Cobb AP V3 vs. Mountune MP215

[timboslice]

I'm not talking about the intake kit. just the Tunes.

So before Mountune had warranty approval, you still had to take the car to a dealership for them to uninstall it?

You still have to take your car into the dealership install it... The Ford Racing warranty provision only works if you had it installed at a Ford dealership.

 

[aballphoto]

Sorry, misread your post. Yeah it's a simple diagnostic I believe. I don't think it matters what they can read. If they detect it that can potentially deny a warranty claim or "red flag" your car. There's a leaked flow chart somewhere out there that describes the process.

The answer I am seeking is in the fact that Ford has now allowed "warranty approved" tune options, so it's conceivable that a car can show up with flashes on the ecu, whether active or not and if they are able to tell where the flash originated from. Be it a Cobb, mtune, or dealer installed mtune.

 

[aballphoto]

Again you have to think of the V3 and the mTune differently. The mTune ONLY goes with the intake kit to make up the MP215. This is the only warranty approved ECU tune from Mountune, and must be installed and uninstalled at a dealer for said warranty.

The V3 is made by COBB and is sold by numerous vendors, some with custom tunes already loaded. If you order the V3 from Mountune you get 45 days of custom tuning through data logging and emailing the logs to Randy at Mountune USA. Any of these are detectable by Ford.

You still have to take your car into the dealership install it... The Ford Racing warranty provision only works if you had it installed at a Ford dealership.

I dont know how to say this nicely guys.

Instead of thinking you know the answer, just read my question, and then answer.

I never once asked about warranty validity. I never asked about whether ford can detect one or the other.

I asked, if they can tell the difference between them all. But you wouldn't know that would you.. because you guys have only read about 5 of the words I have written so far.

 

[iLiptiKal]

I dont know how to say this nicely guys.

Instead of thinking you know the answer, just read my question, and then answer.

I never once asked about warranty validity. I never asked about whether ford can detect one or the other.

I asked, if they can tell the difference between them all. But you wouldn't know that would you.. because you guys have only read about 5 of the words I have written so far.

The question you are asking makes no sense. If you are using the V3 then no matter what tune you have, they all use the same software and hardware to install it. This can be detected.

The mTune you would never pay $900 for something you can't uninstall and can only be installed in conjunction with the intake unless you wanted warranty.

 

[StayPuft]

I know what you're getting at. But I don't think you will get a knowledgeable answer because no one has been through specifically what happens when visiting a dealer with A vs B tuner. Sure, people have been to the dealer and had their tune detected. But how an entire network of Ford dealers can recognize your tune as A vs B, installed by C dealer on D date, who knows. It's not like they plug in their scanner and it says WARNING COBB TUNE DETECTED.

I'm sure that if you have an engine failure in NY and you had a mp215 kit installed in PA then that NY dealer will try to contact the dealer you say it was installed at to confirm. Likewise, if engine failure and you lie and say it's mountune they'll figure it out before your ride is fixed.

Ultimately it's just humans working at the dealerships so there won't always be a black and white answer to every question. Bottom line is that the handling of mods is discretionary on a dealer by dealer basis. And no warranty is ever voided, you only run the risk of your warranty claim being denied for whatever repair you need. GTX1,000,000 turbo won't void my warranty claim for sync not working but when i throw a rod through the pan and want coverage they'll be like

 

[aballphoto]

I know what you're getting at. But I don't think you will get a knowledgeable answer because no one has been through specifically what happens when visiting a dealer with A vs B tuner. Sure, people have been to the dealer and had their tune detected. But how an entire network of Ford dealers can recognize your tune as A vs B, installed by C dealer on D date, who knows. It's not like they plug in their scanner and it says WARNING COBB TUNE DETECTED.

I'm sure that if you have an engine failure in NY and you had a mp215 kit installed in PA then that NY dealer will try to contact the dealer you say it was installed at to confirm. Likewise, if engine failure and you lie and say it's mountune they'll figure it out before your ride is fixed.

Ultimately it's just humans working at the dealerships so there won't always be a black and white answer to every question. Bottom line is that the handling of mods is discretionary on a dealer by dealer basis. And no warranty is ever voided, you only run the risk of your warranty claim being denied for whatever repair you need. GTX1,000,000 turbo won't void my warranty claim for sync not working but when i throw a rod through the pan and want coverage they'll be like

This is exactly what I'm getting at. I'm questioning Ford's leg to stand on in denying a warranty claim due to a tune of any sort since they have introduced "warranty safe tunes"

I'd be curious if the different tunes have different signatures on their files.

 

[StayPuft]

This is exactly what I'm getting at. I'm questioning Ford's leg to stand on in denying a warranty claim due to a tune of any sort since they have introduced "warranty safe tunes"

I'd be curious if the different tunes have different signatures on their files.

My initial thought is that it will be different for every dealer unless there's some major pandemic of tuned engine failures. Whether it's detectable as to which tune you used, that's a question for the AP developers. I assume there's no panda or freektune labeled metadata in their custom tunes that are then uploaded through a Cobb ap.

My guess is that if there is an engine/trans/diff failure, and a dealer doesn't just agree to take care of it, they will take certain steps to determine the cause and attribute fault.
Step 1: check for ecu modifications.
Step 2: if found, pull the data in the tune and look at all of the tables etc that have been changed from the stock tune (this is where you'll get your answer).
Step 3: determine whether it is a mountune authorized install.
Step 4a: contact installing dealer and confirm it was installed per spec.
Step 4b: no mountune? dealer no cool? Good luck fighting it.

