoes - 205/45r16 - help!!

[XanderMax]

I know the whole tire thing has been covered (and I've searched) but I'm hoping to get some info from people that have run two or more of the these three tires, in this size.

Currently running 205/50r16 re71r on Konig Dekagram.

Never rubbed on stock suspension, but recently lowered my car with whiteline springs (~1.25" drop) and now the re71r are rubbing very slightly. Full lock/bump or incline. Honestly very surprised they aren't rubbing significantly more, it is tight, like really tight, tires are kinda tucked and the tread is at/above the level of the top point of my fender. Seems like going down to 205/45 is the smart move (or so I'm trying to convince myself-love the look as it sits now).

Daily driven, canyon fun, always spirited driving.

Definitely won't run another 200tw tire, so the top contenders are:

Indy 500
19lbs / 7.3" tread width / 23.2 OAD

BFG SC2
21 lbs / 8" (measured on 7" rim, but I'm assuming there is no stretch to account for) / 23.2 OAD

Conti EC Sport
18lbs / 7.4" tread width / 23.3 OAD

(Numbers roughly adjusted for tread width an 8" rim)

Reading recent feedback it seems like the Indy have the slight edge over SC2 overall, but the 205/45 SC2 has an 8" tread width. Has anyone ran these two tires IN THESE SIZES?? Is the extra width worth it?

Haven't seen much on the conti EC Sport, mostly favourable DD reviews and 2nd hand tales of squishy sidewall (lightest tires, could make sense)

Also considering just staying 205/50 and being careful, at which point I would likely go with the Indy 500 (21lbs / 7.7" tread width / 24.1" OAD) I'm concerned fresh rubber will create more rubbing.

Any thoughts, input, or suggestions are greatly welcomed. Thanks!

 

[Dpro]

Interesting choices, I am about to run a set of Dekagrams as well and I am considering 2 tires Hankook Ventus RS4 and Federal RSR or RSR Pro all are 205/45. I do not look at the sectional width on the sidewall. I look at actual tread width and sectional width measured. Reason is some companies run them wide. Federal is famous for this. A 205 fits more like a 215 for instance.

...I should add all those tires listed are a step below the RE71 that is why I am looking at the Hankooks and the Feddys I want tires that are quite close to the performance of the RE71.

 

[JDG]

Are you looking to continue running super sticky tires like the RE71R? Everything you have listed is a huge compromise compared to what you run now.

Since you are asking for recommendations, I recommend going back to stock springs and running 225/45R16 tires on the 16x8 Dekagrams. Specifically these:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...245WR6Z3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

The OEM suspension is excellent and should not be changed for performance driving IMO. This tire size will also get rid of any wheel gap..

 

[Erick_V]

I just bought Indy 500's for my stock wheels (have a set of Dekagram's coming, those are getting 200tw or less) and as far as DD-ing them goes they are quiet and ride pretty nice. I was running Falken 615K's prior and I don't have nearly as much confidence as I did before. I thoroughly enjoyed those tires and keep in mind I had the old compound, not the newer "+" compound. If you are use to the Re-71's, which are better than the Falkens, I would go with the Falkens or a similar 200tw tire, you will be giving up a lot of grip and confidence. I really liked the Falken's, they rode well and they weren't crazy loud for 200tw. I'm probably going to get 215/45/16 Falken 615K+ for my Dekagrams when I eventually get them. I've also had Federal RSR's and those were incredibly loud and rough to daily. I drive pretty spirited and autocross so I'm lucky if my daily tires last me a year. Got 9 months out of the Falkens lol

 

[XanderMax]

Are you looking to continue running super sticky tires like the RE71R? Everything you have listed is a huge compromise compared to what you run now.

Since you are asking for recommendations, I recommend going back to stock springs and running 225/45R16 tires on the 16x8 Dekagrams. Specifically these:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...245WR6Z3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

The OEM suspension is excellent and should not be changed for performance driving IMO. This tire size will also get rid of any wheel gap..

Thanks for all the quick replies.

I liked the OEM suspension but I thought there was definitely room for improvement. The harsh bouncy ride AND body roll both have been SIGNIFICANTLY improved over stock suspension. Verrry happy with the springs. The car tracks so much more predictably and flat through turns and especially long sweepers. Will not be removing the springs to accommodate a bigger tire.

