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Case report: Fiesta ST intake valves carbon build up analysis
- Thread starter rbr
- Start date
Thread Starter
#2
Greetings,
I know that there is a very long thread active on this forum on this topic. This being said, this will not be a discussion or a question. This is a case report, as far as i know the first documented on the net for the Fiesta ST. Because of this i thought it warranted a thread post ( however, if mods disagree, i can happily change this into a post within the current thread)The post is made for informational purposes and to help others avoid the same mistakes i did.
Motivation and scientific background:
As we all know, DI engines without redundant injectors all suffer from carbon build up to some degree. The current paradigm based on the posts on this and other Fiesta ST based forums claims that in comparison to VAG products Ecoboost engines do not suffer from carbon build up. This claim is supported by an abundance of VAG related carbon build up problem video's, and a curious absence of Ecoboost focussed one's. This being said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Thus i wanted to validate the current paradigm and test out the following hypotheses:
1: Ecoboost engine's do not suffer from a carbon build up on the intake valves.
2: If build up is present, it is insignificant and does not impact the performance of the engine
3: If no build up is present, could this possible come from the use of the CDC valve cleaner product?
Methodology
First, i would like to apologise for the fact that i did not do the case study on a "clean" subject. With un-clean subject i mean that the car is not completely stock and i have used a CDC valve cleaner product prior to disassembly (2k miles back. However, if you read the results you will see that this did not effect the conclusion in any way).
To test both hypotheses i had to take off the intake. So, that's what i did.
The guinea pig for this test was a 2014 Fiesta ST 1.6 Ecoboost with a bit above 60k miles, stock tune and Airtec intercooler. Full maintenance history. Vehicle has been mainly used by me and by previous owner's for spirited driving and auto cross. I estimate 60% of total miles to be of the highway variety. First
Prior to disassembly vehicle did not show any significant indicators of running rough. The only thing worth mentioning is rough running after sitting for a week+ the first minute.
Results
Bad. Based on the VAG video's the carbon build up on the Fiesta is comparable to the VAG counterpart. I mean, see the pictures.
1: Fords do absolutely suffer from carbon build up. Again, see the pictures
2: Absolutely NOT. After cleaning, i directly noticed that the car ran much smoother and had more "oompf". I think reason why i noted prior to disassembly that the car did not run rough was because it didn't. However, not running rough is definitely not the same as optimum operation. While you could claim that my conclusion can be caused by placebo effect, i would counter with my butt dyno. I definetly noticed a difference.
3: For cleaning valve's, this stuff is useless. Again, see pictures. This is after the treatment. This means that either the valve fouling was ever worse, or it can only help when valve are clean to prevent future build up.
Summary:
While this is only a case study my car clearly shows that fiesta's suffer from carbon build up. And while not causing catastrophic damage, it prevents the engine from running optimally. I would encourage others to research this issue further and possibly expand the literature with case studies of long term usage of catch cans and different types of driving styles.
I know that there is a very long thread active on this forum on this topic. This being said, this will not be a discussion or a question. This is a case report, as far as i know the first documented on the net for the Fiesta ST. Because of this i thought it warranted a thread post ( however, if mods disagree, i can happily change this into a post within the current thread)The post is made for informational purposes and to help others avoid the same mistakes i did.
Motivation and scientific background:
As we all know, DI engines without redundant injectors all suffer from carbon build up to some degree. The current paradigm based on the posts on this and other Fiesta ST based forums claims that in comparison to VAG products Ecoboost engines do not suffer from carbon build up. This claim is supported by an abundance of VAG related carbon build up problem video's, and a curious absence of Ecoboost focussed one's. This being said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Thus i wanted to validate the current paradigm and test out the following hypotheses:
1: Ecoboost engine's do not suffer from a carbon build up on the intake valves.
2: If build up is present, it is insignificant and does not impact the performance of the engine
3: If no build up is present, could this possible come from the use of the CDC valve cleaner product?
