Feisty the "Family Car"

[M-Sport fan]

Got serious and finally did a brake (and clutch) flush with ATE200 brake fluid. Added stainless lines while I was at it. There's a slight difference, but very subtle and could just as well be the new fluid rather than the brake lines. Ran 2 whole liters of fluid through the system.

Ended up buying a power bleeder, and making 4 of my own brake bleeder bottles with 1/4" silicone tubing, some juice bottles from work, some cheap 1/4" PVDF check valves, and some silicone bottle clip rings I found on ebay, with a little wire to hang them. Ended up being a huge help since to do it right, you need to bleed with Forscan.

My neighbor gave me some surplus surgical drapes that I cut up and put to good use here to keep from spilling brake fluid everywhere.

Word for the wise, if you do a pretty thorough brake flush by cycling the ABS unit, hook the car battery on a charger. The ABS unit draws a ton of current, and if the accessory voltage Forscan is seeing drops below 10V, it aborts the test. I'm glad I had the check valves in the bleeders, as the last flush stopped in the middle!

Have you driven it hard enough on the street to get into the ABS or the other nannies yet?

I ask since I am wondering if the called for need of a DOT4 LV fluid is all just total BS or not, and I would prefer to use the Typ200 over even the great, also long lasting like the Ate claims to be (but lower wet and dry boiling points, of course), Bosch LV fluid I used for the last (and first for this car) full brake/clutch fluid flush (but not with the Forscan cycling activation though, as the self employed, individual mechanic I went to did not have that program at all ).

Of course, if you are going to do open track sessions you actually want all of the nannies as disabled as possible (yes, many of us even on the street want the same as well, it seems), so if the more viscous fluid somehow helps accomplish that by either defeating, or lessening them, all the better for that scenario.

Did you use the (factory manual suggested) reverse bleed flush method for the clutch, or a reservoir down flush method?

 

[SteveS]

Did you use OEM windshield trim or aftermarket? The aftermarket ones say they are made of ABS, which is a hard plastic usually, not rubbery.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Have you driven it hard enough on the street to get into the ABS or the other nannies yet?

I ask since I am wondering if the called for need of a DOT4 LV fluid is all just total BS or not, and I would prefer to use the Typ200 over even the great, also long lasting like the Ate claims to be (but lower wet and dry boiling points, of course), Bosch LV fluid I used for the last (and first for this car) full brake/clutch fluid flush (but not with the Forscan cycling activation though, as the self employed, individual mechanic I went to did not have that program at all ).

Of course, if you are going to do open track sessions you actually want all of the nannies as disabled as possible (yes, many of us even on the street want the same as well, it seems), so if the more viscous fluid somehow helps accomplish that by either defeating, or lessening them, all the better for that scenario.

Did you use the (factory manual suggested) reverse bleed flush method for the clutch, or a reservoir down flush method?

I did take the car out and give it a good run on Friday dropping my daughter off at a camp, and have not gotten the brakes to fade. However, I do *always* drive with the ESC off, (but with the Cobb TC in the tune that just pulls timing). On the street I’m usually barely tickling the ABS, and you don’t brake that hard if you’re at all in proximity to the speed limit, especially on good tires. The torque vectoring hasn’t been a problem thus far.

I did finally book a trackday at Laguna Seca for April. So we’ll see how the brakes do then.

Low viscosity fluid may be easier on the ABS unit at very cold temperatures. That said, brake fluid loses viscosity at temperature just like motor oil, so if you’re actually pushing hard (like on the track), LV fluid might actually get too thin.

The difference between “normal” and LV fluid is 1400 vs 700 mm^2/s at -40C. But by -20C, normal viscosity fluid will have already dropped below 700. Room temp viscosity is in the 5-10mm^2/sec range. Min at 100C is 1.5. Fancy “race” fluids maintain 3+ viscosity at 100C.

So unless it gets shockingly cold where you are, it’s not a big deal. If you’re worried about it, you can use any DOT4 SL6 fluid, or even a DOT 5.1 fluid (cold viscosity 900, or 750 for “5.1 ESP”). In California, I’d say it pretty much doesn’t matter.

Its hard to find viscosity plots vs temp, but I found one to illustrate how sharply viscosity drops.

Source: https://tanikawayuka.co.jp/eng/advance/brakefluid/

Also - specs for various DOT fluids: https://wiki.anton-paar.com/us-en/automotive-brake-fluids/

 

[Dialcaliper]

Did you use OEM windshield trim or aftermarket? The aftermarket ones say they are made of ABS, which is a hard plastic usually, not rubbery.