205/45r16 would get me pretty close to stock gearing as well. Running a 2+% larger tire has been "ok" but I wouldn't mind getting that extra umph back.

Definitely not looking to go for another 200tw tire again. Re71r were great for the first 4k miles but significantly dropped off after that and the mileage out of a set is really impractical. (Plus they are seriously noisy as hell) That's why I'm looking at 300+tw tires. I won't be doing any track or autox, just relentless spirited driving 😁

The roads here aren't great so that's why I'm considering the 205/50 again, but just not sure they'll fit, I'd hate to have to pay a 15% restocking fee to go down a size.

 

[XanderMax]

I just bought Indy 500's for my stock wheels (have a set of Dekagram's coming, those are getting 200tw or less) and as far as DD-ing them goes they are quiet and ride pretty nice. I was running Falken 615K's prior and I don't have nearly as much confidence as I did before. I thoroughly enjoyed those tires and keep in mind I had the old compound, not the newer "+" compound. If you are use to the Re-71's, which are better than the Falkens, I would go with the Falkens or a similar 200tw tire, you will be giving up a lot of grip and confidence. I really liked the Falken's, they rode well and they weren't crazy loud for 200tw. I'm probably going to get 215/45/16 Falken 615K+ for my Dekagrams when I eventually get them. I've also had Federal RSR's and those were incredibly loud and rough to daily. I drive pretty spirited and autocross so I'm lucky if my daily tires last me a year. Got 9 months out of the Falkens lol

Yeahhhhh, can't be dropping that kind of money on tires literally every year, unfortunately.

Basically looking for the best second tier performer 😖

 

[CSM]

IMO I'd go with the 205/45/16 Indy 500s. I've ran them in the past with good experience. They aren't 200TW tires so your grip will drop off, but for the price they are tough to beat and are pretty predictable IMO. They let you know when you're at the limit.

On a side note about 200TW tires, I've ran three sets now on my FiSt (two sets of ZIII and one set of ZII). I love running them in the summer, but like OP alluded to, if you aren't using for track/autox, they heat cycle out pretty quickly after a few thousand miles and grip falls off tremendously. I have a dedicated set of ZIII for Autox only because of this reason, and for next summer I will switch back to Indy 500s after my old ZIIIs wear out.

 

[XanderMax]

IMO I'd go with the 205/45/16 Indy 500s. I've ran them in the past with good experience. They aren't 200TW tires so your grip will drop off, but for the price they are tough to beat and are pretty predictable IMO. They let you know when you're at the limit.

On a side note about 200TW tires, I've ran three sets now on my FiSt (two sets of ZIII and one set of ZII). I love running them in the summer, but like OP alluded to, if you aren't using for track/autox, they heat cycle out pretty quickly after a few thousand miles and grip falls off tremendously. I have a dedicated set of ZIII for Autox only because of this reason, and for next summer I will switch back to Indy 500s after my old ZIIIs wear out.

Have you ever ran the 8" tread width 205/45 SC2?
(Pretty much a 215/some actual measured 225)

 

[CSM]

Have you ever ran the 8" tread width 205/45 SC2?
(Pretty much a 215/some actual measured 225)

Nope personally haven't but have friends that did with good results. Honestly I think you can't go wrong with either SC2 or the Firehawks. Wait it out for a $70 off coupon for a set of 4 from Tire Rack

 

[Snrub]

If you're not tracking/autoXing, I'd be tempted to stick with the OEM tire width and rim width. The thing that makes this car great is the cornering responsiveness. On other cars I've owned, going with a wider tire can make a car feel less nimble, even when it achieves higher overall corning performance. On the street, you cannot/should not be doing 10/10ths, so IMO trading nimbleness for outright performance doesn't make sense.

For maximum performance, you want to match the tire width with the rim width (see multiple GRM tests), but this isn't practical on the street and you want a bit of rim protection. I tend to think 205 on a 7" and 225 on a 8" is the right number, while for a track setup you want 205 on a 8" and 225 on a 9".

The Indy 500 is a great tire in terms of performance for the dollar and the way it feels, I believe due to the near 200TW style tread pattern (ie. less squirm) and stiff sidewall. I don't have personal experience with the Conti ECS, but it's a top tier tire. Some tests show it's a hair behind the Michelin PS4S in the dry, but better in the wet. The Indy 500 is worse in the wet. All things being equal, I'd probably go for the ECS over the Indy 500, but the price is different and the amount of rain you get may impact your decision.