Methodology
First, i would like to apologise for the fact that i did not do the case study on a "clean" subject. With un-clean subject i mean that the car is not completely stock and i have used a CDC valve cleaner product prior to disassembly (2k miles back. However, if you read the results you will see that this did not effect the conclusion in any way).
To test both hypotheses i had to take off the intake. So, that's what i did.
The guinea pig for this test was a 2014 Fiesta ST 1.6 Ecoboost with a bit above 60k miles, stock tune and Airtec intercooler. Full maintenance history. Vehicle has been mainly used by me and by previous owner's for spirited driving and auto cross. I estimate 60% of total miles to be of the highway variety. First
Prior to disassembly vehicle did not show any significant indicators of running rough. The only thing worth mentioning is rough running after sitting for a week+ the first minute.
Results
Bad. Based on the VAG video's the carbon build up on the Fiesta is comparable to the VAG counterpart. I mean, see the pictures.
1: Fords do absolutely suffer from carbon build up. Again, see the pictures
2: Absolutely NOT. After cleaning, i directly noticed that the car ran much smoother and had more "oompf". I think reason why i noted prior to disassembly that the car did not run rough was because it didn't. However, not running rough is definitely not the same as optimum operation. While you could claim that my conclusion can be caused by placebo effect, i would counter with my butt dyno. I definetly noticed a difference.
3: For cleaning valve's, this stuff is useless. Again, see pictures. This is after the treatment. This means that either the valve fouling was ever worse, or it can only help when valve are clean to prevent future build up.
Summary:
While this is only a case study my car clearly shows that fiesta's suffer from carbon build up. And while not causing catastrophic damage, it prevents the engine from running optimally. I would encourage others to research this issue further and possibly expand the literature with case studies of long term usage of catch cans and different types of driving styles.
Wow! Looks like there's a catch can in my future.
![[thumb]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumb.gif "Thumbs Up [thumb]"){kind=icon}
This is why the people who make the supplemental Meth/Water systems have their head firmly inserted into their backsides. Yeah, I'm talking about Stratified. Called them and asked of they could add a valve cleaning function to their single injector system and was told they weren't interested.
Years ago I had a Edelbrock Water Vapor Injection system mounted to the carburetor on my 1985 Monte Carlo SS. The purpose for the system was knock suppression and it did that job quite well. It also had a result of keeping pistons, valves, and combustion chambers near spotless. I opened up the original 305 at 180,000 miles out of curiosity when it was replaced with a 400 hp 350 and found that the pistons looked brand new. So I know for an absolute fact that these current systems are fully capable of keeping our valves spotless. I also know the 1 gallon tank for the Edelbrock setup would last for over 700 miles while towing a 5200 lbs. boat and trailer.
Years ago I had a Edelbrock Water Vapor Injection system mounted to the carburetor on my 1985 Monte Carlo SS. The purpose for the system was knock suppression and it did that job quite well. It also had a result of keeping pistons, valves, and combustion chambers near spotless. I opened up the original 305 at 180,000 miles out of curiosity when it was replaced with a 400 hp 350 and found that the pistons looked brand new. So I know for an absolute fact that these current systems are fully capable of keeping our valves spotless. I also know the 1 gallon tank for the Edelbrock setup would last for over 700 miles while towing a 5200 lbs. boat and trailer.
I'd like to see what difference Aux fuel makes, because if the deposits are already caked on there... Would they just come off from the aux fuel? Or once they're caked on they need to be blasted with media to be removed?
I'm at nearly 100k now and curious to know what mine look like, but I just had a newborn and don't necessarily have time to rip my car apart lol. I've been using aux fuel on/off for ~40k miles now.
I'm at nearly 100k now and curious to know what mine look like, but I just had a newborn and don't necessarily have time to rip my car apart lol. I've been using aux fuel on/off for ~40k miles now.
Thread Starter
#19
Carb cleaner. Spray into closed valves, take a smoke break, nylon brush and suck the slurry out. Repeat 5 times. First I used compressed air but learned quickly that even with protection that stuff is so aggressive it burned like hell on my skin. So sucking is best.
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