I managed to find a good deal on OEM Motorcraft trim pieces on eBay of all places. It seems like lots of dealer parts shops now list stuff there and shipping tends to be faster and easier.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I did take the car out and give it a good run on Friday dropping my daughter off at a camp, and have not gotten the brakes to fade. However, I do *always* drive with the ESC off, (but with the Cobb TC in the tune that just pulls timing). On the street I’m usually barely tickling the ABS, and you don’t brake that hard if you’re at all in proximity to the speed limit, especially on good tires. The torque vectoring hasn’t been a problem thus far.

I did finally book a trackday at Laguna Seca for April. So we’ll see how the brakes do then.

Low viscosity fluid may be easier on the ABS unit at very cold temperatures. That said, brake fluid loses viscosity at temperature just like motor oil, so if you’re actually pushing hard (like on the track), LV fluid might actually get too thin.

The difference between “normal” and LV fluid is 1400 vs 700 mm^2/s at -40C. But by -20C, normal viscosity fluid will have already dropped below 700. Room temp viscosity is in the 5-10mm^2/sec range. Min at 100C is 1.5. Fancy “race” fluids maintain 3+ viscosity at 100C.

So unless it gets shockingly cold where you are, it’s not a big deal. If you’re worried about it, you can use any DOT4 SL6 fluid, or even a DOT 5.1 fluid (cold viscosity 900, or 750 for “5.1 ESP”). In California, I’d say it pretty much doesn’t matter.

Its hard to find viscosity plots vs temp, but I found one to illustrate how sharply viscosity drops.

Source: https://tanikawayuka.co.jp/eng/advance/brakefluid/

Also - specs for various DOT fluids: https://wiki.anton-paar.com/us-en/automotive-brake-fluids/

This car will likely never see an open track day while I own it, so the Castrol SRFs and almost equivalent (except for wet boiling points) Endless, Motul, Wilwood, etc., etc. full-on race fluids are totally useless to me.
Especially with how much more often they must be bled and/or flushed, even under exclusively street conditions, due to their short term hygroscopic chemistries (and the fact that I must go somewhere and pay someone to do this for me because, yeah you guessed it; HOA).

But the Ate Typ200 might be a workable 'compromise' for me since I do not live in the deep freezer of International Falls, or within the Arctic Circle, and it is also a 'long drain, long(er) term, anti-hygroscopic' brake fluid, like the Bosch currently in the systems.

How does the clutch feel with the new fluid?
Is it a startling, 'night and day' difference in the; pedal feel, take-up, release, return, etc., or simply within the range of plain old new vs. totally worn out, used up fluid?
Did you ever have any pedal sticking to the floor at all before the change (especially in very torrid weather, which I know is not common there in NoCal), and if so is it totally gone now??

 

[Dialcaliper]

Never had sticking to the floor problems with clutch or brakes, and I’d say it’s more of an “old vs new” feeling rather than anything dramatic, but I’m also not sure what fluid the previous owner had put in.

I do have a master cylinder “squeak” most times I release the brake pedal, which hasn’t gone away, so I’m not sure what that’s from. I greased the pivot points, but the noise sounds like it’s coming from through the firewall.

If you’re worried about cold and viscosity, you could try ATE or other “Super DOT 5.1” fluids like Motul 5.1 that are lower viscosity and higher wet boiling point (180C). Not quite as high as “racing” brake fluids or even ATE200, but better than typical DOT 3/4/5.1 fluids

 

[Dialcaliper]

Almost done with the maintainance before I head out for a track day. Swapped the rear pads, nothing special, just new OEM summer pads. Replaced the rear ABS sensors while I was in there.

One lesson I did learn. When you’re retracting the caliper piston with the parking brake, just rotating the piston clockwise doesn’t really do anything. Likewise, just compressing it with a clamp also doesn’t really work. But somehow, you need to simultaneously rotate and press in the piston and then it just slides back easily!

 

[BadShot]

Almost done with the maintainance before I head out for a track day. Swapped the rear pads, nothing special, just new OEM summer pads. Replaced the rear ABS sensors while I was in there.

One lesson I did learn. When you’re retracting the caliper piston with the parking brake, just rotating the piston clockwise doesn’t really do anything. Likewise, just compressing it with a clamp also doesn’t really work. But somehow, you need to simultaneously rotate and press in the piston and then it just slides back easily!

Disc Brake Pad and Caliper Service Tool Kit, 11-Piece

This tool (or any of the hundreds just like it) make short work of that task.

 

[Dialcaliper]

After owning the car for almost 3 years now, I finally got it out for a track day at Laguna Seca!

This really is a great little car - didn’t feel nearly as outclassed as I expected in a novice group that was almost entirely late model Porsches, C8 Vettes and a few Miata’s sprinkled in and actually ended up moving up the grid a bit.