 

[XanderMax]

Nope personally haven't but have friends that did with good results. Honestly I think you can't go wrong with either SC2 or the Firehawks. Wait it out for a $70 off coupon for a set of 4 from Tire Rack

Still internally debating on the 45 and 50 series. It's almost an inch down in size.

 

[Snrub]

Keep in mind 1" diameter is 0.5" distance to the fender, it's not a big deal from an appearance perspective. 205/45/16 Indy 500s feel great on my car, if you're rubbing, it seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[XanderMax]

If you're not tracking/autoXing, I'd be tempted to stick with the OEM tire width and rim width. The thing that makes this car great is the cornering responsiveness. On other cars I've owned, going with a wider tire can make a car feel less nimble, even when it achieves higher overall corning performance. On the street, you cannot/should not be doing 10/10ths, so IMO trading nimbleness for outright performance doesn't make sense.

For maximum performance, you want to match the tire width with the rim width (see multiple GRM tests), but this isn't practical on the street and you want a bit of rim protection. I tend to think 205 on a 7" and 225 on a 8" is the right number, while for a track setup you want 205 on a 8" and 225 on a 9".

The Indy 500 is a great tire in terms of performance for the dollar and the way it feels, I believe due to the near 200TW style tread pattern (ie. less squirm) and stiff sidewall. I don't have personal experience with the Conti ECS, but it's a top tier tire. Some tests show it's a hair behind the Michelin PS4S in the dry, but better in the wet. The Indy 500 is worse in the wet. All things being equal, I'd probably go for the ECS over the Indy 500, but the price is different and the amount of rain you get may impact your decision.

Fair points. But wouldn't the 225 on a 8" rim be sacrificing the nimbleness we're trying to maintain? (Aside from the fact that tires in this application are extremely limited)

Also, the EC Sport may very well have squishy sidewalls, again, sacrificing agility.

I don't mind what others might consider harsh or stiff because I'm coming from a re71r, so likely the most stiff 300tw will still be more compliant than my current tire.

My 205/50r16 re71r don't have much stretch on an 8" rim. (Tried to get a good pic of the angle but it's hard to get a shot that's representative because the bead (?) of the tire protrudes out past the edge of the rim)

 

[M-Sport fan]

The OEM suspension is excellent and should not be changed for performance driving IMO.

I am finding this out every day I am still on the factory suspension!

In fact, since there are NO affordable (i.e.; NOT an $8K+ to start Reiger remote reservoir 3 way overkill), coil over. OR spring setups available for this car which allow for at least the factory ride height, with a higher rate spring, save for the Silver/NeoMax Panda Motorworks gravel rally spec setup, (which I am still considering), I might just stay on the factory stuff, or just use the factory springs on Bilstein B6es when the OEM dampers finally give up the ghost, and leak/blow out.

 

[XanderMax]

I am finding this out every day I am still on the factory suspension!

In fact, since there are NO affordable (i.e.; NOT an $8K+ to start Reiger remote reservoir 3 way overkill), coil over. OR spring setups available for this car which allow for at least the factory ride height, with a higher rate spring, save for the Silver/NeoMax Panda Motorworks gravel rally spec setup, (which I am still considering), I might just stay on the factory stuff, or just use the factory springs on Bilstein B6es when the OEM dampers finally give up the ghost, and leak/blow out.

I can say that putting the springs on was a definite improvement over stock ride and handling. No lap times to compare, so race/autox may have a more substantiated claim, but turns I used to take at 40 lighting the traction control up, I can now take at 50+ with ease.

I'll likely go with upgraded struts when the stockers die, or go coilovers, but I'm very happy with the upgrade for now. It's a $17k DD, can't justify spending $5-8k on suspension upgrades! (To the wife at least 😉)

For under $200 and a couple hours of wrenching, couldn't be happier.

Any input on the tire selection?

 

[M-Sport fan]

Since I am in the market for 16" all season tires on a 16x7, which can handle cold dry temps, and will gladly use a 200 tread wear (or even a 100 tread wear gumball! ) for pure summer use, and have not researched otherwise, no I cannot opine on the 300 tread wear class of summers for this size.

 

[Dpro]

Thanks for all the quick replies.

