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Everything is fast now

Dpro

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#21
@ronmcdon
@skold

I looked long and hard for a CRX to restore about a year ago, slim pickings, couldn't find one. Such great cars. Just too old. However at the same time I got into Honda Insights which are about the same size as the CRX and in many ways the successor though a hybrid car. 1800 lbs, 5 speed, similar shape and handling, both have the 2nd rear window. I drove the two cars back to back (my buddy has an old HF) and they are remarkably similar. If you love CRXs you'd probably really enjoy a G1 Insight. I'm on my 2nd one right now, loving it.

NOT fast. But super fun.

https://public.fotki.com/greentrees2/grey-insight/1615412989853.html]
[/URL]
You did not try to get a CRZ
 


Ford ST

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#22
Here in Oregon we have a "display of speed" law. I had a buddy in college driving a 67 VW Bug, it had the bigger 1600 in it making ~47hp...He took off from a light as hard as he could...going up hill... and got a display of speed ticket. He didnt even get up to the 35mph speed limit, it "sounded" fast with cherry bomb muffler. Never mind he HAD to launch that thing as hard as he could to get UP the hill.

Has a cop ever watched you launch your car into a 4 second 0-60 pass?
Why would I do that in front of a cop?

With that said I don't think they would really care especially on an acceleration ramp to the interstate where you need to do 80 mph not to get ran over.
I do feel sorry that some of y'all live in areas where law enforcement has nothing better to do than to write people tickets. That's not how it works down here.
In my 15 years of driving and I have to drive for my job as well I've only been pulled over twice for speeding. As of today my driving record is spotless.




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Last edited:

Ford ST

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#24
Yeah but what if we put the tires that we have today on them.
I know you know this but not everyone does cars back in that time made more power than they said they did. Not all of them but some definitely did. Just couldn't put the power to the ground.

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jmrtsus

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#26
Yeah but what if we put the tires that we have today on them.
I know you know this but not everyone does cars back in that time made more power than they said they did. Not all of them but some definitely did. Just couldn't put the power to the ground.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
The point is that what was fast then is the same today. 13's.....but now we do it with cars that are heavier, smaller engines providing much better reliability, economy, cleaner exhaust, and a car that stops and handles better plus we will probably survive crashes that an original muscle car would tag your toe. I agree the average car is much quicker, I had an older lady try to take me at a lane merge after a red light. I was surprised she drove like my wife and how quick that damn Camry was, LOL!
 


OP
jeff

jeff

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Thread Starter #28
You did not try to get a CRZ
I drove one, one of the later ones that had more power, with a 6MT. I wanted to like it, but the car was just not very engaging. I love the look. The powertrain was wanting. I was considering buying one till after the test drive. My G1 Insight is so much more enjoyable.
 


Intuit

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#29
I know my stock FiST is not faster than a lot of these larger vehicles but it doesn't stop me from driving it like it is. What's great about it, is can do that pretty much most of the time, and not get murdered at the gas pump and auto-maintenance/repair facility. Same for the 3 second motorcycle.
 


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#30
@ronmcdon
@skold

I looked long and hard for a CRX to restore about a year ago, slim pickings, couldn't find one. Such great cars. Just too old. However at the same time I got into Honda Insights which are about the same size as the CRX and in many ways the successor though a hybrid car. 1800 lbs, 5 speed, similar shape and handling, both have the 2nd rear window. I drove the two cars back to back (my buddy has an old HF) and they are remarkably similar. If you love CRXs you'd probably really enjoy a G1 Insight. I'm on my 2nd one right now, loving it.

NOT fast. But super fun.
Yeah, back when those came out, I was pissed because I was young thought they were a crappy, not cool replacement for the CRX and maybe I was still correct. However, being more mature now, I can appreciate how fun they could be and who cares how un-cool they may be. If I remember correctly, those were going for a pretty penny when the gas prices spiked about 10 years ago.
 


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#31
I think this is a good example of the old adage "when everything is special, nothing is." When everything is fast, nothing feels special anymore. I think this is a big part of why prices on '90's stuff, especially Japanese cars, have really exploded in recent years. These cars offer something you can't get anymore: a sense of occasion. Winding a K20 with all of 160 (depending on model) horses out to its 7,000+ RPM redline won't get you anywhere in a hurry, but it's an experience that doesn't exist in new cars anymore.

Just more reason for me to never let go of my Miata. It and the BRZ are the last bastions of analog cars with modest power, and a sense of occasion.
 


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jeff

jeff

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Thread Starter #32
Yeah, back when those came out, I was pissed because I was young thought they were a crappy, not cool replacement for the CRX and maybe I was still correct. However, being more mature now, I can appreciate how fun they could be and who cares how un-cool they may be. If I remember correctly, those were going for a pretty penny when the gas prices spiked about 10 years ago.
The G1 Insight is much like the CRX, it has less torque but it is also weights considerably less. They go 0-30 in around 3 seconds in 1st gear. 30-60 takes a bit longer but the feeling of speed is there especially in 1st and 2nd gear. It's not a CRX but very much has the soul; in some ways, it's better.