In any case, I had an absolute blast and the car performed really well. The only things I noticed were that I did find the fade limit of the stock brakes and they were smoking after the sessions. Had to ease up a little there but I told myself I should actually find the limit before I start seriously considering bigger brakes and not just switching pads. The stock pads were better than I expected though, even after giving it about 6/10 of the beans for 6 sessions over the day (admittedly at cool temperatures <70F, with ESC off of course). To be clear, any to get any more serious, some real pads are needed, but it was enough to not worry that much for a first day at the track.

That and the car felt a tiny bit squirmy coming over the rise at the end of the main straight at ~100mph

 

[Dialcaliper]

My (very excited) daughter caught a decent video:

Something about the way the I’ve got the ST200 intake plumbed up (brake duct to a bell mouth in the front fog light space, enclosed by the skid plate) plus the velossatech big mouth seems to produce an extremely loud high pitched suction sound. It doesn’t sound nearly that loud from the cabin. Not sure if it screams more “F-35 fighter jet” or “Dyson vacuum cleaner”. Maybe it’s crying out for a turbo upgrade or something. That or the bellmouth is too close to the bumper cover (vacuum cleaner noise)

View: https://youtu.be/UHwziVLusW8


View: https://youtu.be/ADwbAMNEGEE

 

[Dialcaliper]

Made it out to another HoD trackday a couple weeks ago at Sonoma raceway. I think I like it a lot better than Laguna Seca. Definitely more challenging to drive and a better course for the Fiesta.

Washed up the car before the trackday. I’ve been using using a much streamlined wash method that first better with my free time. Optimum No-Rinse in a gallon of distilled water. Buff dry with microfiber and a squirt of Opti-Seal as a drying aid+protectant. Seems to work great.

Was almost done when I had an epiphany. I can wash the door jambs, door sills and the inside metal of the doors without getting the inside of the car wet. Mind Blown!

 

[rallytaff]

Sonoma, formerly Sears Point has great memories for me. Way back when I was sent there by the SoCal Gas Co to assess my driving skills to be the company president's chauffeur/bodyguard. Four great days testing your skills to the limit. On the last night, we had the chase! We had to wait until it was completely dark and I was sent out while the instructor lay lurking somewhere waiting for me to appear. When I spotted him, the chase was on! After about 5 mins he called me in and said, "You're going to be a hard one to catch". I responded, "When you're a terrorist trying to kill me, you can bet your life on it". A few minutes later, we did the same thing again. I had a rental Camaro V6 and he was driving a Lincoln V8. He was good but not good enough. His objective was to overtake me and cut me off, jump out of his car and touch mine meaning I was dead! Every time I came down the main straight under the bridge, he went to overtake. When he was level with me I was on the brakes and doing a handbrake turn. He was still slowing down! After about 15 mins it was over, I had won! I ended up getting a 3.9 and he stated that no-one ever got a 5. I also got a 3.9 for the rest of the course. As a bonus at the end, we had the pleasure of meeting Bob Bondurant, a racing legend.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Washed up the car before the trackday. I’ve been using using a much streamlined wash method that first better with my free time. Optimum No-Rinse in a gallon of distilled water. Buff dry with microfiber and a squirt of Opti-Seal as a drying aid+protectant. Seems to work great.

Is the ONR safe to use on a dry car (no pre-wetting/rinse with just water) with much tree pollen on it?

Or do you just not have that lime green sh*t all over your rides out there at this time of year (mine currently looks more Green Envy than Magnetic ).

 

[Dialcaliper]

Is the ONR safe to use on a dry car (no pre-wetting/rinse with just water) with much tree pollen on it?

Or do you just not have that lime green sh*t all over your rides out there at this time of year (mine currently looks more Green Envy than Magnetic ).

It’s supposed to be safe on dry cars, even in direct sun. If it’s really filthy, a pre-rinse or even on occasional pre-cleaner helps, but not required. The technique is a little different than your standard wash and scrub. Do it panel-by-panel, just a couple swipes. The distilled water really helps with spotting. At first I thought it was silly spending money for a gallon of water to wash the car, then I realized the soaps cleaners and sealant used probably cost way more than that.

This is honestly the most helpful video I came across. I don’t do it exactly the same way, but a lot of the tips are really useful. You don’t have to use the pre-cleaner he uses unless the car is really filthy. I usually get by with about 3 microfiber towels to dry the car and they’re clean enough to run through the washing machine (trying to use just one towel gets overly saturated). If the car is really filthy you can keep an extra wash mitt to change out halfway through

View: https://youtu.be/Sqj0H8LDqoI


This is the drying aid trick (dry and coat in one step) as demonstrated by an overly enthusiastic company rep.

View: https://youtu.be/K1znvuIFfcE

 

[Dialcaliper]

Two small post-track day items.

