Calling all road race/circuit race/autocross people of all levels

[fk8fist]

I’m currently building my Fiesta slowly so I can road race, autocross, and hillclimb all while being able to DD it(for now).

Car is currently stage 2 fbo

Power I plan to stop at an S280 with aux fuel and upgraded injectors and pump. Gonna do a radiator, coolant tank, catch can, oil cooler, and on the fence about upgrading the cold side.

Suspension is what I’m mainly what I’m wondering what I need and don’t need. I’m not looking to build the most competitive car, I just want things to compliment each other and eliminate weak points etc.
Meister R coilovers, front and rear swaybar endlinks, strut tower bars? Front, rear or both sway bars? Toe links? What chassis bracing is actually worth the money?

Wheels/tires I’m already running Konig Hypergrams 17x8’s, but have been debating going to TD’s 15x8’s with meatier tires.

Brakes whatever bbk fits 15’s or my 17’s if I stay with them. Pads something in the middle with fairly low dust. I know a lot of people run different pads front and rear.

Interior gonna delete the rear seats. Idk if I wanna throw a whole delete kit in there.

Trans do a coolerworx shifter, lsd, and I think that’s all I need?

What am I missing?

 

[kazoospec]

Classing? Not trying to be a snark, but before you start ANY sort of competition build, you've got to decide what class you are building for. Let me tell you a little story from personal experience. My first "competition" build was a 2002 Nissan SE-R Spec V. My parameters were similar to yours, at least in the beginning. I just wanted to show up, run and have a good time with my car. That lasted for a few events. The hitch was this: SE-R's had an issue with the factory precat which was nuking the engines at an alarming rate. The solution was an aftermarket header with no precat. No problem, I add one to the car. Unfortunately, I now get bumped from stock class (I was doing mostly SCCA autocross at the time) where the car was extremely competitive up to street touring, where it was substantially outclassed. In order to catch up to the rest of the street touring competition, I ended up adding an intake, mid pipe, cat back, suspension refresh, sway bars, wheels/tires, upper and lower tie bars, etc., etc., etc. By the time I had the car reasonably competitive, it was loud, harsh and "twitchy" to drive. Hardly the stuff of a "daily driver". You'll find that certain mods (such as removing interior panels or changing the turbo) can have disproportionally huge classing consequences. You obviously know yourself and your goals, but my experience is "I just want to show up and have fun" usually doesn't survive the first contact with active competition.

You are also going to find that road racing, autocross and hill climb will each have their own rule sets, classing and, significantly, safety requirements. The bar/cage required for road racing and hillclimb will KILL your car for autocross, where weight and center of gravity are key concerns. Wheel size/tire compounds allowed are also going to vary from event type to event type, and competitive tires (especially in the kind of modified classes you'll end up in with some of the mods you're already planning) are NOT going to be acceptable "street/daily" tires. The "do it all" car is sort of the stuff of video games.

The only person I've seen "successfully" pull this off was a guy I used to autocross with. He had a Volvo 240 that was set up as a rally car, cage and all. (I don't honestly know if he daily drove it or not). I say "successfully" in quotes because it was a TERRIBLE autocross car, a decent rally car and I suppose could have been an OK daily driver (although there are SERIOUS risks with daily driving a caged car that you need to be familiar with). The reason he was successful is that he really didn't care one bit about the competition aspect of things. He was one of the few I know that could be 10 seconds off the pace at a 60 second autocross and still be happy as the proverbial clam.

Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable about the platform (I've only had mine about 2 months) will jump in with specifics about how you might fit into different event types with your proposed set-up. Just letting you know that, in my experience, the "do it all" car is a myth. Hopefully, your experience proves me wrong!

Cheers and good luck!

 

[the duke]

You’re better off driving the car now and changing what you need as you progress. I guarantee you’re worse than you think you are.

As am I,and I’ve been doing this for a number of years.

 

[fk8fist]

You’re better off driving the car now and changing what you need as you progress. I guarantee you’re worse than you think you are.

As am I,and I’ve been doing this for a number of years.

I’ve raced autocross for 15 years now. Had an SVTFocus before this, Evo, turbo RX7, and multiple dsm’s over 400whp. My home tracks were willow springs, buttonwillow, and laguna seca. I’m not new to any of this. I already know the car has snap oversteer issues. I’ve already autocrossed the car a season stock.

 

[Jabbit]

There are a good number of people that autox and hpde here, myself included. I don't care about classes, I just show up and drive. I only do hpde on track nothing else. Work on tires, brakes, cooling before anything else. Then see how you like it. Going fast and handling great is all well and good until you cook your brakes or overheat.

 

[fk8fist]

There are a good number of people that autox and hpde here, myself included. I don't care about classes, I just show up and drive. I only do hpde on track nothing else. Work on tires, brakes, cooling before anything else. Then see how you like it. Going fast and handling great is all well and good until you cook your brakes or overheat.