I think this is a good example of the old adage "when everything is special, nothing is." When everything is fast, nothing feels special anymore. I think this is a big part of why prices on '90's stuff, especially Japanese cars, have really exploded in recent years. These cars offer something you can't get anymore: a sense of occasion. Winding a K20 with all of 160 (depending on model) horses out to its 7,000+ RPM redline won't get you anywhere in a hurry, but it's an experience that doesn't exist in new cars anymore.

Just more reason for me to never let go of my Miata. It and the BRZ are the last bastions of analog cars with modest power, and a sense of occasion.
This is right what I was trying to communicate. The FiST, ND Miata, BR-Z, all offer that sense of occasion as you call it.
 


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#33
Somewhere along the way, the car industry collectively decided that cars should be made for numbers and not experiences. The most horsepower. The most cornering g's. The best fuel economy. The longest electric range. So on and so forth. These focuses became so singular that the experience of driving got lost along the way.

I think part of it is just that numbers are easier to sell to the simple consumer. Experiences are a lot more difficult (though they've definitely tried). Today the Miata and BRZ have marketing budgets of about zero. They're for people that know what they are and what they want, and there's no point in spending money marketing to those people, or so the perception likely goes. Power is also cheap. Handling and weight savings are expensive, before you even consider how hard they are to market. The average consumer will just see that the Miata 'only' makes 181 horsepower, then go buy a Mustang (probably not even a GT).

It's definitely a weird time for enthusiasts. I see a Honda Civic Si sell for $50k, and I understand it. This experience is worth a ton of money to some people, and they're willing to pay it. Cars like that won't exist ever again, because the internal combustion engine is on its way out. I get why automakers aren't trying to bring it back. Still I have to believe that there's a way to create the spiritual successor to these cars in an EV-only future, but automakers are so entrenched in the way of the spec sheet that no one seems to be really trying.
 


Intuit

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#34
.............. Cars like that won't exist ever again, because the internal combustion engine is on its way out. I get why automakers aren't trying to bring it back. .........
The torque is REAL. Things I won't ever miss with regard to ICE are the noise, heat, vibration, smell and fluids maintenance. In order to really compete with ICE, they'll need to figure out a universal reloadable battery system that you can just swap at a station and keep going. (ironically that idea could be the return of fuel station attendant as any battery is going to be heavy) The battery packs could be charged in or out of the vehicle. Protecting them in a crash would be the hard part but figure out what neutralizes them and encase the cells in that. Cell(s) ruptures it immediately makes contact with the neutralizing agents.
 


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#35
First car was an 89' lemans. It maybe had 50 hp when it decided to work. It was zippy because tin can deathtrap. Except when it wasnt. No power anything.
Second car was an 88' sunturd. Gained power steering and .1 of a litre, but it was slower and porkier. Somehow.

3rd car, 2003 focus zx3. Gained a second cam, 130hp crank, power amenities, and independent suspension. Car felt light and zippy like my first car. Spent way too much doing an svtf powertrain conversion to gain 40 more hp and another gear. ( i could have turbocharged the base zetec and got more) but the car punched way above its weight.

Fiesta is the fastest car ive owned so far.
Ha. I had an 88 Lemans. Same POS.
 


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#37
Ha. I had an 88 Lemans. Same POS.
My first car was a '66 LeMans 326 2bbl. Powerglide ragtop. LOL

TOTALLY different animal than the Opel based design deals being discussed here.

IF GM would have sent over the GSi 16V version, it would not have been quite the POS everyone is complaining about. [wink]
 


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#39
The torque is REAL. Things I won't ever miss with regard to ICE are the noise, heat, vibration, smell and fluids maintenance. In order to really compete with ICE, they'll need to figure out a universal reloadable battery system that you can just swap at a station and keep going. (ironically that idea could be the return of fuel station attendant as any battery is going to be heavy) The battery packs could be charged in or out of the vehicle. Protecting them in a crash would be the hard part but figure out what neutralizes them and encase the cells in that. Cell(s) ruptures it immediately makes contact with the neutralizing agents.
I don't think ICE ia going away as quickly as some predict. I'm also hopeful that Porsche's research info synthetic fuel translates into a combustion engine that burns as clean as an EV.

I'm not opposed to electric. I'd happily add a Taycan into the garage, but I don't want that as the only option. And I trust that as battery tech improves they will get considerably lighter.

Tesla piloted a program to swap batteries at select stations years ago. The take rate was insanely low so they stopped pursuing it. For me, the better solution is faster charging and a better infrastructure.

As for fast, I tend to agree. Yes the idea that everything is fast is hyperbole, but most are fast. And more specifically, sedans, vans, etc... are fast. The smaller engines. Inclusion of forced induction.

For me it's the entirety of the experience. I drive my FiST more than my GT4. The GT4 is a better experience. It's "faster". The ride is better. The noise is better. The steering is exceptional. The balance is incredible. The FiST is arguably just as fun if not more fun in the right environment, on the right road, and costs considerably less to run and maintain.

There is always more that goes into the equation than just raw speed. I ride motorcycles and I have as much fun on my Grom as I do the S1000RR.
 




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