First item of business was doing something about the vacuum cleaner noise in the videos above. I like a little intake noise as much as the next guy, but I’m not keen on obnoxiously loud. Ordered an OEM ST200 duct hose from Whoosh, and swapped out the brake duct/bellmouth set up I had previously. Noise is now slightly subdued to a more pleasant level. I’m now convinced that the felted “porous” material Ford used had nothing to do with shedding water and everything to do with muffling sound to avoid the loud intake shriek.

Since changing the rear springs to the coilover setup, everything has been great but I noticed that over very specific bumps, the tail felt like it was kicking up in the air. My suspicion was that my tender springs had too much preload, because I struggled to get the springs in even with the beam lowered as much as I could. Theory being that either the force profile stays too high shoving the rear in the air, or having a momentary discontinuity between force and no-force whenever there’s a brief wheel lift on rough surfaces. It also manifested itself as the car lifting the tail up quite a lot under hard braking.

To fix this, I switched out my 5” 100lb Swift tenders for some 5” 50lb Eibach tenders. Didn’t opt to stay with Swift because their 50lb tenders are 6”, requiring more compression and I was worried I’d be back where I started. Also the Eibachs had the same compressed “block height” as the Swift, so no need to readjust ride height.

Long story short, the problem seems to have gone away! Lesson learned, too much preload can affect handling, just as too little (like zero rate tenders) can.

 

[M-Sport fan]

What are you going to use as an inlet for the OEM ST 200 hose, and where will it pick up the outside air??

Mine is just sitting inside the bumper area behind the fog light currently, but eventually I want to connect it to a duct in the factory air dam/cooling aid thing at the back edge of the bumper.

Of course my Skid Plate Guy bash plate will prevent that from being used, IF I ever have reason (working ARA rallies like I used to 2-3 times a year, IF they ever again decide to hold even one in the Mid-Atlantic, or Northeast going forward ) to install it again.

 

[Dialcaliper]

What are you going to use as an inlet for the OEM ST 200 hose, and where will it pick up the outside air??

Mine is just sitting inside the bumper area behind the fog light currently, but eventually I want to connect it to a duct in the factory air dam/cooling aid thing at the back edge of the bumper.

Of course my Skid Plate Guy bash plate will prevent that from being used, IF I ever have reason (working ARA rallies like I used to 2-3 times a year, IF they ever again decide to hold even one in the Mid-Atlantic, or Northeast going forward ) to install it again.

I did the same even with the bellmouth, run to the area behind the fog light which gets plenty of airflow (including from the slots in the front of the wheelwell which somehow doesn’t accumulate debris in there). I thought about cutting a hole in the insert next to the fog light, but haven’t yet decided to cut holes in the bumper, and am also now 100% convinced it will actually gain anything other than look cool

 

[Dialcaliper]

Okay, its time for one of those "I wish I knew about this before" moments

For a little while now, the steering has been a bit darty, which I chalked up to the zero toe in my latest alignment. But I've started realizing that sometimes I randomly get a pull to one side, almost like my camber is off. But it sometimes goes away, and sometimes randomly pulls in the opposite direction. Happens most often shortly after startup, but things have always felt a little squirrelly under acceleration and braking, ever since I got the car.

But, I started wondering if it was something electronic. I was searching around, and came across some random posts like this one on Ford's "adaptive learning" and something called "drift pull compensation" in EPAS steering systems.

After searching how to reset on the Fiesta it and coming up with only the Ford factory service software demos and Forscan to reset on the PSCM (power steering module) for the FoST and other cars and how you're supposed to reset it after changing your battery (for some inexplicable reason), and not figuring it out, I noticed this service procedure in Forscan, on the PCM called vaguely "Reset all adaptations". Given the centralized nature of the Fiesta control system, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I decided that since I've been through something like 2 battery changes, 5 suspension swaps and 8-10 different DIY alignments (including some where I didn't get things quite right and had to redo) since owning the car, that its quite possible it's learned some bad habits. And since it's an adaptive system, the worst thing that could happen is that everything gets reset, not just the steering algorithms. I decided to give it a try.

Wow. All of a sudden the steering is precise, no pulls or nervousness and the car tracks straight as an arrow on the freeway! It also seems to have reset the ECU's octane learning on the tune, and probably a bunch of other stuff, but I am one seriously pleased customer! I have another trackday coming up, and I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how the car does, especially with the "booty shake" I was getting under heavy braking.

Be advised that an extended license purchase of Forscan is required for this service procedure (my previous year's one had expired), but so worth it, especially if you're experiencing any steering weirdness.

 

[foodtruck]

Interesting, so then adaptations persist somewhere in non-volatile memory and don't go away when battery is disconnected for some time?