Already did a season. Have pads, fluid, and tires. Found the radiator to be a weak point a few weeks ago, but it wasn’t the end of the world.
That’s kind of where I’m at with it. I don’t choose a class, I’m trying to combat the flaws it has like snap oversteer.

 

[Jabbit]

Already did a season. Have pads, fluid, and tires. Found the radiator to be a weak point a few weeks ago, but it wasn’t the end of the world.
That’s kind of where I’m at with it. I don’t choose a class, I’m trying to combat the flaws it has like snap oversteer.

What are you running for tires? Pressure might be too high if you are dealing with oversteer. @Dpro sells rear camber plates so that is an affordable/easy way to up the grip.

 

[fk8fist]

What are you running for tires? Pressure might be too high if you are dealing with oversteer. @Dpro sells rear camber plates so that is an affordable/easy way to up the grip.

Falken 660’s. I’ve messed with pressure. It’s the off throttle oversteer with the pan hard rear I’m not used to. I get it can be useful, but I’d like to be able to make it more predictable.
Plan to do the Dpro camber plates in the rear too.

 

[fk8fist]

Something I forgot to mention is I’d like to get into circuit racing. That is really the main reason for building it how I plan. If I can get away with minimal suspension mods and just run good coilovers etc, cool.
I’m also not trying to be competitive, just have fun, see if I can surprise myself. I’m not trying to build the car for a specific class.
I’m not changing anything as far as my power plans lol. That’s for my own pleasure.
Stage 2 is fun, but I’d like to feel confident I can beat a minivan. I know it says nothing for cornering.

 

[kevinatfms]

Already did a season. Have pads, fluid, and tires. Found the radiator to be a weak point a few weeks ago, but it wasn’t the end of the world.
That’s kind of where I’m at with it. I don’t choose a class, I’m trying to combat the flaws it has like snap oversteer.

Car does not have snap oversteer. Ford designed the chassis to be "playful" by adding significant compression damping and stiff rear springs and much thicker torsion beam(car does not have a "panhard" bar).

The only time i had uncontrollable oversteer was with a large rear bar, torsion brace and stiffer than factory springs. If you have none of those things the car has a tendancy to actually understeer midcorner. I assume you are running the rear tire pressure too high causing the rear to have no grip?

As far as suspension goes, a few of us have had multiple setups and there is a spreadsheet being compiled by @Dialcaliper to be released shortly detailing all of the differing measurements for certain heights, tire sizes and spring choices that can better help the community to determine the best setup.

@Dialcaliper has gone to great lengths to detail every possible scenario - roll center height, bumpsteer, spring rate and damper rates - into a great spreadsheet. Hope to assist him in getting more information posted.

The basics - lower 0.5" from stock to keep roll center in check. Spring rates around 300-350 in front and 250-300 in back to optimize grip. Dial in camber up front(-2.5 to -3.5) and as much caster(+4.0) as possible.

 

[SteveS]

If you are talking about circuit RACING, as opposed to track days, you're still going to have to build to class. Get the rulebook for whatever series you want to race in, and find out what it allows and doesn't allow. You don't want to build up something that isn't allowed to race in any class, which can happen.

As far as snap oversteer, in the Fiesta if you think you are experiencing that, it's quite possibly the result of too much understeer, resulting in what NASCAR drivers used to call "pushy-loose", that is initial understeer which quickly changes to oversteer when speed bleeds off enough that the fronts, which are turned too far, regain grip. You can mitigate that to some degree with setup changes, but bear in mind it's an inherent characteristic of front wheel drive. Ford designed the Fiesta ST's suspension and traction control systems to promote corner rotation. So you will either have to alter your driving to suit the car or try to build that behavior out of it.

 

[fk8fist]

The car has lowering springs/struts, endlinks to get proper geometry, front camber bolts, and has been aligned accordingly.
Tire pressures are what they should be. It’s a crucial part from my understanding so I’ve always been on top of it. I’m also a tech, and was a Ford tech for a few years, so I over maintain my vehicles if that’s a thing.
I’ll figure something out for my car as a class near what I want to do.

 

[kevinatfms]

The car has lowering springs/struts, endlinks to get proper geometry, front camber bolts, and has been aligned accordingly.
Tire pressures are what they should be. It’s a crucial part from my understanding so I’ve always been on top of it. I’m also a tech, and was a Ford tech for a few years, so I over maintain my vehicles if that’s a thing.
I’ll figure something out for my car as a class near what I want to do.

The reason we ask these questions is the vague responses....highlighted in bold.

Share your setup information and alot of the people on this board can give you tips to ensure the car performs how you want it to on track. Each has their own setup that works and alot of people(me included) have wasted a ton of money on parts that dont work or failed early.