Then again I have no dog in this fight bc im stock. But when I do, it will probably be the cobb ap. I have over 100,000 trouble free all season miles on previous cars that were tuned with HPtuners and the ecoboost engines have proven to hold up to abuse. So I'm not concerned. It's not like we're looking at replacing an e90/92 S65 engine.

 

[timboslice]

This is exactly what I'm getting at. I'm questioning Ford's leg to stand on in denying a warranty claim due to a tune of any sort since they have introduced "warranty safe tunes"

I'd be curious if the different tunes have different signatures on their files.

Well there's only 1 warranty approved tune option for the FiST: the MP215

The warranty provision only works if you buy the MP215 kit from an official Mountune vendor, get it installed at a dealership and register it with Ford Racing. That means the dealer installs the intake and the mtune with the mp215 map(the only map on it). You then send your Repair Order and the receipt of purchase to Ford Racing to register your MP215.

As far as Ford's leg to stand on, I believe that the diagnostic will detect the tune file (ie. a signature of some sorts). Beyond that, I believe that every ECU flash leaves a breadcrumb and they could always check if you've registered your MP215 kit with Ford Racing.

Does that answer your question?

 

[TyphoonFiST]

So who has what and what is better in over all driveability of the FiST? Noticeable acceleration difference? Worth the money? Etc etc.

 

[Siestarider]

I was running Cobb S3 with Mountune air box, 2j dp and Cobb IC hard parts. I tried custom Panda tunes intended to outperform Cobb S3 but they did not.

With Cobb S3 V201 there was no difference between OEM cat back and 3" MBRP cat back performance wise. Simple time test 7.6 seconds 2500-6500 rpm same for both exhausts. Seems a little weird to me, but multiple logs with both exhausts showed no difference.

When I flashed the new Cobb S3 v220, I was actually getting ready for Cyborg, so had modified the MBRP to be all 3" straight through and remounted it with enough mods to live with. Still working on quieter mods.

Car really likes the newest Cobb tune combination, it dropped 0.4 sec in a 2500-6500 3rd gear pull, now about 7.15 sec. Some of that is surely the 3" exhaust.

Plus Cobb S3 V220 drives better than V201. And according to VD, its comparable to Mountune 230 now power-wise.

I would not take my car to the local Ford Dealer for service. They did not even know how to reset tire sensors the only time I tried to use them. Head of shop then actually tried to convince me Tire Rack had sold me bad sensors and wanted to replace them for some absurd fee.

They have a great parts guy, I buy parts there. I just don't care about the warranty questions some folks are concerned with. If I ever get a valid part failure (0 so far) I will just pick up the parts and install them myself. Our car is surprisingly easy to work on, just need to put some time into it, becomes easier every time you take it apart.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

So buy and airbox and the cobb s3 v220? Just testing the waters here and taking opinions. Was it worth it do you think?

 

[NJBooST]

[MENTION=3563]TyphoonFiST[/MENTION] I went the Mountune route with my FoST and can tell you that you will get similar or better numbers going AP3 vs mTune. The MP tunes are very linear and drivability is the same as stock until you put your foot into it. The benefit to the MP upgrade is that you retain your warranty and it's a set it and forget it tune. You don't have to take logs or monitor. The mTune is used to deliver the calibration. In England the dealers actually have the Mountune calibrations loaded into their in dealership computers, so they don't even get a mTune handset there.
And to the comments above your question, once the car is flashed with the MP calibration the only way to revert to stock is to have the dealer rebuild the PCM. There is no way to flash back to stock using the firmware on the mTune. So they will know that is a Mountune calibration flashed to the vehicle.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I figured that Ford has a way to know if it's a mountune program in the PCM. The other thing I've heard is with the Cobb you can reflash the PCM if you bring it in to the dealer and they could tell the difference. But I guess that is heresay. Was retuning it worth
It? Does it put a smile on your face whenever you drive it. I come from a moates net tuning Era with OBD1 not too much time with OBD2. I wish my truck was OBD2 but I do have FAST xfi for it I have yet to touch. So that brings me out of the stone age of tuning in OBD1.

 

[Siestarider]

I honestly do not know whether Mountune intake is really worth it, or any other intake except 2J, and that is too loud for most folks.

Get Cobb AP and ATR, for $650 you go to the future. Looking back down my mod trail, if I could do only one, that would be it.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

ATR= ACCESS Tuner Racing?

 

[pelotonracer2]

So who has what and what is better in over all driveability of the FiST? Noticeable acceleration difference? Worth the money? Etc etc.

Talk to Adam Brunson at Tune+. You'll thank me later.

 

[bobjob]

if you care about waranty and CARB issues get the 215 otherwise get an AP and a tune.

 

[apex1]

I know I am reviving an old thread here, but it would be helpful for me and perhaps others who have more recently bought their cars. I have read this thread carefully and I still do not know if definitive answer to my question, if there is one. Specifically, if I buy the accessport directly from Cobb and use the OTS Stage 1, I understand that I can uninstall it and my ECU will have it's original OEM tune reinstalled. If I do this and take my car to the dealer, can the dealer detect that I had run a different tune?

 

[alexrex20]

All they can tell is that it has been flashed. Many folks take their car in for warranty with the tune still installed and even the Accessport. If the warranty work is not related to the engine, they shouldn't and usually don't care.

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[CSM]

All they can tell is that it has been flashed. Many folks take their car in for warranty with the tune still installed and even the Accessport. If the warranty work is not related to the engine, they shouldn't and usually don't care.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

This. They can definitely pull up map history for the car. Some dealers care, some don't. Do your homework for your area and geographical location. FoST and Mustang forums are worth browsing to find mod friendly dealers.