I liked the OEM suspension but I thought there was definitely room for improvement. The harsh bouncy ride AND body roll both have been SIGNIFICANTLY improved over stock suspension. Verrry happy with the springs. The car tracks so much more predictably and flat through turns and especially long sweepers. Will not be removing the springs to accommodate a bigger tire.

205/45r16 would get me pretty close to stock gearing as well. Running a 2+% larger tire has been "ok" but I wouldn't mind getting that extra umph back.

Definitely not looking to go for another 200tw tire again. Re71r were great for the first 4k miles but significantly dropped off after that and the mileage out of a set is really impractical. (Plus they are seriously noisy as hell) That's why I'm looking at 300+tw tires. I won't be doing any track or autox, just relentless spirited driving 😁

The roads here aren't great so that's why I'm considering the 205/50 again, but just not sure they'll fit, I'd hate to have to pay a 15% restocking fee to go down a size.

I honestly keep on coming back to the Hankook RS4’s for a tire thats a step up from the Indy 500 and is very close to the RE71 and has quite the reputation for lasting wear wise and performance wise. In fact its considered a great tire for endurance racing because of that.
I demand a lot out of tires and I personally do not feel the Indy 500’s would make me happy. I have narrowed my choices down today price conscious wise to the RS4 or the the Feddy RSR not the RSRR or RS Pro. both latter supposedly being noisy compared to the former.

 

[Snrub]

Fair points. But wouldn't the 225 on a 8" rim be sacrificing the nimbleness we're trying to maintain? (Aside from the fact that tires in this application are extremely limited)

Also, the EC Sport may very well have squishy sidewalls, again, sacrificing agility.

I don't mind what others might consider harsh or stiff because I'm coming from a re71r, so likely the most stiff 300tw will still be more compliant than my current tire.

My 205/50r16 re71r don't have much stretch on an 8" rim. (Tried to get a good pic of the angle but it's hard to get a shot that's representative because the bead (?) of the tire protrudes out past the edge of the rim)

Yeah I guess so, do 205/45/15. I somehow interpreted that you were considering changing the rim too, clearly I misinterpreted. The ECS may have a little higher dry limits than the Indy 500, but I've never seen an objective comparison test. I think a some of the One Lap of America people run them, so you might be able to find good impressions from those folks.

An out of the box option might be the Hankook RS-4. They need a bit of heat to reach peak performance, which isn't useful for you, but they wear better that the more autoX biases "200TW" tires. Edit: I didn't see the above post until after I wrote this.

 

[Dpro]

Yeah I guess so, do 205/45/15. I somehow interpreted that you were considering changing the rim too, clearly I misinterpreted. The ECS may have a little higher dry limits than the Indy 500, but I've never seen an objective comparison test. I think a some of the One Lap of America people run them, so you might be able to find good impressions from those folks.

An out of the box option might be the Hankook RS-4. They need a bit of heat to reach peak performance, which isn't useful for you, but they wear better that the more autoX biases "200TW" tires. Edit: I didn't see the above post until after I wrote this.

Heh, ya he is here in LA the RS4’s would probably heat up fine here. We have a guy that runs 888R’s on the crest and if you want to talk about a tire that needs heat to work there ya go. lol
I will be making a decision shortly though as I have a set of Dekagrams in boxes sitting here screaming at me. 😆

 

[XanderMax]

Yeah I guess so, do 205/45/15. I somehow interpreted that you were considering changing the rim too, clearly I misinterpreted. The ECS may have a little higher dry limits than the Indy 500, but I've never seen an objective comparison test. I think a some of the One Lap of America people run them, so you might be able to find good impressions from those folks.

An out of the box option might be the Hankook RS-4. They need a bit of heat to reach peak performance, which isn't useful for you, but they wear better that the more autoX biases "200TW" tires. Edit: I didn't see the above post until after I wrote this.

RS4 was definitely a contender when I was shopping for 200tw tires, but the wet performance, even though not that common where I live, made me steer clear. Honestly the re71r were pretty decent in the rain, only squirly over standing water.

Just can't justify buying tires every year, and I don't even drive that much! Especially like @CSM said, they heat cycled out pretty fast, so true peak performance was only had for about 6 months 🤯

I'd rather have 75% of the performance for 20-30k miles than 100% performance for 4k and 60% for another 4k (or how long you dare push it). If I were racing maybe that would be more justifiable. Maybe after a set of 2nd tier tires I'll change my mind again, who knows, lol, but at this point I think I'm all in on a 300+tw tire.