What is your alignment specs?

What springs/struts?

What are your starting cold pressure? What is your hot pressure?

 

[fk8fist]

I start with spec pressure and adjust from there. 39f/36r. Maybe a couple psi higher.

Alignment is +.2 in the front toe and -1.8 camber. I’d need to find my alignment sheet to see everything else, but those were the only changes I believe from stock.

Springs/struts are very basic. Just H&R Sports with Koni’s. That’s why I’m going coilovers. I didn’t think for occasionally tracking the car and not pushing it too hard that I’d need more dampening control etc.
I did some tracks days stock with stock alignment specs and results were very similar.

Besides power mods, I’m going back to the drawing board. I’ve chose the coilovers I’m getting, from there it’s a free for all.

 

[kevinatfms]

I start with spec pressure and adjust from there. 39f/36r. Maybe a couple psi higher.

Alignment is +.2 in the front toe and -1.8 camber. I’d need to find my alignment sheet to see everything else, but those were the only changes I believe from stock.

Springs/struts are very basic. Just H&R Sports with Koni’s. That’s why I’m going coilovers. I didn’t think for occasionally tracking the car and not pushing it too hard that I’d need more dampening control etc.
I did some tracks days stock with stock alignment specs and results were very similar.

Besides power mods, I’m going back to the drawing board. I’ve chose the coilovers I’m getting, from there it’s a free for all.

Pressures might be too high if those are cold starting...

The rear at 36 cold would more than likely be over 40 when hot. That could lead to some snap oversteer you are feeling.

 

[fk8fist]

Pressures might be too high if those are cold starting...

The rear at 36 cold would more than likely be over 40 when hot. That could lead to some snap oversteer you are feeling.

I’m still trying to figure out tire pressures with these cars. I’ve never had a car where tire pressure changes the character of the car so much. Something I love though is how much these cars don’t understeer or push in corners as much as you think they would. It’s quite the opposite actually from my experience so far. Road race season was cut super short this year here though because of the fires.

 

[fk8fist]

Pressures might be too high if those are cold starting...

The rear at 36 cold would more than likely be over 40 when hot. That could lead to some snap oversteer you are feeling.

Whats your opinion on rear camber plates?

 

[Erick_V]

Whats your opinion on rear camber plates?

I got the ones that @Dpro sells and it got me around 2 degrees of camber. Cheap and get the job done. I’ve thrown the car into T6 at Harris Hill around 85-90mph and it stayed planted. Definitely worth it. Don’t worry about tire wear, it hasn’t made a noticeable difference. You don’t have to but get new hub bolts. They’re technically stretch bolts and shouldn’t be reused but I reused them and they didn’t feel like they were going to break when reinstalling.

Link:
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...-nominal-negative-camber-for-your-fist.22474/

 

[kevinatfms]

I have the Dpro versions but have not run them yet. For the price, they are quality pieces.

 

[Fusion Works]

Not to be a downer, but find another car. The Fiesta has too many poor compromises to make a good track car. It will be adequate, but never great. You can't fit enough tire without flaring the car (which kicks you out of a bunch of classes), the rear suspension sucks, the front suspension sucks, the engine is strong, but needs a lot better cooling package, and other "fixes" to be a true race car.
Think hard about where you go with your mods. My S280 bumps me into Street mod in GL, Max3 in SCCA, Probably TT3 or even TT2 in NASA, and there is no way the car will be competitive in those classes. Start with something with better suspension, brakes, engine, trans etc.

Perhaps even find something RWD. (This coming from a guy that has raced FWD cars for almost 20 years.)

That all said, if you insist on going down this path, Chinesium coil overs and other ricer parts ain't gonna do anything but make you said in the end. Chassis bracing does nothing, otherwise Ford would have done it for $5 on the production floor. If you want real chassis stiffness put a cage in the car. Minimum 8pts, check the rules for more.

Dampers, MCS, or custom valved Bilsteins are the only way to fly. You will need spherical bearings in all of the suspension to remove the friction and deflection from the OE rubber bushings. Spring rates done correctly don't need to be super stiff but you better have your valving correct on your dampers. Not some old guys version of "good" either. Get someone that is current on damper tech. (Konis are not the answer)

Deleting the rear seat makes the weight distribution even worse than it is stock. I see nothing about an LSD and alternative gearing.

You can't build a legit road race car and daily drive it. Doesn't happen and is downright dangerous. What you are talking about is building a car that will get murdered by a good driver in a Spec Miata with 140whp. The Fiesta is a great street car, its a shit ton of fun on the street and doing double duty at a few HPDEs, maybe some TT (if you don't mod yourself into a class where it gets murdered), but it will never be a great road race car, because of all the aforementioned issues and others not covered here.